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What Polish diaspora need and expect from Poland, from Poles in Poland?


Crow 160 | 9,033
3 Aug 2010 #1
very interesting question, i believe. Let us talk or even better- let Poles talk. Poles from inside and from outside of Poland.
gromit - | 6
12 Aug 2010 #2
We expect from Poles to not to be racists as they are, according to the comments posted on "interia.pl", "wp.pl" , "onet.pl" etc.

All comments indicate that most Polish citizens hate everyone around, they hate Americans, Jews, Arabs, Catholics and themselves. These portals claim that comments can be posted after moderator apporved this , it means that is what they support officially...

I guess most of these posts are published by ex-communists and their kids.
sobieski 106 | 2,118
12 Aug 2010 #3
very interesting question, i believe. Let us talk or even better- let Poles talk. Poles from inside and from outside of Poland.

You mean, like a Serb Ottoman asking this question ?
OP Crow 160 | 9,033
12 Aug 2010 #4
sobieski

its just sad to me when idiot uses nick name such is `sobieski`. Other is fine. You have right to satisfy your idiotism. Even publicly
skysoulmate 13 | 1,276
12 Aug 2010 #5
What we need? Not sure I understand your question?
Seanus 15 | 19,672
12 Aug 2010 #6
Crow, what would be your answer? Remember that the Polish diaspora has spread far and wide. Poles tend not to treat one another that well in the UK from hearsay. It's a dog-eat-dog world for many. Also, no offence but Serbia hardly treated Kosovan Serbs that well either. They left them out on a limb and let them fend for themselves. When you move away from your own kind and move back, they treat you differently. I was called 'The Oriental Boy' when I came back from Japan (by college teachers). I felt like punching those old cnuts off their chairs and wiping the grin off of their faces.
OP Crow 160 | 9,033
12 Aug 2010 #7
What we need? Not sure I understand your question?

What you feel that Poland needs to do (what kind of regime, politics, etc.) in order to satisfy its diaspora?
Seanus 15 | 19,672
12 Aug 2010 #8
I think many Poles are satisfied just to be away from Poland and I mean that in a good way. They can carve out a better life elsewhere. Why should Tusk worry about them when they are resourceful enough to make sth of themselves elsewhere? Ever heard of an expat policy, Crow? I haven't!

It is more Serbia that needs to address this issue, Crow. They were overly focussed on domestic issues and some Kosovan Serbs couldn't even eat due to oppressive Albanian policies in Kosovo. I don't think an independent future Scottish government would allow that in its surrounding islands.
OP Crow 160 | 9,033
12 Aug 2010 #9
Crow, what would be your answer? Remember that the Polish diaspora has spread far and wide.

simplistically speaking..

imagine what would happen to Poland if all those Poles abroad expect that Poland become same or similar to the all those countries where they live and rise their children?

and they could expect exactly that. For all kind of reasons. For example, Poles in USA could expect that Poland adopt English language as official just because it can suits to business interests of Polish diaspora in USA. Same could be desire of Polish diaspora in Canada, Australia. Poles who live in Germany might desire that Poland adopt German language as official. Poles abroad may expect that Polish government coordinate with governments of countries where live Polish diaspora, again because of particular interests of Polish diaspora in general or of some circles inside of Polish diaspora. But, are those particular interests identical with interests of Poles in Poland?

Serbia

Serbia also has wide spread and numerous diaspora. For example, more then 300.000 Serbs live in Chicago, USA.
Seanus 15 | 19,672
12 Aug 2010 #10
Crow, there has always been and always will be interest groups and they contribute to the shaping of political developments. However, that's all they do. Business concerns are paramount as we know. However, the Polish goverment should let things take their own course. Look at the proposed Moosin MMA event for the 9th of Oct. They want Mariusz Pudzianowski to fight in Chicago as they know that he will draw in the Polish contingent. He fought against Tim Sylvia in Massachussets (in the NE), an eastern boy in the US, and he had 60% of the crowd. Sylvia had less support amongst his own people. They can enjoy a show without expecting any more.

