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Poland in the European Union. Polexit?


Dirk diggler 7 | 3,793    :-(
28 Jan 2018  #151
PIS are a socialist party economically

Some of their policies are. I'd put it more towards populist though than really socialist.

FOUR European leaders have ordered Brussels to back down from its threat to block funding to Poland over judicial reform, accusing the bloc of favouritism, and of overstepping its boundaries

express.co.uk/news/world/910567/Visegrad-European-Union-rebels-Brussels-back-down-Poland-punishment

PL and Hungary steam rolling right over the commie EU globalists
Dougpol1 26 | 2,108    
28 Jan 2018  #152
.Poland wasn't/isn't some African or Asian country where the majority of people lived on a dollar or two a day.........th

They didn't? LOL.
The average Polish salary when I was married in the 80s was 40 dollars a month. You do the maths. My point was that the EU rescued Poland's infrastructure - something the country would not have been able to do on it's own thanks to an inability to use the right mix of concrete on its prior construction.

Probably because of widespread corruption ? Just a guess :)))
dolnoslask 5 | 2,132    
28 Jan 2018  #153
I hate the Katowice police and would set the dog on them

Hmm, I have never had that problem with police anywhere, well apart from bongo bongo where you pay em to leave you alone, whats wrong with zus and taxes the rate for what you get seems fair to me.

"So, where's the socialism?:))"

I figured you were a socialist when you said the below on an earlier thread.

"I am a (British) socialist through and through Dolno. Always voted Labour"

Hey if you have changed your political stance then thats fine either way.

Time to get back to blighty Doug Corbyn (labour party) is offering you a luxury flat

Jeremy Corbyn vows to let rough sleepers move into luxury flats: Labour would buy 8,000 homes and let councils 'take over' empty private properties if it wins power .

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5321691/Jeremy-Corbyn-vows-private-homes.html

before u start it's in the Guardian too lol
Dougpol1 26 | 2,108    
28 Jan 2018  #154
Hence it's 97% of it is our successes as Polish people.

Dirk. You have never lived here have you? I say again - ALL of the modern infrastructure revolution is paid for at least 2/3 out of EU funds. Without that Poland would still be in the dark ages aka commie land.

But a poster who enjoys arguing with himself can't see that simple fact. Probably because you don't know Poland. A long time ago I posted a picture of the by-pass that goes from Gdynia port up to the ring road. It stretches for 7 kilometres, crosses moraines, rises 350 metre or whatever, and is a terchnological marvel. As well as being totally necessary.

It cost 100,000,000 of those Brussels notes. The EU paid two thirds. Without that, the streets of Gdynia would still be blocked with container juggernauts. And it wouldn't have been built with out the EU. That is no slight on Poles and Poland. Where the holy crap would the money be coming from for all this?

Just a little appreciation of people who help to make your life a bit easier, getting to work, to play etc, a little bit faster, and safer wouldn't go amiss.

Oh! I forgot! You don't live here! But you feel fit to comment on OUR lives every single evening. Why aren't you on a Chicago forum or something instead? Just a thought....Here to help.
delphiandomine 87 | 16,799    
28 Jan 2018  #155
The average Polish salary when I was married in the 80s was 40 dollars a month.

And that was high - in places such as in SÅ‚ubice on the DDR border, the average salary was as low as 25 dollars a month in 1990.
cms 9 | 1,290    
28 Jan 2018  #156
Poland's minimum wage only crossed 1000 zloty in 2006. So plenty of people were working for less than 50 zloty a day. Unemployment was nearly 20 percent so you could employ people for peanuts. Many employers did not even want to spend that 1000 and there was a thriving grey labor market. It was not "a bit poorer" than Germany, it was many degrees poorer. You would not know any of that because you were probably at school in Chicago.

Without a doubt inward investment revolutionised the labor market here and made local employers both raise their wages and behave themselves fairly.
Dougpol1 26 | 2,108    
28 Jan 2018  #157
I am a (British) socialist

Yes I am. Britain can afford to do the decent thing. Poland is way behind, can't afford socialism, or PIS's brand of, and people should be tightening their belts and not spending what they can't afford. It's my money.

whats wrong with zus and taxes the rate for what you get seems fair to me.

