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Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU


Torq 26 | 2,434
1 Jan 2020 #121
Erm... I was referring to rather well known (or so I thought) words of Woody Allen about Wagner and invading Poland. No?

Never mind...

*sighs*
Spike31 2 | 973
2 Jan 2020 #122
Since 2004 Poland is richer, safer, more investment, lower inflation

Economic progress in a normal thing which happens to all normal economies unless they are run by commies and hardcore socialists like in Venezuela.

No doubt it was enhanced by a free trade European single market (and not by the EU regulations). I never said single market is a bad thing but to scrap the politico-ideological part of the union and leave the free market for European economies to thrive.

Another example are the CO2 emmisions quotas for which a country has to pay money which would hamper the Polish economy which is partially based on coal. Fortunately Poland was the only EU country sane enough to withdraw from it.

Btw: Poland is safer not thanks to the EU but despite it: we didn't take a large number of middle easter and african muslims that te EU wanted to enforce on us.

The first new year baby was born in Frankfurt...at 0.02. a little Jakub....son of polish parents Michal and Izabella...

That's actually interesting cause I'd presume that the first newborn in Germany would have a name like Abdul or Mohhamed :-)
Tacitus 2 | 927
2 Jan 2020 #124
Last year, Mohammed was not even among the top 50.

beliebte-vornamen.de/jahrgang/j2018

Economic progress in a normal thing

Just compare how the Ukraine and Poland have developed since the end of the Sovietunion.

politico-ideological part

A single market like the European one does not work without political integration.

example are the CO2 emmisions

Maybe not CO2, but I think it would be good for the Polish people if the EU forced Warsaw to do something against air pollution in cities. The smog you regulary see on television (and one Polish friend told me about) can not be healthy.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,514
2 Jan 2020 #125
air pollution

Man I can't wait to take my truck to Europe and coal roll all the beta males in their chick cars lol. Free thick black smoke for everyone!

beliebte-vornamen.de/jahrgang/j2018

According to the following sources, muhammed is among the most popular name in several EU countries -namely the cucked ones like Germanistan and United Kaliphate

thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/32194-mohammed-is-taking-over-europe-name-most-popular-in-berlin-elsewhere
Bild, a German newspaper, reported data from the Gesellschaft für deutsche Sprache (GfdS), or German Language Society. Mohammed in all its variants was the most popular name in Berlin, and the second most popular in Bremen, ahead of Ben but behind Elias."Of the total of 22,177 boys born in Berlin in 2018," Andrea-Eva Ewels, managing director of GfdS, told the newspaper, "exactly 280 were named Mohammed." She said 244 Berlin boys were Louises, while 234 were Emils.

qz.com/1082778/popular-baby-names-muhammad-is-actually-the-most-boys-name-in-england-and-wales-not-oliver/
Quartz - a left leaning source at that even admits it...

The UK's national statistics office recently released the latest data on baby names in England and Wales. It says the following: "Oliver remains as the most popular first name given to baby boys in England and Wales in 2016." But that's not really true. In fact, the most common name by far is Muhammad.

voiceofeurope.com/2018/01/mohammed-most-popular-name-for-newborn-boys-in-the-netherlands-for-second-year-in-a-row/
Netherlands - another increasingly cucked country full of kebab...

aa.com.tr/en/europe/muhammad-most-popular-baby-name-in-berlin/1468468
The most popular name for babies born in Berlin in 2018 was Muhammad, according to a Language Society for Germany report Thursday.

This is why kebab must be removed. If not, every other person in Europe will be named Ahmed, Muhammed, Abdul, etc. and every other woman will be dressed like a ninja.
Rich Mazur 4 | 4,339
2 Jan 2020 #126
If not, every other person in Europe will be named Ahmed, Muhammed, Abdul,

1. Europe deserves it because they asked for it to feel good. Just like every addict.
2. I am OK with that as long as these morons never, ever ask the US to help them in any way.
3. I want all the money and the dead the US spent defending the weasels.
mafketis 21 | 7,607
2 Jan 2020 #127
A single market like the European one does not work

no it doesn't, you can prioritize solidarity (and institutionalize things like currency transfers) or continue with the pantomime horse that currently operates....
Dougpol1 33 | 3,409
2 Jan 2020 #128
the Polish economy which is partially based on coal. Fortunately Poland was the only EU country sane enough to withdraw from it.

Yes, but let me jog your memory. You live in London, so don't have to breathe the polluted air here. Polluted air - in our streets, from people burning coal.

That shortens lives, and actually kills people. Old people. But you have the gall to say "We"?
You hypocrites make me sick to the stomach. Now run along you ignorant fool.
Spike31 2 | 973
2 Jan 2020 #129
Just compare how the Ukraine and Poland have developed since the end of the Sovietunion.

True, but it's thanks to a different mentality and work ethics of our people. Ukraine is a war torn country with a homo sovietcus mentality. A mentality which was greatly stopped in the communist years in Poland by an influence of the Catholic Church and our deeply rooted cultural traditions. East Germans, for example, have more homo sovieticus mentality than old generation Poles do. I'm referring to the "wall in the head" syndrome.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union we've started to grow at a different pace, long before Poland has joined the EU.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Ukraine#/media/File:GDP_PPP_Poland.svg

Obviously a single European market has helped Poland greatly and we made a great use of it as a society. To a point where less competitive countries like France have started to block it and inpose some barriers, like in a case of a delegated workers.

