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Do Poles in Poland really feel betrayed because there won't be any US Shield?


Crow 155 | 9,030
29 Sep 2009 #241
Some thoughts are best kept to youself.

true

If he hid in France for 30 years Poland would forgive him.

ahahahah ahahahah ahahahah
Nurglitch - | 5
30 Sep 2009 #242
krysia

Why are there so little patriots in Poland?

It's typical of post-colonial societies. Patriotism is an idea borne mainly by the educated classes, the elite. Those were slaughtered by nazis and the Soviets pretty much to extinction and then for 45 years the nation was enslaved and metodically demoralized. No wonder it is shattered - it will take a long time to recover.

As to the Shield - I'm glad we will not be graced by it. The entire matter was absurd. The Shield is supposed to protect the USA from ICBM attacks, we would gain nothing from it, quite the opposite really. It was in the USA's interest to make a good offer, offsetting increased danger from Russia or terrorists. Instead exactly the opposite happened - Polish governments begging on their knees for the Shield to be installed here, and the US governments spitting in our faces and wiping the floor with us. It was extremely humiliating, more so because it was self-inflicted. Now Obama is in bed with Putin, may even do a tour of Russian concentration camps some day or go bear-hunting with his new best friend, the Shield is no more and good riddance.
Seanus 15 | 19,674
5 Oct 2009 #243
Kaczyński seems to be offended. He is calling for a substitute. That little man has some balls with his tone.
szczeciniak 4 | 92
6 Oct 2009 #244
do they have anything to substitute? Maybe polish made rockets? from bumar

euranet.eu/eng/Today/News/English-News/Poland-ponders-own-anti-missile-shield

So instead, the Obama administration is planning to deploy in Europe the existing ship-based Aegis defense system, which is designed to intercept short- and intermediate-range missiles with a range of up to 2,000 kilometers. According to the plan, the United States will develop and field interceptors against longer-range missiles in the future.

where in Europe would it be deploy?
is this the substitute Kaczyński is calling for?
krakuskabanos 4 | 43
8 Oct 2009 #245
Instead exactly the opposite happened - Polish governments begging on their knees for the Shield to be installed here, and the US governments spitting in our faces and wiping the floor with us. It was extremely humiliating, m

very true.

do they have anything to substitute?
maybe polish made rockets? from bumar

maybe polish rockets in the shape of a kielbasa, mwahahahaha!
szczeciniak 4 | 92
8 Oct 2009 #246
in the shape of a kielbasa

haha
as long it is not in the shape of boomerang!!
queenjlo2003
31 Oct 2009 #247
I'm American and i feel betrayed!
MareGaea 29 | 2,751
31 Oct 2009 #248
Do Poles in Poland really feel betrayed because there won't be any US Shield?

Poles feel betrayed by everyone :)

>^..^<

M-G (fireworks continue for the kids)
scrappleton - | 829
31 Oct 2009 #249
Poles feel betrayed by everyone

Yep.. pretty much.
Seanus 15 | 19,674
31 Oct 2009 #250
Yup, have to agree here.

Have just heard that Hillary Clinton is in the ME. It's bad to say but I hope sb shakes her up. She has NO intention of bringing about a 2-state solution and I HATE her insincerity. I hope she gets physically booted out and sent home for being smarmy and insincere.

If she starts gibbering about the shield again, she should be slapped very hard :)
Chicago Pollock 7 | 503
20 Apr 2010 #251
Kasynski (sp?) requested missile system from Bush. Now that he's dead no need for missile system.
grubas 12 | 1,384
20 Apr 2010 #252
No,most of the Poles don't want to be America's shield.
Seanus 15 | 19,674
20 Apr 2010 #254
Well, Kaczyński likely didn't request it actually as he allowed the negotiations to become protracted. It was Sikorski that eventually signed it through PO.

Poles don't mind. It is far better now without it and with Russia's partnership in resolving issues.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 503
20 Apr 2010 #255
The Kaczynski's were Bush puppets.

If his death wasn't an accident (I don't know if it was or not) that's probably why he died.
Olaf 6 | 955
20 Apr 2010 #256
Having this system installed in Poland would give this country nothing but trouble: this would instantly cause Russia to direct a some of their missiles to Poland. Also it will not protect Polish teritory nor their neighbours so why the heck get into prospective trouble with Russia and tighten the relationships (language of diplomacy calls this actually butt-kissing) with the US instead with some European countries. For now it seems that Polish foreign politics are aspiring to make Poland the 51st state, regardless of the relationships in the rest of Europe.

I share the rather sceptic views of prof. Roman Kuźniar on that, he's an expert in this field
lowfunk99 10 | 397
20 Apr 2010 #257
this would instantly cause Russia to direct a some of their missiles to Poland

I am sure they already have missiles aimed at Poland. What would a few more do?
Olga 1 | 330
20 Apr 2010 #258
Are you not aware that U.S. Patriot missiles to be deployed in Poland within weeks??? The missile defence shield was simply amended, not withdrawn.

kyivpost.com/news/world/detail/64378/

No motive, you say?
Olaf 6 | 955
20 Apr 2010 #259
Who knows [Putin does;)]? Right now I guess there are little or no missiles and there'll be a hundred if the shield stands. But I assume they will not be used - what I mean is that together with the missiles the politics will change and talks with Russia will be different i.e. worse.
szkotja2007 27 | 1,498
20 Apr 2010 #260
Defence shield my ass - Patriots had a 10% "success" rate against Saddams ancient Scuds.

As reported by US - the actual figure may be lower.
Jed - | 165
20 Apr 2010 #261
I believe if Poles will feel safer with U.S. Patriot missiles - why not? It's always easier to talk if the partner feels safe. From pure military point of view there is nothing changed.