So I take it you have never run a S.C. here Dolno? Otherwise you wouldn't make such a statement shirley?
dolnoslask 5 | 2,132    
28 Jan 2018  #158
EU rescued Poland's infrastructure

Hmm Doug the EU aka Germany spent the money to gain a buffer "Poland" between it Germany and a potential invader Russia, let the poles suffer a tactical nuke saving Germany the potential fallout, nato's little playground , das is goot yah dis polen getinzy the shizen.
cms 9 | 1,290    
28 Jan 2018  #159
Right - but what was in it for Austria, Sweden, Belgium or any of the other 10 net payers ? Nothing to do with wanting a buffer but everything to do with wanting a stable and prosperous democracy that they can trade with and wouldn't go up in flames like Bosnia
Dougpol1 26 | 2,108    
28 Jan 2018  #160
das is goot yah dis polen getinzy the shizen.

He he:) The Germans needed some good roads in Poland to deliver their badged goods to Kaufland. And could somebody please tell that bloody shop to stop with the silly jingle. At least I never had to listen to such rubbish at Spoolem in the '80s :))
dolnoslask 5 | 2,132    
28 Jan 2018  #161
The Germans needed some good roads in Poland to deliver their badged goods to Kaufland.

See we are no poles apart as for the silly jingle just play radio 2 via internet as for spoolem you were probably more worried about the frost bite after queuing for three hours, anyway Doug I still have a mountain of toothpaste in the uk as a legacy of those old days, but thats another story.
TheOther 5 | 3,531    
28 Jan 2018  #162
Hence it's 97% of it is our successes as Polish people.

Dream on, Adrian. Poland can be very proud of what it has achieved so far, no question, but don't be so cocky to claim that you did it with hardly any help from the outside. Without EU membership and funds and without foreign investment, Poland would still be a dirt poor ex-communist country with hardly any infrastructure or industry to speak of and a huge unemployment.

Would be beautiful

Nationalist Poles like you should demand a referendum to make sure that Poland leaves the EU. Seems you guys need to learn the hard way how valuable the EU really is for your country.

Nothing to do with wanting a buffer but everything to do with wanting a stable and prosperous democrac

Remember that it was Blair who initially wanted most of the former Warsaw Pact countries in the EU and NATO. It was in the strategic interest of the USA.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,132    
28 Jan 2018  #163
learn the hard way how valuable the EU really is for your country.

No not all of us we need to creame the maximum out of the EU, then get kicked out before paying a penny back.
TheOther 5 | 3,531    
28 Jan 2018  #164
And then what? Most international corporations moving away and taking the jobs with them. Millions of Poles being forced to return home and not finding a job. The Polish industry having to face international competition. You would go down before you can say "Oops", but hey ... no foreigners in the country ... :)
dolnoslask 5 | 2,132    
28 Jan 2018  #165
And then what? Most international corporations moving away and taking the jobs with them.

Wait and see Britain post brexit then u might see the future of poland, before that you are only making an assumption.
mafketis 16 | 6,145    
28 Jan 2018  #166
You don't understand recent polish history very well. The UK has never been an enthusiastic member of the EU and so it's not surprising they should prefer to concentrate on other international relations.

Poland has aspired to be in the European mainstream and has no similar international relations (apart form Russia).
Not similar at all.
Bieganski 17 | 907    
28 Jan 2018  #167
Most international corporations moving away and taking the jobs with them.

A specious argument.

If the posts on PF are anything to go by then most of the jobs in these international corporations are going to Indians and Pakistanis anyway and not Poles.

So good riddance to them if they decide to go.

As for the rest who have set up shop in Poland and have hired Poles to do the work they have been attracted to Poland in the first place by a lower cost, business friendly environment created by the Polish government along having access to a highly skilled Polish workforce. They didn't go to Poland due to bureaucratic EU diktats.
Tacitus 1 | 711    
28 Jan 2018  #168
@dolnoslask

Wait and see Britain post brexit then u might see the future of poland, before that you are only making an assumption.

Brexit is at best an indication for what could await Poland. The UK enjoys still several advantages that Poland doesnt have. The UK is a signficantly larger economy with a larger population, it is a net payer (although the British rabate does make the actual amount of money paid to Bruessels smaller). And perhaps most importantly, the ratio of EU citizens working in the UK versus British people working in other EU countries is in the UK's favour. Imagine how weak Poland's hand would be if it had to secure the rights of its' citizen in other EU countries.

And that leaves out security considerations, the UK does not deem Russia to be an existential threat, it has no border with it and the UK owns nuclear weapons.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,132    
28 Jan 2018  #169
You don't understand recent polish history very well.