You live in London, so don't have to breathe the polluted air here

I belive that I've already explained that I live half-year here and half-year there. So for a half a year I breathe a heavily polluted air in London, and for another half I breathe equally polluted air in Warsaw.
cms neuf - | 1,134
2 Jan 2020 #130
Instead of talking nonsense about Homo Sovieticus let's compare the countries that did join the EU in 2004 with those that did not.

Poland, Czech, Hungary, the Baltics , Slovakia, Slovenia vs Serbia, Macedonia, Albani, Ukraine, Moldova etc. in some cases these were in the same country 30 years ago but are now worlds apart.

Do you honestly think the Poles have a greater work ethic than the Ukrainians ?
mafketis 21 | 7,607
2 Jan 2020 #131
in some cases these were in the same country 30 years ago

Well Slovenia and Macedonia were (by far) the wealthiest and poorest republics of Jugoslavija so that's not a great comparison (same with the annexed Baltic states vs other Soviet republics) but yes, the EU has done massively good work in eradicating poverty in member states - until it went off the neoliberal deep end in 2009 and began doing dumb stuff like enforcing austerity.

It's been a great organization but it has to deal with its internal contradictions (including either ditching the toxic euro or turning it into a real currency union with transfers).
Spike31 2 | 973
2 Jan 2020 #132
Economy is greatly influenced by a mentality and work ethics of people. That way a montain island like Japan with a virtual lack of a significant natural mineral resouces have grown to be an economic powerhouses of the world.

let's compare the countries that did join the EU in 2004 with those that did not.

That's what I did with Poland and Ukraine, where you can see that a significant economic differences have started in the early 90's. The single european market has helped to boost the economical growth while some EU regulations has hampered it in one way or another. All in all, without those regulation and with a pure free market exchange I believe Poland would develop faster.

So you'll have to count the losses which are not visible to the eye simply because they were never allowed to see the light. In economy it is called an Opportunity Cost.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost
cms neuf - | 1,134
2 Jan 2020 #133
Thanks for that - I needed someone to explain opportunity cost to me

Google would have been invented in Siedlce if it wasn't for the pesky EU
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,139
2 Jan 2020 #134
....or...how they always say...."The grass is always greener somewhere else!"

And Polands history is such an apposition of political and economical successes, they must know what they are talking about!
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,514
2 Jan 2020 #135
1) Slovenia and Croatia have been historically richer than Serbia which in turn has been historically richer than Bosnia
2) Ukraine has historically been a **** hole.
3) Many of the countries like Bulgaria and Romania remain poor despite being in the EU.
4) Switzerland isn't an EU country, yet rich as hell. Same with Norway and Iceland. And historically these have also been rich countries.

The EU didn't change Poland. Poles changed Poland. The amount of money that Poland receives each year from the EU is a miniscule fraction of the GDP. Enough to fix sidewalks and repaint some old gyms, and for a few wiser people who know how to work the system to increase their wealth.
cms neuf - | 1,134
2 Jan 2020 #136
So, some people who live abroad and are too young to remember pre EU Poland don't appreciate the changes that have occurred.

Serbia and Croatia were roughly of equal wealth in 1989 - croatia is now. 4x richer.

Poland and ukraine were also roughly equal GDP per head in 1989 - Poland is now 4x richer.

Romania and Bulgaria are now 2x richer than Serbia, both have doubled wealth since 2007. Romania by the way is catching up fast with Poland.

The value of the EU is not in the handouts but in the opportunities it provides and which Polish business has taken full advantage of - something an Ivy League student like yourself should easily understand.
Lenka 3 | 1,696
2 Jan 2020 #137
Enough to fix sidewalks and repaint some old gyms

To equip and renovate hospitals, historical places etc, computers for schools IT classes back when many kids didn't see a computer in their life, study grants, help with opening a business... Yeah, who would like that...
Rich Mazur 4 | 4,339
2 Jan 2020 #138
I am sure the UK and the German taxpayers are having their daily orgasms at the idea of fixing Polish hospitals, historical places etc,...
Lenka 3 | 1,696
2 Jan 2020 #139
In exchange they received easy access to very starved market for example.
cms neuf - | 1,134
2 Jan 2020 #140
Not to mention pulling Poland permanently out of the orbit of the Russian drunk invaders - so Britain and Germany can spend less on defence
Dougpol1 33 | 3,409
2 Jan 2020 #141
they received easy access to very starved market

But...but...exactly. Rich, Dirk, Spike, and Iron, already know that. They just choose to ignore it. The UK is just about to find out how much they are going to miss that access; in the meantime a Polish 47 percent poll ostensibly in favour of leaving the European Union suggests that the electorate should be required to take an IQ test to get the vote.

