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Poland in the European Union. Polexit?

TheOther 6 | 3,692
2 Mar 2018 #211
While I agree with these tariff's I do not think that they should include America's military allies.

If you look at the top five exporters of steel and aluminum to the US you will see that Trump's tariffs hit Canada the most. As a side note: many of China's exports in this sector are based on raw materials from Australia, so he will hurt them as well. The guy has strange preferences.
Dirk diggler 10 | 5,009
2 Mar 2018 #212
Good. Screw Trudeau. Like Trump said - no more stupid deals that screw over Americans. On day 1 Trump cancelled TPP - that saved so many blue collar workers' jobs. It would've been another NAFTA
portalru - | 2
5 Mar 2018 #213
Look at Italy's elections. The interesting times for EU are ahead.
Lyzko 33 | 8,313
5 Mar 2018 #214
Indeed. Grillo's party lost to the Populists! Bad times for democracy, my friends.
jon357 71 | 20,367
5 Mar 2018 #215
Political instability is not unusual for Italy.
Lyzko 33 | 8,313
5 Mar 2018 #216
Yeah, but this sort if political upset's starting to remind me of the US. Well, we can all agree that Berlusconi's the Italian, perhaps the European, Trump incarnate.

Only difference is, Berlusconi's probably got a better singing voice:-)
Tacitus 2 | 1,830
6 Mar 2018 #217
And he was actually a succesful buisnessman... .
TheOther 6 | 3,692
6 Mar 2018 #218
The interesting times for EU are ahead.

Maybe we are seeing the beginning of a "reset" -- the dissolution of the EU and its immediate resurrection with a small number of members such as Ireland, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Sweden and Finland.
Dirk diggler 10 | 5,009
6 Mar 2018 #219
I hope berscolini wins

Legia nord and the camp are legit too

Poland would prolly get along great with him bc hes taking a tough stance. Right now italys complaining that polamd isnt taking their fair share. We can take some that are educated hard working and willing to assimilate but not just a bunch of random people. Poland prefers to provide border security as a show of solidarity but thay doesnt get talked about in media
Atch 17 | 4,043
7 Mar 2018 #220
Tajani is being recalled from the EU to run for Prime Minister so if Berlusconi wins there'll be a new President for the European Parliament, probably Mairead McGuiness from Ireland.
mafketis 34 | 12,213
7 Mar 2018 #221
While here does the Irish government really plan to increase the population by one million by 2040... where will the people come from?
Dirk diggler 10 | 5,009
7 Mar 2018 #222
Theyll probably import economic migrants from a totally distant culture. And just like the other cucked nations who did the same, ireland too will have to spend decades and billions providing food, housing, schooling and phamplets that tell the newcomers they cant simply grope and rape women. Even though they could learn from the polish example which dealt with aging population amd need for workers by taking in people from a similar culture that actually want to work and not que for freebies
Atch 17 | 4,043
8 Mar 2018 #223
As is usual in Ireland, the public is being asked for suggestions:

We have a well integrated Muslim population already and Poles have finally settled in nicely having been a regular feature in the Irish courts at first with disproportionately high offences for assault and drink driving. Then they learned that's not culturally acceptable in Ireland and they've calmed down and adapted well.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,070
8 Mar 2018 #224
assault and drink driving. Then they learned that's not culturally acceptable in Ireland

Atch I can remember the hard working, drinking, fighting Irish navis of the 60's in Britain, we share a colourful joint history, glad we have all calmed down now, bit of a shame really there was always that anticipation of excitement when I used to see an empty bottle of whiskey wizzing down the street with a subtle rude remark in a very broad Irish accent.
Dirk diggler 10 | 5,009
8 Mar 2018 #225
Well it doesnt appear the residents of this town had much of a say whwther to suddenly imcrease the population by a third
mafketis 34 | 12,213
8 Mar 2018 #226
We have a well integrated Muslim population already

The tendency in western countries is that the larger the muslim population the less well integrated they become. Muslim cultures are largely conformist and when they don't have other muslims around to monitor them they integrate more, when the number of muslims is large enough they tend to become conformist and regressive as they value the opinions of their co-religionists more than any non-muslim majority....

