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Do Poles in Poland really feel betrayed because there won't be any US Shield?


LwowskaKrakow 28 | 431
18 Sep 2009  #1
The medias are saying that Kazsinski and a Polish tabloid Falk said that he feels betrayed and threatened by Russia since the US are dropping the project of the missiles shield.

' The Us are too broke and busy with Iran to consider Russia as a serious threat to the free world, in my opinion.

is it true ? Do Poles really think that they could be a risk of beeing invaded again or attacked by Russia their big neighbourg?
Nickidewbear 23 | 569
18 Sep 2009  #2
I'm not in Poland, but I have a feeling that the Danilowiczes, Czarnieckis, Andrulewiczes, and Margiewiczes who stayed behind are feeling a little sick; and some of them, like Great-Granddad Czarnecki's grandparents felt, are probably ready to choke us (ah, yes; us shaygetze Yiddish kop who were good Jews until we converted to Catholicism to avoid the pogroms. Then we fled to Ellis Island and Sugar Notch, Pennsylvania to avoid their wrath. We must really be goyische traitors to them right now.).
MarcinD 4 | 135
18 Sep 2009  #3
It's the RIGHT WING that feels betrayed. The shield was always only backed by 50% of the population and the article I read today stated that the publics backing was decreased since then, with only 29% in favor of it.

It was a STUPID idea from the start and personally I'm very glad that it's been scratched. Poland needs to improve relations with their neighbors. As much as America likes to claim they care about Poland they do not. I've lived in America for 21 years now and can tell you first hand it's a one sided relationship. For example I had a relative that wanted to move here but there are specific quotas set on how many Poles can immigrate, on the other hand other European countries such as Czech for example do not have the same restrictions. And considering all that Poland has done for America "Poland was one of the first eastern European nations to join NATO. It opted to buy American instead of European fighter plans for its airforce in 2003 and rallied to the support of Washington during the Iraq war."

Poland has a ******** government at the moment (too right wing IMO) and this crying out that they've been betrayed is stupid. It was a stupid idea from the start and all my relatives over in Poland were against the shield idea from the start. Yes this takes some leverage away from Poland when it comes to it's dealing with neighboring countries because they no longer have America in their corner but if you didn't see this coming your a fool. Personally I'm ashamed to see stuff like "we were betrayed". I look over at the Czechs and see how they quietly sit around and wait for all the dust to settle and then get involved and wish we were more like that. Czech have always been followers and yet look at what leading has done for Poland....not much. We need to improve our relations with neighboring nations and elect a more "liberal" government. The right wing/Catholic Orthodox (even though i am Catholic) is ********. Western Europe is angered at our dealings with the US and don't have a favorable view of Poland.
TheOther 5 | 3,793
18 Sep 2009  #4
it's a one sided relationship

I have to agree with that. All this talk about "key allies in eastern Europe" is just politics and as such, big BS.
Arien 3 | 721
18 Sep 2009  #5
We need to improve our relations with neighboring nations and elect a more "liberal" government.

I'd say that would definitely be a step in the right direction. (No pun intended!)

:)
MarcinD 4 | 135
18 Sep 2009  #6
I have to agree with that. All this talk about "key allies in eastern Europe" is just politics and as such, big BS.

I mean what has America ever done for Poland? They didn't convince Churchill not to hand us over to the Russians after WWII and for all sakes and purposes they use Poland as a political pawn against Russia. Poland foolishly took Americas word and ran with it angering the rest of Europe. America has major financial problems at the moment and their military is strapped in two wars - so what kind of credibility does America even have right now against a Russia even if Russia did something against Poland? They don't, basically all were doing is angering our neighbors for the sake of bragging we have a buddy half way across the globe.

Let me put it this way, show me an example of America helping another country just for the sake of it. They don't, there is always a bottom line for America and if it doesn't add up they won't become involved or back you. So there is no point of being strong allies with them because they will help you either way - if it will benefit them somehow.
plk123 8 | 4,150
18 Sep 2009  #7
there will be a shield of some sort in PL one way or another.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
18 Sep 2009  #8
Do Poles really think that they could be a risk of beeing invaded again or attacked by Russia their big neighbourg?

