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Do Poles in Poland really feel betrayed because there won't be any US Shield?


MareGaea 29 | 2,751
19 Sep 2009 #61
US holds no statistics on actuall numbers of Poles overstaying so got any particular countries?

That's what the immigration officer at the US embassy here in Dublin told me when I asked why it was so hard to get a Visa for my ex and why Poland could not take part in the Visa Waiver Program the US have. And I don't take it that he was lying. And besides this, come on, you know that this was happening in the 90's.

M-G (does not parrot anything, did not have an opinion about Poles before he got to meet with loads of them in Ireland and has a mostly good opinion about them)
Sokrates 8 | 3,345
19 Sep 2009 #62
That's what the immigration officer at the US embassy here in Dublin told me when I asked why it was so hard to get a Visa for my ex and why Poland could not take part in the Visa Waiver Program the US have.

Yes and Communist goverment told our citizens that they cant leave because the West is too poor to maintain guests, no documents, no proof just blank statements that reek of prejudice.

And I don't take it that he was lying.

If it was in the 90s then yeah there was a gold rush to be poor in US instead of being poor in Poland but today its just plain bull stemming from the fact that Poles became an icon of fighting illegals even though they're not even remotely an issue which means they're treated like sh*t because the US administration can get away with it and it has nothing to do with the dubious overstay claim.

Come on, "Poles overstay illegally but we dont have any statistics on that". How much more insolent can those cvnts get?
scrappleton - | 829
19 Sep 2009 #63
The alarming part is the trend of European immigrants returning to their native countries (those that still even immigrant here in the first place)

Alarming? LOL.. But not you, right? We're so lucky to have you. Woo Hoo! Haha.

What does college have to do with this discussion, your regular American doesn't attend college.

That's a flat out Euro lie. Just like we're all fat. Just something that makes you FEEL GOOD. So you keep saying it.

America NEEDS educated immigrants to keep coming because the general public in America is un educated.

Another whopper.. whatever you say, man. I'm actually doing IT for a Japanese company right now.. the whole building is Americans. Americans have invented computer languages (most of them in fact).. aerospace, biochem, look at the patents we hold.. Some immigrant brains are brought in to maximize profit but that's all.

And Slick, I've been to Europe several times and I've met many a European simpleton. So please, cut the bullsh.t. Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. The European loves to kiss his own a.ss then goes home and listens to rap or rock n' roll. Give it up, man.
Babinich 1 | 455
19 Sep 2009 #64
This country would fall apart without immigrants

Immigrants built this country. They also assimilated. That was the past; the distant past.
Sokrates 8 | 3,345
19 Sep 2009 #65
That's a flat out Euro lie. Just like we're all fat.

americansportsdata.com/obesityresearch.asp

63% of Americans are overweight.
nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity
For every 3 Americans one is fat, USA has the most fat people in the world.
"your regular American doesn't attend college."

That's a flat out Euro lie.

Absolutely, approximately 25% of Americans have college degrees, however public colleges in US are on the level of European elementary schools.

I'm actually doing IT for a Japanese company right now..

On rocket science no less!

And Slick, I've been to Europe several times and I've met many a European simpleton.

And then they told you how many states USA has:))
youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
You will not find dumber people outside US, you will not find a youtube movie like that on anyone but US mr IT in chopstick composing :)))
MareGaea 29 | 2,751
19 Sep 2009 #66
If it was in the 90s then yeah there was a gold rush to be poor in US instead of being poor in Poland

You're still suffering from what happened then. It's the way it works. There is a "nice" story of that: some time ago I read the story of a Polish gentleman in his 50's or 60's who was suing or something because the US refused him entry and he therefore missed the wedding of his (only?) daughter, taking place in the US. Everybody thought it was a shame, a disgrace and cruel to keep this man from his daughter's wedding. But what was the case? Somewhere in the 90's he went to the US and overstayed the three months he was allowed to be there for years. Officers found him and deported him and now they would not let them in. It was in that same story that a Polish authority in the US commented: "it's cruel, but understandable. Many Polish citizens have overstayed their Tourist Visa and that's why I understand the American attitude towards Polish wannabe-immigrants." It was a Polish person who stated this. Would she be lying too?

M-G (good night)
Sokrates 8 | 3,345
19 Sep 2009 #67
Many Polish citizens have overstayed their Tourist Visa and that's why I understand the American attitude towards Polish wannabe-immigrants." It was a Polish person who stated this. Would she be lying too?