None of the above 4 posters would be affected much if Poland ever did leave the Union - maybe Spike, if he did indeed live half the time in Poland and the UK. If - not that it's any concern of mine. By the way Spike, Warsaw is not token of small town Poland. The real Poland where the majority of the population live - aka PISland. Which is heavily polluted by domestically generated coal smoke, and not comparable in degree of danger to health to car pollution in London.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,671
2 Jan 2020 #142
in the meantime a Polish 47 percent poll ostensibly in favour of leaving the European Union

... but a 70% would vote to remain in the EU
and these figures simply don't add up.

Rich, Dirk, Spike, and Iron already know it

The first two are Americans and you can simply ignore them as they are paid Trump trolls. Then you can ignore Iron as he already lives in the EU and has no intention to move back to Poland if Poland does a Polexit. He in turn is a paid Putin troll. As far as Spike is concerned, he is the one likely to return to Poland, but he would still be among the tiny minority of people dreaming of the nationalists taking power in Poland, so he is not doing any major harm to Poland, tbh.
Spike31 2 | 973
2 Jan 2020 #143
computers for schools IT classes back when many kids didn't see a computer in their life

Sure, apart of that they've also introduced the use of fire and the concept of spherical earth :-)

I had a ZX Spectrum since I was a little kid. Later on uprgaded to IBM PC. Most of my friends had simple computers like Commodore 64, Amiga 500 or Atari in the early 90's. I don't remember any young boy living in my neighbourhood in the 90's not being fascinated with IT technology and the use of computers. And even when they didn't owned a personal PC they used it at friends place or in an internet cafe.

All those modern game developing studios in Poland didn't grow out of thin air.
Rich Mazur 4 | 4,339
2 Jan 2020 #144
In exchange they received easy access to very starved market for example.

If that was an even exchange, Poland couldn't claim ANY benefit from being part of the EU. That's not my opinion. That's pure accounting and math.

It's the net bottom line that counts and, so far, Poland wins on the backs of the foreign taxpayers even if only the private funds are used today. This is known as crony capitalism where the profits are private and the losses, if any, are happily passed on to the taxpayers. The US corrupt swamp made it perfect and the EU Western "democracies" are just the same. Those cases are called "too big to fail" so they don't.
Dougpol1 33 | 3,409
2 Jan 2020 #145
crony capitalism

The last time I checked, my IQ was 123, but it's been going down steadily ever since. But I don't need to worry to much about the onset of dementia yet, as I wager that no one else here understands the point of your post. Can we assume you didn't make your millions of roubles in corporate finance?

The whole point about enlarging the Union was to widen the consumer base. I am so sorry that Russia was excluded from accessing tarriff free British biscuits or French cheeses, but you do have your "champagne" and caviar to tide you over.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,514
3 Jan 2020 #146
So, some people who live abroad and are too young to remember pre EU Poland don't appreciate the changes that have occurred.

I remember Poland pre-EU. At least in terms of Wroclaw it's not that much different. Most the development occured within the past 5 years thanks to the strong local economy and higher wages compared to other parts of Poland.

The first two are Americans and you can simply ignore them as they are paid Trump trolls

Well, Trump indirectly did pay for my flooded Rolex so thanks to him for that.

many kids didn't see a computer in their life

pfffttt kids had computers even in the bloki and wioski well before EU accession.

Only benefit of the EU is that Poles can go to places like UK, Germany, etc. and claim benefits, pull scams, undercut local wages, etc. Western Eu is soft and sweet so it's no wonder Poles, Russians and now increasingly muslims are running a train on the locals. That's what happens when the males in your society act more like ******* than the local women...

Poland couldn't claim ANY benefit from being part of the EU. That's not my opinion. That's pure accounting and math.

No ****. Even if you add up all the funds that Poland received it's a tiny fraction of the GDP.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,514
3 Jan 2020 #147
Romania by the way is catching up fast with Poland.

Romania is an utter ********. Save for Bucharest, Romania is a big gypsy village pretending to be a country.

And no, Poland has always been richer than Ukraine - even during PRL.
Crow 137 | 7,857
3 Jan 2020 #148
Poles, get the f*** out of EU before isn`t too late. EU leads to imperfection and impurity.

Serbia and Croatia were roughly of equal wealth in 1989 - croatia is now. 4x richer.

Serbian economy is much better already. And have in mind that Serbia suffered western European, Islamic league and USA economic sanctions and embargo for many years and was even openly assaulted and suffered damage of 200 billion US dollars in infrastructure and economy. At the same time Serbia, country of 7 million people, accepted 1 million refugees from other parts of former Yugoslavia that were involved in Civil War.

What still holds Croatia not to sink entirely is annual revenue from tourism in Dalmatia that is on level of 8 billion eur.

See, Dalmatian regions already seek to secede from Croatia and re-join with Serbia.
Lyzko 24 | 7,110
3 Jan 2020 #149
No man's an island, Crow!
Even Tito wasn't completely "anti-" NATO, don't forget.
Spike31 2 | 973
3 Jan 2020 #150
Poles, get the f*** out of EU before isn`t too late. EU leads to imperfection and impurity.

I'd say that in a long run it leads to an economical stagnation and dissolution of traditional values, but we're on the same page here ;-)


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