Jolly good I feel suitably demeaned and put down '

But I beg to differ Poland is no different to the UK apart from 61 bn trade to the us .

But Achtung the top import origin for both is germany , so go figure who looses over 100 billion bum fluff.

atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/pol

atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr

EU gonna do nowt to Poland , Germany got bills to pay.
Ironside 47 | 9,187    
28 Jan 2018  #170
Nobody is attacking Poland,

Sure, German gov and German press are only tell honest to God truth. lol!

Without Germany, the Euro would have broken up,

the Euro sucks, the only country that is more or less OK with Euro is Germany, don't make any favors to the EU, honest.
G (undercover)    
28 Jan 2018  #171
Without EU membership and funds and without foreign investment, Poland would still be a dirt poor ex-communist country

And what Germany would be without the Marshall plan, half million foreign soldiers defending them from the commies and most of Europe where they can sell their goods non-taxed ? The whole "either you are in EU or will become the second North Korea" stuff is ridiculous.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,132    
28 Jan 2018  #172
half million foreign soldiers defending them from the commies

Hey but I get to listen to BFBS (British forces radio) for most of my drive time through Germany, better than 99 luft balon kraftwerk and that crazy hastlehoof .

Funny how da Brits still have to defend their old enemy, is it from themselves I ask.
Tacitus 1 | 711    
28 Jan 2018  #173
But I beg to differ Poland is no different to the UK apart from 61 bn trade to the us

The UK has twice the population size, its' trade is four times as high as Poland, and unlike Poland its' biggest single trading partner is not an EU country but the USA, yet you think they are comparable? And this is disregarding Poland's status as EU fund recipient, the number of Polish citizen abroad, and its' vulnerable geopolitical position.

@G (undercover)

And what Germany would be without the Marshall plan, half million foreign soldiers defending them from the commies and most of Europe where they can sell their goods non-taxed

Which is why nobody in German (even the AfD) questions Germany's EU membership. And as the polls indicate, most Polish people appreciate it as well.

The whole "either you are in EU or will become the second North Korea" stuff is ridiculous.

Nobody said anything about North Korea, that is just your exaggeration. Without the EU, Poland would be left significantly poorer over time, with possibly a lot of returnees who would not be very pleased of having to return to Poland, and it would be vulnerable to Russian influence. None of this is desireable for Poland.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,132    
28 Jan 2018  #174
EU fund recipient, the number of Polish citizen abroad, and its' vulnerable geopolitical position.

Look we were doing ok in the II republic, no EU no help, just the ruskies and nazis screwed us up. as for Polands population, go ask the Germans and ruskies why they decided to murder us by the million and systematically erase our intelligentsia.

We have always been vulnerable and we always will be, there were no foreign saviours of Poland in the past and no doubt there will be none in the future.

I set two free spaces at Wigilia , one for a unknown visitor and one with a candle for the family lost and subsequent generations that we would never meet.

You don't need to remind us where we stand, we know from our own history.
Ironside 47 | 9,187    
28 Jan 2018  #175
Without the EU, Poland

It would be nice if Germany would reconsider their position in regard to Poland.
TheOther 5 | 3,531    
28 Jan 2018  #176
They didn't go to Poland due to bureaucratic EU diktats.

No, it was globalization in action. Wages are always the biggest cost factor, so foreign investors took advantage of Poland's highly educated, yet comparatively cheap workforce. They exploited and still exploit the situation to manufacture products and provide services at a cost effective and competitive rate. The domestic market in Poland is not particularly interesting to most of these foreign investors; it's the markets to the west which they can access without the additional cost of import duties/ tariffs. And this is why Poland's membership in the EU is so important. Take away that advantage, and the country will face the consequences.

Wait and see Britain post brexit then u might see the future of poland, before that you are only making an assumption.

It's called common sense, Dolno. The Brits are having second thoughts already, and there are more and more voices that seem to be willing to consider a second referendum (according to some of the British news outlets). There's a reason for that.
Crow 145 | 7,373    
28 Jan 2018  #177
Let me tell truth to my Polish sisters and brothers, let me add to the reasons why Poles have to turn their back to EU. EU is monstrosity. Truly. One can hardly found words to describe it properly. But I will give it a try.

EU support Nazis, as well as Islamism. During Civil war in former Yugoslavia, there were examples were thanks to the EU and by sponsorship of EU, Catholics were put in situation to side with worse Arab mujaheedines. Then, when those mujaheedines turned against Catholics, EU didn`t move a finger to protect them. On the contrary, EU supported mujaheedines.

