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Residential real estate values go down in Poland, September 2011


peterweg 36 | 2,315    
27 Sep 2011  #1
Residential real estate values go down in Poland

According to a report by oferty.net and information obtained from analysts at Open Finance, prices of residential real estate on Poland's secondary market went down in many cities in in August.

Values in Gdynia and Lublin decreased by about 2 percent compared to July levels, to zł.6,128 per sqm and zł.5,134 per sqm, respectively, Rzeczpospolita wrote. In Warsaw, prices also went down by 1.2 percent, reaching an average of zł.8,811 per sqm.

Poznań, on the other hand, noted a slight appreciation in residential housing values, with prices going up by 0.4 percent in August compared to July, to an average level of zł.5,779 per square meter.

wbj.pl/article-56239-residential-real-estate-values-go-down-in-poland.html
pip 10 | 1,661    
27 Sep 2011  #2
my husband just spoke at a real estate conference in Sopot. He has learned that in residential what is selling are flats that are around 35 m2.
PWEI 3 | 612    
27 Sep 2011  #3
in residential what is selling are flats that are around 35 m2.

The research I'm seeing is that it's more 40 to 45 that is selling best. It seems that location is key right now (people are now more willing to travel a little bit further in order to get flats which are a little bit cheaper).
pip 10 | 1,661    
27 Sep 2011  #4
I would guess you are correct. I worked with a developer just outside of Warsaw who split his 80 m2 flats into two smaller ones because the big ones were too hard to sell.
Wroclaw Boy    
27 Sep 2011  #5
He has learned that in residential what is selling are flats that are around 35 m2.

The below 45 m2 have been selling like hot cakes for the last 6 years, its nothing new.
PWEI 3 | 612    
27 Sep 2011  #6
The difference is that there is still demand for that kind of property but that the demand for 70-80 m2 flats has dropped (and the demand for large luxury flats has dropped even more).
milky 13 | 1,657    
27 Sep 2011  #7
He has learned that in residential what is selling are flats that are around 35 m2.

How can people live in such tiny apartments,is there no law in relation to average size in Poland. Birdcages for Smurfs.

The difference is that there is still demand for that kind of property

'Demand' is the wrong word. All they can afford is ..........., would be a better description of the situation.
flats that are around 35 m2.
My bedroom is bigger than this.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,653    
27 Sep 2011  #8
How can people live in such tiny apartments,is there no law in relation to average size in Poland. Birdcages for Smurfs.

Uh, if you're a single person or young newly married couple, what do you need much bigger for?

I know plenty of people who live in smaller apartments in good locations rather than large apartments further away - not least because larger apartments incur much higher administration costs, let alone travel time.

'Demand' is the wrong word. All they can afford is ..........., would be a better description of the situation.
flats that are around 35 m2.
My bedroom is bigger than this.

Suuure, Mark.
JonnyM 11 | 2,622    
27 Sep 2011  #9
My bedroom is bigger than this.

If you had to pay for it yourself, I suspect it would be much smaller, Mark.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,315    
27 Sep 2011  #10
I live/lived in a 40m apartment in London, no problem. I've often had four people staying there. Perfectly do able.

The situation in Nice or the Alps (16m studio's) or Honk Kong (2m2 room) show what people are capable of.
pip 10 | 1,661    
27 Sep 2011  #11
If it is organized properly you can live in it. I lived in a 19 m2 apt before.
Avalon 4 | 1,068    
27 Sep 2011  #12
My bedroom is bigger than this.

Exactly, you want a mansion and somebody else to pay for it. Take out a Somali citizenship, have six kids with you (birth certs not required) and register with any inner city council, no problem. A seven bedroom house will be yours in 12 hours. You might have to wait a day or two for the 50" television and the car.
beckski 12 | 1,619    
27 Sep 2011  #13
my husband just spoke at a real estate conference in Sopot

Does he believe the values will continue to dive downward?
PWEI 3 | 612    
27 Sep 2011  #14
I know plenty of people who live in smaller apartments in good locations rather than large apartments further away - not least because larger apartments incur much higher administration costs, let alone travel time.

Me, for example: my place is only 50 metres but it's only me and the cats most of the time and I can walk to work in ten minutes (takes at least 15 to drive at rush hour).
scottie1113 7 | 899    
27 Sep 2011  #15
Me, for example: my place is only 50 metres but it's only me and the cats most of the time and I can walk to work in ten minutes

My place is also 50m but it only takes me five minutes to walk to work. When I think about the houses and condos I owned in the US, I think about all the uncessesarily wasted space.
milky 13 | 1,657    
28 Sep 2011  #16
what do you need much bigger for?

You might want to swing a cat.

If you had to pay for it yourself, I suspect it would be much smaller, Mark.

Who the are you?? and do you know me?

Suuure, Mark.

????? Dell do you still think I'm that American guy???????? really??
Anyhow, looks like there is no doubt that property is going only one direction,DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN
PWEI 3 | 612    
28 Sep 2011  #17
milky
You might want to swing a cat.