You're still suffering from what happened then.

Nope, we're suffering from being an easy beating boy, they cant touch latinos or blacks because there's an army of them, they cant touch the Jews because they're holding US by the balls so they fight immigration by attacking Poles who do not even contribute to the problem.

Nope, she was brownnosing US which our goverment does, if our politicians grew some nuts and for example said what i did above in American television, then pull out of Afghanistan or send another audible signal we'd join the "no touching" club soon enough, as it is we're not suffering for anything but lack of leverage.
MareGaea 29 | 2,751
19 Sep 2009 #68
Of course. Everybody and everything is against the Poles. Always and ever. And the Poles are pure innocense. Yet everybody mistreats them and everybody abuses them. Maybe it's time Poles understood that all this complaining about everybody doesn't really make them popular and maybe also could be a reason for the reluctant way Polish immigration to other countries is handled? Btw: Poland is not the only country besides the US that has troops in Afghanistan. Last week I could read the tragic stories of two Dutch soldiers who were killed that week in Afghanistan. Every country wants to get out of there as soon as they can. We were also promised lots of things if we would send troops there. We haven't got anything they promised us. Maybe we should adopt the same attitude as the Poles: complain about everything and blame everyone except ourselves. Would be a lot easier, don't you think?

M-G (but you probably won't agree)
Babinich 1 | 455
19 Sep 2009 #69
Absolutely, approximately 25% of Americans have college degrees, however public colleges in US are on the level of European elementary schools.

What is this assertion based on?
krysia 23 | 3,058
19 Sep 2009 #70
Absolutely, approximately 25% of Americans have college degrees, however public colleges in US are on the level of European elementary schools.

In the US we start school at age 6. In Poland they start at age 7.
In the US after completing the 8 grades everyone is required to go on to high school, which is equivalent to a Polish liceum. In Poland it is not a requirement to further your education beyond the primary 8 grades. Some continue their education at a technicum after those 8 years while in the US they go to technical school after 12 years of school.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
19 Sep 2009 #71
Of course. Everybody and everything is against the Poles. Always and ever. And the Poles are pure innocense. Yet everybody mistreats them and everybody abuses them.

But, there's no excuse for denying Poles US Visas. If you are going to deny Poles, you might as well deny everyone. Poles aren't any different from any other nationality.
krysia 23 | 3,058
19 Sep 2009 #72
Yes there is. Other nationalities return when their visa expire.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
19 Sep 2009 #73
Uh, you got proof? How many Mexican nationals are in the country illegally? Or nationals from other nations? If you deny Poles, you might as well deny them all! Or, you are discriminating against Poles.
Eurola 4 | 1,902
19 Sep 2009 #74
It is true that many Poles, especially in the past two, three decades overstayed their visa. Because they got the visa first to enter the country, and did not go back in time - it ended on the record. Most people from other countries don't do that.

I can see the reason for The USA to restrict visas. I have no problem with that.
I had two visitors from Poland this year, they got their visa with no problem and they went back in time. Theirs - was a true tourist visa.

On the other hand..heck, Mexicans stay here illegally, but they never got a visa to enter the country to begin with, did they? lol.

Many, if not most people in Poland were opposed to the shield, so it should not be a big deal. The media is making it bigger than it is. Frankly, Poland is in the EU..why should she be afraid of Russian invasion? What kind of Union would allow for their member to be attacked? It's like looking at your family member being attacked by some deranged person and doing nothing. Is that how the EU works?

So, if a missile would hit one of the states here, let's Pennsylvania, the rest will do nothing?
I really don't get the EU bsh*t..
gumishu 13 | 6,134
19 Sep 2009 #75
I am absolutely for American military presence in Poland and I was absolutely for the shield - now I don't think America is any reliable partner for Poland in foreseeable future - and the visa question is irrelevant here - America seems now to be ready to sacrifice Central Europe for God know what's sake - war in Afghanistan?? Russia's cooperation to deter Iran from developing nukes? War in Afghanistan is already lost - it was completetly unnecessary in the first place - the Afghans don't seem to desire what we were supposed to give them. Iran - Iran is in no shape of building nukes in a couple of next years. (exagerating threats seems to be what American intelligence were doing in case of Iraq - Iran maybe not much different - just seems there are people there who want to stir as much as possible) - defending Israel from Iran - why should America attack Iran do defend Israel? - to antagonise muslims even more???