Not really...I dont feel threatened. But I am happy there is no missile defence shield. Its more trouble than cure!

No Thanks!
TheOther 5 | 3,793
18 Sep 2009  #9
I mean what has America ever done for Poland?

All superpowers behave(d) like that. They don't give a s**t about other nations.
MarcinD 4 | 135
18 Sep 2009  #10
As for WHY Poland is saying they feel betrayed is because they sent troops to Iraq on a promise that this shield would be put up and Polands government found out about the new revaluation on Czech tv. Obama didn't pick up a phone and say this is what we've decided. Although no more shield is good, the way that Poland found out and how the deal was broken (although Obama is not Bush) they indeed were betrayed. Obama should have called and told them straight up.
Dice 15 | 452
18 Sep 2009  #11
Many Poles hated US because we offered them a free missile shield. They said it was an insolt to them, what they demanded was a free shield plus lots of cash. So US changed their mind. Well now the same Poles feel insolted because US won't give them a free missile shield. Too bad. I'm just happy I wont have to pay for it with my tax dollars.
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
18 Sep 2009  #12
It's good there's no missile defence, it would have never been beneficial to us anyway. I hope that Polish politicians learn a hard lesson from this, never to trust what Americans are saying or promising you, or you risk alienating immediate neighbours and constituents. You look like a regular brown nosers with their tongues out ready for action. It will never help you to rub shoulders with the Yanks in a long run, and your own constituents might have a little more respect for you. Lookout for Number one first and your own people might start having some respect for you instead of contempt for being Americas lapdogs.. People were never keen on this idea, only our foolish politicians were a bit too eager to please. I hope that finally those days are put to rest.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
18 Sep 2009  #13
That about sums it up, Mr Thug. Politicians have to at least try and move with the will of the people but they were just doing business. The Poles I've talked to on this issue are clearly of this belief too. There is no imminent danger here and it's insulting to Poles to say that Iran poses a threat. It's all spin and they'll never come out and admit it.

It's Israel that's sparking it up there by disproportionate killings. They didn't hit back at Israel for OCL 27/12/08-18/01/09. Israel should be thankful for that.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
18 Sep 2009  #14
Do Poles in Poland really feel betrayed because there won't be any US Shield?

Some yes, some not... Personally I do. I wasn't a big fan of the "shileld" being located in Poland but the government level agreement was signed and USA should respect It or at least offer us some series compensation insted but they simply announced that they changed their mind and they did that... on the 70th anniversary of the Soviet invasion... No matter what America says is worth nothing now as once there's a new guy in the White House they may forget about their obligations. It means that we should complety change our security strategy and that is what matters, not the "shield" itself.

Poland has a ******** government at the moment (too right wing IMO)

LOL ! You've got to be kidding me. How is that government "right wing" ?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,765
18 Sep 2009  #15
Kwasniewski interview
spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,649956,00.html
scrappleton - | 831
19 Sep 2009  #16
It or at least offer us some series compensation

LOL.. here we go," just give us some money".Haha typical Polack.

"We didn't want the thing to begin with but hey float us some money because you no longer want to build it and pay for it." Great logic.. Africa East more or less.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
19 Sep 2009  #17
Right on, Scrappy. I've found myself agreeing with your points, what's going on here? ;) ;) Clearly Germany isn't plying them with enough funds from the EU ;)

Poland signed the contract but hardly kicked up a stink when it was rescinded. Russia has adopted a nicer tone now and no missiles will be pointing at Poland from Kalingrad.

Just give us some money, LOL
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
19 Sep 2009  #18
LOL.. here we go," just give us some money".Haha typical Polack.

Not only did Poland send troops to Iraq but also allowed USA to build bases in Poland. It's the allowed not they build anythign or not...
scrappleton - | 831
19 Sep 2009  #19
Not only did Poland send troops to Iraq but also allowed USA

Yeah 2500 people.. less than 3 battalions from a country of 40 million. They are members of NATO but they are more than welcome to pull out at any time. At this rate with all the complaining they're doing, I would say they should pull out and send us their bill. Then they can go back to banging the alms cup at the German gate.
sledz 23 | 2,250
19 Sep 2009  #20
Yeah 2500 people.. less than 3 battalions from a country of 40 million

Its just a show of support ,thats all:)

But for us to lift visa restrictions on a counrty with a long history of its citizens not returning home and living here Illegally is ridiculous.