A better source for immigration might be Latin America where they _really_ like western europe and are likely to disappear into the larger population pretty quickly.
Lyzko 33 | 8,313
8 Mar 2018 #227
Like Trump, Berlusconi is more of what we here in the States might term instead a successful "monkey-businessman" aka someone with many fingers in several different pots simultaneously, engaging in risky, questionable ventures:-)
Atch 17 | 4,043
9 Mar 2018 #228
Well it doesnt appear the residents of this town had much of a say whwther to suddenly imcrease the population by a third

If you mean Lisdoonvarna the town has about 500 residents and are willing to take 30 of the 115 asylum seekers due to be placed in a centre there. There is a meeting taking place in the next few days with the government to discuss reducing the proposed number due to a public vote taken a couple of days ago in which the town voted by 93% majority to refuse the 115. We'll wait and see but the people will be heard, that's for sure.
Dirk diggler 10 | 5,009
9 Mar 2018 #229
If 93% voted to reject the 115 why is there even a discussion? People said we don't want em - plain and simple. So what more is there to discuss? Lemme guess, now they'll keep pressuring the townspeople to at least take a significant chunk out of the 100.
Crow 157 | 10,850
9 Mar 2018 #230
Here is my prediction of possible scenario

You know when would happen Intermarium? Intermarium begins to form within crumbling European Union at a moment when Poland stand up and openly support Serbia, while Visegrad countries join in and strengthen the argument. So, there won`t be Polexit. There would be rebellion. Poles and Serbs would initiate transformation of EU and separation of Slavic and Slavic friendly countries to come with us in Intermarium. Russia, US, China and Vatican would give us support so western Europe won`t be able to stop this process.
mafketis 34 | 12,213
9 Mar 2018 #231
the town voted by 93% majority to refuse the 115. We'll wait and see but the people will be heard, that's for sure.

Yeah, it'll be "We hear you! And there's nothing you can do to stop us from sending the 115 here!"
SigSauer 4 | 397
10 Mar 2018 #232

Seems it would make more sense to send 2 or 3, or a family, to individual cities across the country. No need to concentrate them in one location and then no worries about them building mosques.
Atch 17 | 4,043
12 Mar 2018 #233
They can't do that because these people are asylum seekers who have to go through a long process before they're accepted and allowed to remain permanently in the country. Logistically they like to keep them together. It's not uncommon for it to take two years before they receive the final decision on acceptance or rejection. There are other direct provision centres scattered around the country and there have never been any major problems as a result but I agree with the residents of Lisdoonvarna that over a hundred is too high for such a small rural community. Although there is no question that these people would remain permanently in the area, it's just not a good idea. My feeling is that they will be housed there initially and then re-distributed to other centres around the country.

As for them building mosques, that's not very likely with only 600 in total spread all over the country.

Ireland does a good job at integrating people but we need to keep an eye on it to ensure that continues. The funny thing is that if you talk to locals. they lump "Eastern Europeans" as they call them in with all other immigrant groups and will tell you that the Eastern Europeans integrate more easily because they can go to the pub :D Poles certainly were seen as quite different culturally when they first arrived in Ireland. It was mostly young, single males with a low level of education and they didn't make the best impression. They were seen as very dour, rude and even aggressive by Irish standards but that's not the case now. Those who remained mellowed out a lot. The macho culture is not big in Ireland, and of course once the wives and girlfriends joined them their lives normalized.

I think one of the reasons people end up integrating well in Ireland is because the country is very small and as an island, which is not quite European, it has a very strong cultural identity and if you live outside of Dublin you get sucked into it. It's impossible to avoid it. There's no doubt whatsoever that our national Gaelic games of hurling and Gaelic football are massively important as a cultural unifier and they're hugely promoted in schools so kids grow up playing them.
SigSauer 4 | 397
12 Mar 2018 #234
I notice Atch that you mention their small numbers, relative to the population of Ireland. This is a very smart policy, one which the rest of the EU member states would be wise to copy. Setting strict numbers on who can enter and how many from where, and where they are placed within the country. One piece of information that those who support these immigration policies never seem keen to answer is when I ask them, what is the number? How many immigrants can country 'X' accommodate per year? We have the same debates in America about what the cap should be, per year. The Democrats are always unwilling to commit to a number. Of course, this is an absolutely essential thing for any country with finite resources, as population increases result on heavier use of infrastructure, hospitals, schools, and emergency services. It's now a proven fact that unfettered low-skilled low-wage immigration is NOT a net positive for a country. So why we would continue pursuing such disastrous policies is beyond me. I can do with being called immoral if it ensures that the American and European way of life continue, and that the social fabric and traditions are maintained.
Atch 17 | 4,043
12 Mar 2018 #235
I think you would find this interesting reading:

Click on any one of those reports and you'll find it very informative.

Every month the Reception and Integration Agency of Ireland publishes extremely detailed stats for the current situation relating to refugees/asylum seekers. This information is at the fingertips of the public if they want to know exactly how many asylum seekers are in the country, what their nationalities are, where they're located right down to the address of the buildings they're housed in and the detailed archive allows you to compare results from previous years. I can tell you after reading one of those reports, that last year 50 asylum seekers found their way into Ireland via Romania and were sent back.