Russia is potentially the biggest threat - with it's economy based on faint foundations - with its active antagonising policies toward nations formerly in the Eastern block (not all nations) - what's it gonna be if Russian economy fails and the government seeks to turn away the nations attention by initiating a military confilict with say Ukraine or Estonia - that they probe the west attitudes is clear for me in Georgian conflict
OP LwowskaKrakow 28 | 431
19 Sep 2009 #76
Yes there is. Other nationalities return when their visa expire.

What a silly comment. If people do not return when their visa expire it means either they cannot afford to return or they found better opportunities in the country they visited.

The USA are a goldmine of opportunities in some fields and I don't see why people with a family to care for in Poland should not try to improve their living standards if they can which does not mean I support parasites but people who contribute to any country aswell as contributing to themselves cannot be blamed for trying to overstay (until they get caught of course when it is illegal).

4th or 5th generations of Americans should always remember why and how their ancestors left their native country.
Wasn't it to find a better life?
rangersfan527
19 Sep 2009 #77
As for WHY Poland is saying they feel betrayed is because they sent troops to Iraq on a promise that this shield would be put up and Polands government found out about the new revaluation on Czech tv.

I didn't know Poland found out this from Czech television. Where did you hear this from?
wiesiek 1 | 36
19 Sep 2009 #78
But for us to lift visa restrictions on a counrty with a long history of its citizens not returning home and living here Illegally is ridiculous.

But its OK not to have restrictions on countries (Citizens) that have a history of causing terror in your country ie British subjects.
Babinich 1 | 455
19 Sep 2009 #79
Absolutely, approximately 25% of Americans have college degrees, however public colleges in US are on the level of European elementary schools.

Prove it.
Juche 9 | 292
19 Sep 2009 #80
I mean what has America ever done for Poland?

they have introduced a plethora of tasty options in the fast food service segment.
MareGaea 29 | 2,751
19 Sep 2009 #81
PlasticPole

I'm not saying everybody from PL should get their application for a Visa turned down. I stated that I can see the reason why they are tough on the Poles who do. But it's not only the Poles they are tough on. They are basically tough on everybody who wants a Visa. Except for the Visa Waiver Program, for me as a Dutchman it's just as tough to get a Visa to enter and stay in the US. I am not talking about the B1 and B2. However, this is getting harder too and always had the same conditions for me as for a Pole.

Will they ever change it? I don't know, maybe if Obama really gets the chance to make changes, then maybe, but I don't think that it will get any easier, considering the collective paranoya that has a hold of the Americans.

Eurola

This is what I was talking about :) But I know, Sokrates likes to disagree, maybe for the sake of it, even when he knows the other one is right.

M-G (anyway - good morning)
sledz 23 | 2,250
19 Sep 2009 #82
they have introduced a plethora of tasty options in the fast food service segment.

Its funny how everybody in Europe complains about McDonalds, KFC, etc

Yet there popping up all over the place,, somebody must like eating there????

What a silly comment. If people do not return when their visa expire it means either they cannot afford to return or they found better opportunities in the country they visited.

So its ok to Illegally stay in another country as long as you can find a better opportunity?

As for not being able to afford to return home, thats BS!

We will deport you at no charge:)
Seanus 15 | 19,674
19 Sep 2009 #83
Sledz has a solid point here. How about forward planning, ever thought of that? Your visa expiry date should be at the forefront of your mind. Plan well before and get some of those relatives in Zakopane to pay your flight costs if you can't get further employment.

It's not the problem of the US, they merely issue visas with clear conditions attached.
Crow 155 | 9,030
19 Sep 2009 #84
Do Poles in Poland really feel betrayed because there won't be any US Shield?

joke of the day. Definitely
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
19 Sep 2009 #85
Sledz has a solid point here. How about forward planning, ever thought of that? Your visa expiry date should be at the forefront of your mind. Plan well before and get some of those relatives in Zakopane to pay your flight costs if you can't get further employment.

It's not the problem of the US, they merely issue visas with clear conditions attached.

Seanus, you have a point here. Overstaying the Visa is something that shouldn't be encouraged and people should make good on their Visa whenever possible, however, this, alone SHOULD NOT be a reason to deny ANYONE a Visa! That's my point? Why should other Poles who haven't done anything, never overstayed a Visa be penalized because of the poor choices of others?