The Poles should put the blame on there fellow other Poles that broke the law and ruined it for everybody else, but they dont seem to want to realize this?

LOL.. here we go," just give us some money".Haha typical Polack.

LOL:)

Blame America for all your problems as usuall..lol
KrzysztofMaximi 1 | 6
19 Sep 2009  #21
Many of these responses are typical of the American "Left-Coast" and are not necessarily reflective of what a majority of Americans may think. I believe Mr. Obama just handed Mr. Putin a gift, for which the West received nothing, other than the perception we may be easily bought. Was the sheild the best option? Perhaps yes, maybe no. However, this was handled very poorly. I also believe the timing of this announcement was both ignorant and shameful.
scrappleton - | 831
19 Sep 2009  #22
Blame America for all your problems as usuall..lol

Oh yeah, some kid in Iceland has the crabs tonight, surely the US put them in his underwear. News at 11:00.
mihir1310 - | 5
19 Sep 2009  #23
Grzegorz_

********
But the government level agreement was signed and USA should respect It or at least offer us some series compensation insted but they simply announced that they changed their mind and they did that...

*************

hmmmm ,I can understand your agony at being betrayed. In that way you can now feel how the Russians felt when agreements / promises of MUCH larger magnitude & significance were blatantly disregarded fueling hostility in East Europe . Trust me , I mean no offence, but this act 'which you call as betrayal ' is only a correction of a muc bigger betrayal .
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
19 Sep 2009  #24
Oh yeah, some kid in Iceland has the crabs tonight, surely the US put them in his underwear. News at 11:00.

Well you occupied it in WW2! SHAME ON YOU! :P

*********
hmmmm ,I can understand your agony at being betrayed. In that way you can now feel Russians who felt betrayed when agreements / promises of MUCH larger magnitude & significance were blatantly disregarded fueling hostility in East Europe . Trust me , I mean no offence, but this act 'which you call as betrayal ' is only a correction of a muc bigger betrayal .

**********

I don't care about how Russia or the folx controling it or Russians feel like...
They may feel so much betrayed as much they want! Their dipshit!
mihir1310 - | 5
19 Sep 2009  #25
I don't care about how Russia or the folx controling it or Russians feel like...
They may feel so much betrayed as much they want! Their dipshit!


Similarly they dont care about your feeling too .. Live with it . There isnt much you can do about it
scrappleton - | 831
19 Sep 2009  #26
Well you occupied it in WW2! SHAME ON YOU! :P

Ahhh go chase a reindeer. At least we weren't burning a candle if front of Adolph's picture like most in Scandinavia.
plk123 8 | 4,150
19 Sep 2009  #27
haha scrappy, you're a typical american buttholio.

that is all. :D :D
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
19 Sep 2009  #28
But for us to lift visa restrictions on a counrty with a long history of its citizens not returning home and living here Illegally is ridiculous.

That isn't a good reason to have a visa restriction in place. There are so many people from other countries here, it doesn't really matter who they let in so long as it isn't the muslims. Keep the muslims out, anyone else should be able to get a visa. Most of the illegals are Mexican, anyway.

As for the shield, it doesn't seem like people wanted one and since it was unpopular in the first place and is now scrapped, people should be happy they don't have to have one now.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
19 Sep 2009  #29
Sorry PP, I'm with sledz on this one. You want a deterrent, you make sure people tow the line or face the consequences. If it goes unpunished, they'll do it again and again. I know if scuppers the chances of innocent folks but that's life. Innocent Americans run the risk of being killed in many countries due to how events have unfolded.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
19 Sep 2009  #30
My point is, the Poles wouldn't have the most illegal immigration anyway. Stop discriminating against the Poles and give them Visas. It's only fair. Everybody else gets them. The only problem I have is with the muslims getting them. Everyone who wants to come to the US should be allowed a Visa so long as they are not criminals, have a contagious disease or muslims but everyone else should be welcome and allowed to have a visa.

I agree with what most say about the Visa issue. There is no reason to deny Visas to Poles.


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