Now, one of the strong aspects of Irish political and social culture is availability of information. This kind of freely and easily accessible information is not common in Poland. What's the case in America?? I think it's vital.

Oh and we also have a policy that migrants cannot exceed more than 1% of the population in the catchment area for the local Health Executive so as not to put an undue strain on public services.
SigSauer 4 | 397
12 Mar 2018 #236
I think that's a brilliant and quite sensible policy and system of disseminating information. There is a plethora of information on legal immigration to the United States, obviously this information is heavily tracked. I think the quotas you stated are reasonable, I'd like to see legal immigration brought down to about 100,000-300,000 persons per year in the United States, versus 1.49 million last year.
Atch 17 | 4,043
12 Mar 2018 #237
I should clarify, that by the 1%, I mean either asylum seekers or economic migrants from non-EU countries, who come without offers of work. As far as the profile of the country goes, we have about 15% foreign nationals with Poles and English being the largest number. The profile of Ireland is still 95% white and Christian. Scare mongering about Muslim hordes really irritates me as it's simply not true, and it certainly isn't true that Ireland will be bringing in a million immigrants by 2040 to boost the population. We have the highest fertility rate in Europe, due ironically in a good part to the Poles and other accession country immigrants whose own countries have aging populations. People automatically equate 'immigrant' with Muslim but as our demographic shows, that's not always the case. We have a 15% non-Irish population but hardly any Muslims.

I think immigration policies have to be sensible. It should be divided between economic migrants and humanitarian refuge for those fleeing war. I certainly don't think that immigration should be used as a way of dealing with an aging population. It should only form part of an overall long-term plan to deal with falling birthrates. And one has to realize that having let's say a 20% foreign national population in your country today, may mean 40% a few generations from now. As long as they integrate it's ok. I mean I don't care what his religion is, what colour his skin is or if his name is Paddy Murphy, Paddy Kowalski, Paddy Mogambo or Paddy Patel as long he's Paddy, if you know what I mean :)) He has to have a sense of Irishness and then I'm ok with it.

I think the whole immigration thing is a different story for every country and is not a one size fits all model.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,352
12 Mar 2018 #238
the dissolution of the EU and its immediate resurrection with a small number of members

Not possible as a sort of a smooth process at all. Brussels should be forced to reform itself first as no one is going to buy such a trick, even those who are supposed to be taken on board as a result of this 'resurrection'.

Look at Italy's elections. The interesting times for EU are ahead.

Those interesting times certainly mean that the European elites will be forced to stop their usual chanting 'Show must go on' like they have been doing all the time up to now.

The recent developments in Slovakia - a country which recently adopted the euro - where a 27-year old investigation journalist has been shot dead in his home together with his fiancee, brought wide-spread speculation about the dark links between the Slovakian government and the Italian mafia 'Ndrangheta over the defaudation of the European funds which case Jan Kuciak was investigating. The hugely-complcated beaurocracy that reigns over Europe these days thanks to the elites in Brussels make this kind of fraud possible every time state institutions decide to cooperating with the mafia. A similar case of a journalist killed because of investigating fraud at the governmental level took place in Malta not a long time ago. Greece's case of fiscal cheating has shown how easy it was to carry on with it and how Brussels was blind to it for years despite its famous bureaucratic procedures aimed at controlling everything.
Tacitus 2 | 1,830
12 Mar 2018 #239
Brussels should be forced to reform itself

Indeed, and there are very promising signs for this. Merkel and Macron will no doubt instigate great changes this year.

. The hugely-complcated beaurocracy that reigns

I hope you are not implying that the EU is any way responsible for the problems in Slovakia, when in fact the EU is usually cited (including by colleagues of the murdered journalist) as the main factor to keep those tendencies in check?

with it and how Brussels was blind to it for years

Again, the problem here was not the EU being blind to it, because even if it had been aware, there was nothing it could have done anyway. The memberstates have still reserved themselves the final decision-making in most cases, and as we are currently seeing with Poland, the EU can hardly interfere even when the rule of law is at stake. Even when Greece literally depended on the help of others, the influence on it was limited.

If we look at it objectively, most problems we currently have are not because of Bruessels' power, but because of its' impotence.
mafketis 34 | 12,213
12 Mar 2018 #240
Merkel and Macron will no doubt instigate great changes this year.

Is that a joke? They certainly have no mandate for any such thing since they hold no formal positions in Brussels.
Also, Macron's ratings have not been impressive lately and it took Merkel six months to form a government and she's maneuvered herself into the unenviable position of being unable to address the problems that weakened her because to do so would be seen as strengthening the dreaded AfD...

The message from voters in lots of countries has been to slow down on the pan EU integration already, it's not wanted.

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