Statistically, we get more immigrants from Mexico and Latin America, so, if Poles were allowed the same opportunities to obtain Visas as others elsewhere, I doubt they would be the majority of Visas issued. So, what's the big deal? It does sound like discrimination. If you don't believe me, provide some good statistical data for the past ten years or so. Who are the immigrants and what countries are they from? You can pretty much assume if you have people coming from one particular area, like Mexico, a certain percentage overstay their Visas. People are not perfect.

Please read the topic of this thread in post #1, then try to stay on topic.
Ironside 53 | 12,448
19 Sep 2009 #86
Russia

Right wing government? Are you in your right mind:P

Visas
Sure, Polack are the worst scum on Earth, they multiply by millions and they will flood the Earth, **** even more of them then ****king Chinese!

...................................................................(my rant deleted)

As to the topic

No I don't feel betrayed.
Far from it, it was stupid idea from the start.
Sokrates:
As for Afghanistan, our reasons to withdraw:
- Nothing to gain
- No scores to settle
- Costs are eating us - we cannot afford it!
-Our Military forces are not being modernised because budged is consumed by our military involvement which benefit only USA.
Seanus 15 | 19,674
19 Sep 2009 #87
Well, it depends on the magnitude of the problem but they shouldn't be denied. The enforcement procedure should be better.
Sokrates 8 | 3,345
19 Sep 2009 #88
Prove it.

As for 25% Americans having degrees i already posted a link to this in this thread, dont be such an American and learn to read.

As for no statistics.

However according to the American security ministry (ICE) the government has no statistics allowing to calculate the amount of overstays because ICE is not able to calculate them.

In the rest of the article they say they can only give the amount of deported Poles, without the relation to Polish populace in USA, this basically means that you deny Visas based on pure prejudice.
ShortHairThug - | 1,101
19 Sep 2009 #89
Floods nearly always follow

That's not the kind of floods i would worry about if I wear from Netherlands.

That makes your entire post irrelevant.

I don't think so but since you brought it up, what dose the the subject of this post to do with US visas? Besides the fact that some stupid fvck of a Yank brought it up because he was disappointed in that fact that Poles actually don't give a damn about American shield so you had to throw in your expert opinion. No need to get upset, but since you did make a stupid remark you deserve what you got as an response. BTW they can shove those visas up where the sun don't shine, once they were sought by all and would kill for them (BTW so was toilet paper) not any more, times have changed you know. The opinion of America is changing fast in Poland.

The average American lives 3x the life you live.

Quick glance at Wiki would tell you otherwise, but it proves an even earlier point mentioned here, you do have the math skills of the community collage student, don't you? I remember seeing a program on CNN criticizing various health care systems around the globe and comparing them to US. Even the socialized health system of Canada (which was heavily criticized and where it was emphasized that you have to wait for the procedures for weeks on end) have a higher then you lifespan. You only repeat what you hear on TV but don't bother to check the facts, not everything that's said on TV can be taken at face value.

Your "average" American doesn't have to steal a Mercedes to feel like a big shot. How do like that generalization, P.ssmopper.

Your average American wouldn't know how, your previous post proved that point. They don't divulge this information on TV you would have to actually learn something about cars in general and about the alarm systems.
gumishu 13 | 6,134
19 Sep 2009 #90
In the rest of the article they say they can only give the amount of deported Poles, without the relation to Polish populace in USA, this basically means that you deny Visas based on pure prejudice.

this is just basic knowlegde that Poles do overstay - My uncle stayed some 4 years in NY after having travelled there on a tourist visa (or rather family invitation but it's quite irrelevant)

They were playing on sentiments which KaczyƄski aroused and which have been inculcated into many Poles, that Russia needs to be paid back.

I some how do not see any validity to what you state here - what do you mean paid back - Russia is playing aggressive towards Poland (if you don't know that I'd say you don't know enough) - Germany is playing along with Russia (allying itself with Russia) - Poles see little to no support from the EU (mainly because of countries like Germany, France and Italy) (or NATO) in our dealings with Russia - it is pretty obvious these countries follow their egoistic agendas - so fearing increasing pressure from Russia (pressure on Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Latvia, Lithuania is indirect pressure on Poland) Poland seeks some ally - America seemed to be a good candidate - but political realities change - I think America has lost much credibility around here backing off from the shield, unless it has some other ideas how to be present militarily in Central Europe and the shield was dropped for technicalities and/or financial issues - in short Poland does not have enough trust for Europe to defend its interest (or defend it militarily) against Russia - the situation here starts to resemble the one in 1939


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