Global missile defense system put Russia in unsafe position degrading our strategic forces.

It's positions in Poland would really be a danger for Poles also - (1) putting them as a target for nucs and (2) anti-misssile missiles launch looks on radars too similar to ordinary nuc missiles and may trigger a war even when used against Iran.
mafketis 36 | 10,791
20 Apr 2010 #262
Haven't read the whole thread or anything, but my anegdotal evidence:

I haven't spoken with that many Polish people about this topic (and when I have it's been a transitory kind of topic) but not a single person I've spoken wanted the US shield.

My sample leans _heavily_ toward the urban and well-educated.

My first, best guess is this is a policy question that Pollish people who live elsewhere feel most strongly in favor of.
pawian 222 | 23,674
17 Feb 2013 #263
Do Poles in Poland really feel betrayed because there won't be any US Shield?

No.

Do Poles really think that they could be a risk of beeing invaded again or attacked by Russia their big neighbourg?

Yes.
Babinich 1 | 455
17 Feb 2013 #264
Pawian,

Do Poles feel that NATO "has their back" in the event Poland is attacked?
kondzior 11 | 1,046
17 Feb 2013 #265
LwowskaKrakow:
Do Poles in Poland really feel betrayed because there won't be any US Shield?

No.

However Obama making fun of Poland, giving us the launcher without amno, to play with for couple of months, before sending it back to unkle sam (with real rockets you'd hurt yourself, Poles) have been the last drop that made me start to see USA for what it really is.
goofy_the_dog
17 Feb 2013 #266
No,most of the Poles don't want to be America's shield.

What gives you a law to talk for 40 million people ??

I for once really wanted the american shield... why not?
For illiterate:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_defense_systems_of_various_nations

I dont see how something designed clearly for defense can be of any harm... although if people enjoy being attacked by enemy's ICBMs than I guess that the shield is not needed...

It is scary how easily people can be controlled...
Polson 5 | 1,768
17 Feb 2013 #267
It is scary how easily people can be controlled...

Well, that's exactly what the US want to do with Poland. They don't need an 'ally', they need a strategical place.
If you ask me, Poland doesn't need that shield. Who's gonna attack Poland, honestly? I actually think they will have greater 'chances' to be attacked once they're the US puppy and have that shield.

War, war, always war. Let the bloody Americans deal with their own wars, we don't need them here ;)
goofy_the_dog
17 Feb 2013 #268
Who r u working for, GRU or FSB ? ;)
Only idiots believe that in todays Political situation, a country can be ruled by itself, individually...

"Do you really mean it? Russia won't move, these dark times are behind. Russia has enough troubles to deal with, they don't need to 'attack' Poland."

Russia doesn't move, why? because of a joint effort of all the NATO countries. I just don't understand why don't you want the Shield?!

I would want it, just in case, if somebody will have some stupid ideas, and if Russians don't like this idea, as they say, it is a hostility to build the missile defence over POland, then people come on! If they don't want us to have defence then that clearly means that they want to attack us in near future... who knows maybe in a very near future?

By the end of the century there wil be only 16 millions of Polish people living in Poland... terrible, the country will be very weak by then, who knows maybe we will see another partitions taking place?

cheers
Polson 5 | 1,768
17 Feb 2013 #269
Only idiots believe that in todays Political situation, a country can be ruled by itself, individually...

Thanks for the compliment ;)
But it's not what I said. I'm just saying that Poland doesn't need to be anyone's puppet. It's time to decide for 'ourselves' and not let the 'big ones' rule us, little people.

Russia doesn't move, why?

Then tell me why would Russia move?
You can't live in fear forever, it's time to move on.

I just don't understand why don't you want the Shield?!
I would want it, just in case, if somebody will have some stupid ideas, and if Russians don't like this idea, as they say, it is a hostility to build the missile defence over POland, then people come on! If they don't want us to have defence then that clearly means that they want to attack us in near future... who knows maybe in a very near future?

So, just in case, give Palestine nuclear weapons, so they can defend themselves in case Israel attack them. With just-in-cases, you can re-do the whole world.

And give everyone a gun, so they can defend themselves in case 'somebody has stupid ideas'... ;)
If you think the US want to protect Poland from eeevil Russia, you're wrong, they don't give a sh... about Poland.

As I said, you can't live in fear of everyone forever. The Austro-Hungarian empire, Prussia, the Soviets, it's all over. Humans would benefit so much from peace. Especially if you consider the price of wars and stuff.
goofy_the_dog
18 Feb 2013 #270
bulshi_t, what part of missile DEFENCE shield dont u understand?
Armed with that, Poland wouldn not be allowed to attack countries that our enemies of centuries (btw, if you that has changed then you have serious problem, my friend :) ),

Why would Russia move, you say? It sounds as if the whole Russianj country decides about that stuff, and that is a nonsense, in reality the main power is held by Putin, couple of other peopple, and as you should know already, looking at history, power- corrupts, and such a great power of tenths opf thousands of nuclear weapons in the hands of so few, in a country that constantly going through turmoils, I think that any country placed very close to such foe, should be defended wisely and take ANY help that is offered.

Trust me when I say, that a country's policy doesn't change so radically ( from beign our greatest enemy USSR times) to a friendly and " peacufull" buahahahaha, ( Georgia? Chechnya?) country.

Not so long ago Putin said aloud what he thinks about Poland:
" Царство Польское"
An old term that Tsars used to describe colonial Poland, in the times of Partitions.

Cheers

Ps: Apart from that I wouldn't see anything from in Palestine acquring some heavy guns to defend from Israel ;)


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