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Do Poles in Poland really feel betrayed because there won't be any US Shield?


krysia 23 | 3,058
24 Sep 2009 #211
Why do Americans look for jobs in other countries? Because they want to live someplace besides America, for a while, anyway. Same goes for Poles or anyone else.

Why are there so little patriots in Poland? Why don't Polish people mobilize themselves and make the country better instead of being so competitive against one another to see how much money they will make in another country. Stop the government corruption and complaining and go to work. On your own country.
Babinich 1 | 455
24 Sep 2009 #212
Why don't Polish people mobilize themselves and make the country better instead of being so competitive against one another to see how much money they will make in another country.

Because self-preservation, or greed, are woven in the fabric called human nature.
Ksysia 25 | 430
24 Sep 2009 #213
Why are there so little patriots in Poland?

Because anyone who is a patriot gets labelled a fascist or worse/
sjam 2 | 541
24 Sep 2009 #215
You don't have to be a neo-facist or neo-nazi to be a patriot but neo-facists and neo-nazis believe you do in order to be considered a true patriot :-)
Ksysia 25 | 430
24 Sep 2009 #216
It's just that fascists and soviets and nazis also mean 'invading enemies', so it kind of carries more weight. It's like being a foreign agent, a traitor, enemy. An average person would feel for freedom movement, solidarity, etc.

Sadly, solidarity with labourers may be seen by the labour unions as an occasion to get more money for free. And, the Unions are not the only powerful force which will lose money if there will be fairer regulations. So: if you are a patriot, and want people to pay equal taxes, for the benefit of the Country, then it means wanting the Unions to pay more taxes than they currently do, and immediately you are a soviet nazi fascist terrorizing the freedoms of solidarity of labourers.

It's a simple obstacle, that is impossible to overcome until we have done thing - passed a law that all employers must put the amount of money deducted by the Union on the payment slip. If the labourers ever learn how they are stolen from, and how much, there will be some lynching.

Which, again, is bad for us, because the media will show Poland as a country of fascist Anti-Semites where simple people lynch nice suited guys who must be Jews, since Poland is that cold, dodgy Anti-Semitic despotic land, and we will be destined to lose some contracts.

In short - PC is a terrible reality. It is exactly the same as the New Speak in the socialism. One words criticising the wonders of socialism and one could never get a job again, even if one survived.
krysia 23 | 3,058
25 Sep 2009 #217
OK....now it's all clear.
Babinich 1 | 455
25 Sep 2009 #218
foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=9988388
Ksysia 25 | 430
25 Sep 2009 #219
Ugh, I wish the Prez would be more of an orator.

Very interesting to me was how does Polish language sound when contrasted with American English! Do you think it would sound less alien if we prolonged the vowels a little?
Babinich 1 | 455
26 Sep 2009 #220
Do you think it would sound less alien if we prolonged the vowels a little?

Less alien; but also less rough and tumble.

I like the rough and tumble. :')

More goodies...

biggovernment.com/2009/09/25/sarkozy-mocks-obama-at-un-security-council-hello-big-media/
Kaczor Duck 2 | 95
26 Sep 2009 #221
Questions to ask.....Why did Obama end the missle defense shield on the day of the anniversary of the invasion??? SImple, he first does not know how to govern, 2nd, he does not like America, and 3rd he gave into Russian demands.

THere are 2 sure things here...Russia (SOVIET UNION) is still alive and well, and the US has been weakened by a man who wants to be President of the WORLD> He sold out America in the UN meetings last week, and continues to sell us out. He is a DISRGRACE> I knew he would scrap the missle defense plan, b/c it is an "IN YOUR FACE TO BUSH" and there is that hope and change again. How is that hope and change working out for America???? I may want to come to Poland and live.
Ksysia 25 | 430
26 Sep 2009 #222
I may want to come to Poland and live.

By all means do. We need some of that American 'can do' attitude.
TheOther 6 | 3,674
26 Sep 2009 #223
We need some of that American 'can do' attitude

Especially this redneck, far right can-do attitude... :)
Babinich 1 | 455
26 Sep 2009 #224
Babinich:
Why are there so little patriots in Poland?

Ksysia:
Because anyone who is a patriot gets labelled a fascist or worse/

just a clarification... This are not my words. (I assume we're talking about the missile and not the emotion).
Crow 155 | 9,030
26 Sep 2009 #225
there won't be any US Shield

see, who said that USA can`t do anything good for Poland
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,171
27 Sep 2009 #226
You did
I wished it would
Others belived in it blindly since USA is "imperialistic"

But it didn't build...
I only see few directions left for Poland

-Commonwealth (a joining of several countries in central Europe I have no hope of getting Lithuania and Ukraine along it's just plainly impossible in my eyes)

-Germany (military ambitions aren't that high there anylonger while it's a good economic power)
-Russia (as final solution Russia may become an alternative since it's a huge marked and Russians generally don't look at Poland the way Westers look at it)

-dividing alliance (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Poland, Ukraine, Slovakia, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria, Turkey and maybe some balkan countries)
Crow 155 | 9,030
27 Sep 2009 #227
-dividing alliance (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Poland, Ukraine, Slovakia, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria, Turkey and maybe some balkan countries)

except Turkey

Constantinople and much more then that aren`t Turkish but it belong to natives. So, natives should control it, not Turkey. Polish-Turkish alliance would look like that Poland guaranties Turkish conquets.