I've got three cats thanks.

milky
Anyhow, looks like there is no doubt that property is going only one direction,DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWN

Yes, and if it keeps going down at current rates for a few decades, I'll have lost money on my flat.
pip 10 | 1,661    
28 Sep 2011  #18
my husband just spoke at a real estate conference in Sopot
Does he believe the values will continue to dive downward?

My husband is in commercial which is a completely different thing. But- having said that- he basically thinks that the market is leveling out. The previous prices were inflated and a lot of developers made big bucks- now that the market is saturated and it is more difficult to obtain a loan- developers are having to lower their prices. This isn't a bubble but leveling out.
Midas 1 | 571    
28 Sep 2011  #19
The below 45 m2 have been selling like hot cakes for the last 6 years, its nothing new.

^^ This.
milky 13 | 1,657    
28 Sep 2011  #20
This isn't a bubble but leveling out.

You mean that there is going to be a soft landing.
PWEI 3 | 612    
28 Sep 2011  #21
In the sensible sectors and areas prices have already leveled out.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,315    
29 Sep 2011  #22
So you have a time machine or a crystal ball?

Give me the numbers for the lottery will you, my wife is very depressed about missing out on the 50million
milky 13 | 1,657    
29 Sep 2011  #23
prices have already leveled out.

ahahahahhhhhhhah
cms 9 | 1,287    
29 Sep 2011  #24
A lot of nonsense being spouted by the usual suspects, most of whom seem unable to overcome their personal animus against Milky. Nobody would choose to live in such a small flat long term if they could afford bigger. In fact it appears we are going to go full circle to the 35 sqm flats with 3 generations in that I visited on my first trip to Poland in 92.

Comparisons with Nice and Hong Kong are nonsense. Nice is a beautiful place with beautiful food, beautiful climate and ocean views (pity about the stony beach). Hong Kong is not one of the nicest places going but in the Chinese speaking world it is the best place to earn a living and there are lots of Chinese.

There is a huge difference between 35 sqm and 50 sqm - those who are saying they are fine with 50m are probably right. But lop 15m off that and you take away your bedroom - now how does it feel ? Want to watch TV while your wife has an early night ? tough because the lounge is now the bedroom. Want to get up early and have breakfast watching the news ? tough because your wife is asleep. Want your parents to stay ?

Once kids arrive it is even worse - want to give your missus an evening to remember ? very easy with the cot next to you and the nappies piled up in the corner of the lounge/bedroom/dining room/nursery.

I once rented a 20 sqm flat and occasionally my girlfriend would stay but this was in London in my mid 20s and I knew that it was somehow a transitory time in my life - I spent most of my time at work or doing exams, rarely needed to cook at home and was happy with a shower rather than a bath. The idea that I would buy such a place would never cross my mind ! And single people are not the core home-buying demographic - they want mobility and flexibility rather than debt and weekends at Ikea.

I cannot be bothered to discuss the semantic differences between a levelling out and a bubble but for sure prices will continue to fall to a level where they are affordable for average earners. If you want statistics and links read yesterdays GW as there was a long article on it covering all major towns.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,315    
29 Sep 2011  #25
Nice is a beautiful place with beautiful food, beautiful climate and ocean views (pity about the stony beach).

Pay for a private beach and get away from the stones and peasants :)

The city is full of dog s*** though, never seen so much of it.

There is a huge difference between 35 sqm and 50 sqm

My flat is 40m and its got a bedroom, living room (20m2) and large bathroom.
PWEI 3 | 612    
29 Sep 2011  #26
peterweg
So you have a time machine or a crystal ball?

Neither are needed to see what has been happening recently and what is happening now.

But I'm sure we will need a time machine in order to go far enough forwards in time to see you finally produce the list of things that need to be done when building a house and the costs thereof.

cms
for sure prices will continue to fall to a level where they are affordable for average earners.

No they won't. They will settle at the level where demand meets supply.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,315    
29 Sep 2011  #27
But I'm sure we will need a time machine in order to go far enough forwards in time to see you finally produce the list of things that need to be done when building a house and the costs thereof.

Until I pay off the loan for the land in two years, the road gets built and the planning permission given I don't even have to start looking at building the houses.

No they won't. They will settle at the level where demand meets supply.

Same thing really.Where and when doesn't matter to 99% of the population, they can stay put and save.
PWEI 3 | 612    
29 Sep 2011  #28
peterweg
Same thing really.Where and when doesn't matter to 99% of the population, they can stay put and save.

Yes, because renting is such a good investment. I wish that I had continued to rent for the last decade and a bit: that way I could have carried on paying rent instead of paying pretty much exactly the same amount in mortgage repayments and having a flat with no mortgage at all on it anymore.
OP peterweg 36 | 2,315    
29 Sep 2011  #29
Yes, because renting is such a good investment.

LOL, classic idiot.
PWEI 3 | 612    
29 Sep 2011  #30
peterweg
LOL, classic idiot.

Exactly: I could have stayed in a slightly smaller flat 500 metres from where I now live and carried on paying about a couple of grand a month in rent or I could have got a mortgage and bought a place paying the same amount per month. Obviously I would have been far better off doing what you suggested, i.e. stay put and save. If I'd done that I would have whatever I had saved. Instead all I have is a flat in central Warsaw and the memory of a mortgage. Do remind me to come to you next time I want financial advice.


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