One other example from the Civil War in former Yugoslavia, from some 25 years ago. In cases when Nazi-clero-Catholic ustashe extremists surrounded the villages of Christian Orthodox Serbs and threatened them to convert to Catholicism or die, EU never criticized ustashe, never stooped them, never told truth to the world. Neither EU, neither NATO. On the contrary, EU rewarded such a behavior of ustashe. Yes, such is the EU. EU of 21st century. Think about it. Is that EU what Poles wanted?

So, see my Polish sisters and brothers, EU is pure evil. Everything is down-under in EU, all positive human values. Only greed of western European magnates count. Rest of us are infidels. Truly, right were those who compared EU to Stalin. I`m telling you its all the same.

Save yourself from EU, Poles. Run, run from that evil.
Tacitus 1 | 711    
28 Jan 2018  #178
It would be nice if Germany would reconsider their position in regard to Poland.

What kind of position?
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,793    :-(
29 Jan 2018  #179
but don't be so cocky to claim that you did it with hardly any help from the outside.

Of course we did. We owe the EU NOTHING.... absolutely NOTHING... The EU funds, which are less than 3% of Poland's annual GDP, are for further investment - they are not a gift. We don't owe anything more than Germany or Malta or Lithuania does to anyone in EU.

Unlike a bunch of European countries like Greece, Bulgaria, etc, Poles managed their economy wisely and didn't squander funds on stupid stuff even before 2004. The EU funds surely helped, but our decisions were far more important - like not implementing the stagnant euro and weathering the global recession perfectly while Germany, France, UK performed terribly.

Save yourself from EU, Poles. Run, run from that evil.

The most important thing is to spread facts like that the EU funds are but a miniscule fraction of Poland's GDP and we can easily trade with other nations. We don't need to be beholden to a government institution that Poles never voted for yet tell us what to do inside our sovereign borders. The more EU pushing leftist diktates and asks Poland to take in migrants, the more Poles will be turned off by the EU. Atleast the French dudes in the EU realized their mistakes and have now called for amending their relationship with Warsaw and clearly stated there is no threat to Poland's funds up to 2020. Not the Germans though - they just want everyone to be miserable too. Terrorism, sexual assaults, and constant problems thanks to uncontrolled migration in all EU nations - that's their idea of solidarity.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,793    :-(
29 Jan 2018  #180
Poland would still be a dirt poor ex-communist country

First off, communism was overthrown a decade and a half BEFORE EU and PRL system was crumbling well before then, and yes, there was plenty of catching up to do in the early 90's, but by late 90's and early 2000's Poland was already in a great place - hence why it was taken into the EU and given more INVESTMENT funds than any other nation that joined in 2004 or at any other time.

And no, in the 90's there were plenty of Mercedes, BMW's, and even a few Maseratis in Wroclaw not to mention Warsaw. My uncle had one of only 3 corvette's in the country and that was in some poor ass little town of 100k people. Plenty of people travelling to and from PL/US/Germany etc. If you can a bag you could do it whether it was PRL, 90's, or today. Although wages were smaller, costs of living were far smaller relative to income than they are today. There's no buying a hectare in the city outskirts or suburbs for $10 $20k today that's for sure.

If we didn't have punks like Kwasniewski and co bringing in brigades of foreigners to buy up assets for way below market prices (which were already far lower than anything in western Europe or even Czechoslovakia)

What the non-Poles fail to realize is that most Poles, namely the conservative types, who allowed PiS to sweep the election and are the reason for PiS having 2-3x the support of 2nd place losers PO, aren't willing to give up their sovereignty and take in a bunch of radical migrants 'carrying all sorts of diseases and protozoa (as our president famously said) nor will they oblige the EU diktates just because it means an extra 11.7 bln a year for the state to spend. Besides, the gravy train is over. We're expected to be a net payee. Better to just leave now than have Polish citizens' money being spent on Ahmed and his soccer team of kids or Swedish cross dressing kindergartens.

And if the frogs in the EU leadership don't keep a muzzle on their migrant loving german counterparts, it's not going to end pretty - and not for PL but for the EU. Each battle EU has picked with Poland they lost - there was never a 2 bil fine for migrants, no 100k a day for bialowierza, their article 7 is totally doomed, and now even timmermans along with 4 other EU nation leaders that Poland does NOT have to listen to any BS about constitutional courts to keep receiving money



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