Do you know where Chicago-based Poles send most of their money, Crow? Any idea?
OP Crow 160 | 9,033
12 Aug 2010 #11
Do you know where Chicago-based Poles send most of their money, Crow? Any idea?

i hope that they invest in Poland or Serbia, at least.
Seanus 15 | 19,672
12 Aug 2010 #12
It's largely sent back to Zakopane, a beautiful mountainous part of Poland that you may have heard of, Crow. That's why you see lovely villas and 'chaty' there :) They have many relatives there and it's a touristic hotspot here in Poland.

Góraly mieszkają tam :) :) You'd love Polish highlanders, Crow :) Full of spirit :) :)
eaglesdaughter
10 Aug 2011 #13
I am the daughter of two WW2 Diaspora Poles. I visited Poland in the early 2000s with my father. Poland is beautiful. We stayed with relatives (dad's brother). They provided super hospitality in the form of sleeping accommodations and food. My aunt is a gourmet cook. They showed us Cracow and Warsaw, which also was beautiful.

However, when I called my dad's brother "wujek" (uncle), he laughed at me and gave me a look like, "Get real." (!) Also, my dad had been very generous (money-wise) to his brother and family in the past, giving substantial cash gifts which enabled my dad's brother to build a good house in Poland. My aunt went out of her way to concoct a story that they had held onto the U.S. dollars so long they depreciated and were worthless. (In other words, that the Polish family alone had accomplished building their home by themselves.) I truly disliked that she attempted to diminish my dad's contribution. She didn't succeed however as Dad and I both knew she was lying. Also, except for a half-sister of my Dad's and the employees at a place where my uncle had worked, my aunt and uncle didn't introduce us to any of their extended friends/family.

The other thing I really disliked was how, during our visit, they made it obvious they wanted more of Dad's cash. Being the generous person he was, he had intended to give them a significant amount of money at the end of our stay. They gave signals of disgruntlement and Dad, who read their body language easily, ended up giving them chunks of money every couple of days. It was gross and shameful on their part. THey were doing quite well at that point and didn't need to shake my Dad down like that. If they had had true brotherly/family love for Dad, they would have refused his money. I still correspond with them (cards at Christmas and Easter), but I feel cool toward them for treating Dad like that. Dad, of course, took it all in stride. As a Diaspora Pole deported from Poland forcibly by the Soviets in WW2, he'd seen the worst of human nature and nothing was a surprise. But I remain offended on his behalf. He deserved more honor and gratitude from his brother and family, and less of their viewing him as a source of cash.
pip 10 | 1,658
10 Aug 2011 #14
it is nothing new I am afraid. My husbands family is the same way. His aunt is a horrible horrible mean old hag with no amount of goodness in her crotchety old body.

a lot of it comes from communism and having to fight and find everything.
Seanus 15 | 19,672
10 Aug 2011 #15
Communism certainly reared such grouchy sorts. I don't think they can expect any help from good-minded people.

Crow, Poles earn enough in America to help build things for their families back here.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,288
10 Aug 2011 #16
The Polish diaspora doesn't need anything from Poland. We expect that Poland will remember her history and help the downtrodden in Poland as well as in the international area.
f stop 24 | 2,501
10 Aug 2011 #17
What Polish diaspora need ...???
I'm beginning to dislike that word: diaspora. Crows pet word. I don't think it is meant to indicate people, but the movement of people, first of all. And why not exodus? dispersion? migration?
pip 10 | 1,658
10 Aug 2011 #18
i think you guys need to read the new post of today. it doesn't have much to do with the op. why do so many posts get merged?? it really alters the temat of the post.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,288
10 Aug 2011 #19
F-Stop diaspora literally means dispersal of seeds. I will grant it is a bit phallocentric, but it is still an apt word to describe Polonia. Did you know that after the USA the largest group of Polonia in any country is in Brazil? Just imagine how many cool, laid-back, samba dancing Polonians we never hear from here because this is an English language forum rather than a Portugese one.
f stop 24 | 2,501
10 Aug 2011 #20
I've been eyeing Brazil for a while now. I'd love to spend some time there.
Alien 21 | 5,195
3 Feb 2024 #21
Poles abroad expect only one thing from Poland; so that they don't have to be ashamed of Poland. Unfortunately, many people develop a shame syndrome which I will call Nowichok Syndrome. Good thing I didn't develop it.
Poloniusz 4 | 739
3 Feb 2024 #22
Depending on the country, Poles who temporarily reside or migrate abroad don't tend to have or show any in-group preference due to their personal, social and economic circumstances in these other countries.