Alliance with Turkey would be Poland vs. Poland situation. Same as NATO, its a negative choice and trap for Poland.
Babinich 1 | 455
27 Sep 2009 #228
Ignorance: it can kill 'ya...

pajamasmedia.com/claudiarosett/learning-to-love-the-french-when-sarkozy-spoke-truth-to-obama/

more on missile defense past and present...

samizdata.net/blog/archives/2009/09/how_dumb_does_a.html

(Gotta love the London Telegraph...)
Polonius3 994 | 12,380
27 Sep 2009 #229
OBAMA SUPPROTS RUSSIAN TSARS?

chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/6637878.html

\This editorial in the Houston Chronicle is surpisingly anti-Obama and pro-Polish. What do you think?
krakuskabanos 4 | 43
27 Sep 2009 #230
It was a STUPID idea from the start and personally I'm very glad that it's been scratched. Poland needs to improve relations with their neighbors. As much as America likes to claim they care about Poland they do not. I've lived in America for 21 years now and can tell you first hand it's a one sided relationship.

i am not surprised. it's always been like this.... i am quite sure that poland isnt and shouldnt feel betrayed because the plan didnt push thru. poland does not need it. poland should not need america. it is only an introduction to the exploitation of poland - better admit it mr. obama.

and the US has been weakened by a man who wants to be President of the WORLD

obama is a big liar. in his first speech, he says I WILL CHANGE THE WORLD. does he actually think that he is a superhero? excuse me mr. obama, do not forget that the money that you are spending are the taxpayers money. not your lunch money.

like I said, I really doubt poland is in any danger of invasion in the near future.

i've always known that history repeats itself. so much better to be vigilant but not overly paranoid, is that right mr. obama?
Crow 155 | 9,030
28 Sep 2009 #231
You did

true and, i am sorry. i now clearly see that USA love Poland and wish all the best to Polish people
sledz 23 | 2,250
28 Sep 2009 #232
Iran has just tested a missle that can hit Europe
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,171
28 Sep 2009 #233
except Turkey

I said Turkey mostly becaouse of it's strategic position, controlling the little "canal" vetween the black sea and mediteranian. If a country took over the place I would go /care unless their against Poland ;(
Crow 155 | 9,030
28 Sep 2009 #234
ah so. It was about territory? blank territory, without Turks?

no problem. Just give time to Serb Ratko ;)

Iran has just tested a missle that can hit Europe

what has that with Slavija? Slavija don`t provoke Iran. Isn`t it?
Seanus 15 | 19,674
28 Sep 2009 #235
It can't reach Poland, sledz. I've seen the schematics. It can reach the border of Romania/Ukraine. However, look at the northwesternmost part of that border and the southeasternmost part of Poland, NOT that far. If the calculations are off.....

Iran won't fire, plain and simple.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
28 Sep 2009 #236
We don't need any more of the damn things anyway. We should be reducing stockpiles, not creating more of the damn things!
szczeciniak 4 | 92
29 Sep 2009 #237
Obama Administration has made big fanfare about a so-called “reset” of US-Russian relations, it is clear the reset intended is back to the disastrous (for Russia) Yeltsin era of chaos and collapse of Russian state power in the early 1990’s. What is ignored are the clear strategic-based reasons for the dramatic deterioration in US-Russian relations—Washington and Washington-led NATO have posed an existential challenge to the very survival of Russia as a nation by Washington’s series of power coups or “color revolutions,” most clearly the 2003-2004 revolutions in Ukraine and in Georgia

Adding to the appearance as seen from Moscow that US intent is to ultimately destroy Russia was the US insistence, until now endorsed by Obama, to place highly offensive missile and radar installations into Poland and the Czech Republic, the mis-named US “ballistic missile defense.” As former US military experts have put it, missile defense is the key to nuclear first strike. Whether or not Obama definitively cancels the missile defense plans will be a decisive indication if serious US rethinking is possible or not.

Rather than continuing the confrontation with Russia in its own security sphere of Georgia or Ukraine, it would have to consider making concessions to Russian security concerns by negotiating an end to the US missile defense as Obama suggested in the campaign debates. The fact that the Czech press suggests that has just been decided, indicates a desperate internal attempt within the US power establishment to rethink fundamentals of America’s global strength. Cancelling missile defense and easing of NATO support in Ukraine and Georgia would open the door to urgently needed Russian cooperation for a US policy with Iran and Afghanistan.

Ironically, the US Government has just released its latest threat review. The US 2009 National Intelligence Strategy (NIS), a four-year blueprint for the intelligence services, cites Russia, China, Iran and North Korea as countries that "have the ability to challenge US interests," not only in traditional ways, such as military force and espionage, but also in "emerging" ways, in particular cyber operations. It noted, "Russia…may continue to seek avenues for reasserting power and influence in ways that complicate US interests."

no matter how weak Russia might appear economically, it would certainly make that challenge to US influence a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Russian newsmedia reported that Iran would receive an advanced Russian-made S-300 anti-aircraft system by the year's end that could help fend off any pre-emptive strikes against its nuclear facilities. The first deliveries are to begin this month and be completed within 12 months.

so it would be nice to have something like S-300 anti-aircraft system in poland and ukraine!!
or i may be wrong , and its all too late?
Babinich 1 | 455
29 Sep 2009 #238
Whether or not Obama definitively cancels the missile defense plans will be a decisive indication if serious US rethinking is possible or not.

closingvelocity.typepad.com/closing_velocity/2009/09/vindicated-reagans-vision-for-missile-defense.html
samizdata.net/blog/archives/2009/09/how_dumb_does_a.html
Crow 155 | 9,030
29 Sep 2009 #239
i`m curious what would happen if Medvedev lost his mind and eventualy rape Obama

how would NATO take it diplomaticaly and what would be official Poland`s position
szkotja2007 27 | 1,498
29 Sep 2009 #240
i`m curious what would happen if Medvedev lost his mind and eventualy rape Obama

Some thoughts are best kept to youself.

what would be official Poland`s position

If he hid in France for 30 years Poland would forgive him.


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