In-group preference can also be based on an expectation of reciprocity. You would have to go back to the First and Second Republics and the Polish Government in Exile to see Polish governments actively interested in and involved with the Polish diaspora. Poland under communism forever changed that relationship and all you have to do is read any post on PF from the PRL crowd to see first hand the wild anti-Polonia sentiment.

As far as being ashamed of Poland, unfortunately Poland is rarely if ever talked about in other countries. And when Poland is discussed it almost always is in reference to a negative foundation myth centered around the Holocaust and everything Jewish.
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,205
3 Feb 2024 #23
@Poloniusz

It's due to poor education system, especially in certain western countries with a very dumbed down thought process. I remember my sister stopped talking about holocaust and ww2 when saying that she had family members experiencing concentration camps. They automatically assumed her to be Jewish, no matter how much she tried to explain things.

Can't cure stupid
Poloniusz 4 | 739
3 Feb 2024 #24
a very dumbed down thought process

Yes it is. Deliberately so.

I would add that laws in certain countries forbidding any questioning of events would also frighten and deter people from merely stating a fact that there were many other victims (literally in the hundreds of thousands and millions) who weren't Jewish.

Their stories are valid too but they have been systematically ignored or completely downplayed for decades.
Novichok 4 | 8,179
3 Feb 2024 #25
to see first hand the wild anti-Polonia sentiment.

I guess we were too contaminated for any redemption and forgiveness...
Poloniusz 4 | 739
3 Feb 2024 #26
I sense the PRL-era Polonia-haters have always suffered from jealousy; especially the material success of Poles who left for the West because they refused to capitulate to communism.

Even though Polonia like Pope John Paul II, Zbigniew Brzezinski and many others played a public and private role in supporting Poland to castoff the shackles of communism the jealousy still lingers.

This is evident by having policies which only court and speak out on behalf of the interests of Polonia living in former communist countries. Sure this is done for political leverage and make those government look bad if they don't protect their Polish minorities. But it also conveniently addresses the issue of PRL envy since the Polonia in these former communist countries aren't likely to be rich and instantly land at the upper levels of society if they decide to move to Poland.

I've been at events where some of these PRL fossils would openly complain that Polonia doesn't lobby for Poland the way Jews do for Israel. When asked what Poland is going to do in return for Polonia they never have an answer.

Meanwhile, in the Sejm:



Polish speaker faces criticism for posing with Belarus border crossers in parliament

"Since 2021, tens of thousands of migrants and refugees - mostly from the Middle East, Asia and Africa - have tried to cross there with the help of the Belarusian authorities..The photograph was shared on social media by Fundacja Ocalenie, a Polish NGO that helps migrants who have crossed the Belarus border."

notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/23/polish-speaker-faces-criticism-for-posing-with-belarus-border-crossers-in-parliament/
Lenka 5 | 3,530
3 Feb 2024 #27
I would say more Polonia being behind on changes happening in Poland, lingering in their memories ( or even worse their parents and grandparents memories).
Poloniusz 4 | 739
3 Feb 2024 #28
On the contrary, it's posters like yourself whose knowledge of Polish history and Poland's place in the world goes no further than the communist memories of their parents and grandparents.





jon357 74 | 22,389
3 Feb 2024 #29
I would say more Polonia

You're right. It's changing though.

60 years ago, people who'd moved from Poland to, say, Britain, needed a powerful radio set to get news and unless they lived near a Polish Club or a church that had Mass in Polish, they'd not even get the newsletters or have contact with other people who spoke their first language. Now, people who moved post-2004 can watch M Jak Miłość online or look at the news on Onet or a ton of other websites. It's made a real difference. The world is getting smaller.

People whose grandparents or great grandparents left a century ago are more Polish diaspora than Poles and often not even that.
Lenka 5 | 3,530
3 Feb 2024 #30
posters like yourself whose knowledge of Polish history and Poland's place in the world goes no further than the communist memories

The thing is posters like me don't need to relay on those because they actually experience Poland on regular basis.


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