Will America send troops to fight a Russian invasion of Baltics and/or Poland?

There was a point which was that we don't give a crap about your stupid little problems. Europe has used up all American patience and the desire to die for you. You have enough people, money, and the nukes. Get lost.

The usual ray of sunshine from a pointlessly posting wiseguy. Meanwhile, US troops are stationed here in Poland. Whether that's for Poland's benefit or as part of a broader issue is obvious. Russia is a danger; give them an inch and they'll take a mile. That mile will be the shortest route straight over the Arctic with SS25s and perhaps even a Tsar Bomba or two...

So as the Pentagon (who've spoken about the issue of Putinist expansionism) very clearly understand and our resident loudmouth wiejski mądrala very clearly doesn't, these problems are neither 'stupid' nor 'little'.

...okay guys....come down all....there won't be any nuclear war in Europe....

Crimea was alot like the Sudetenland....the West hesitated to call Putin out on it because it always has been a disputed territory with most of the people living there not especially unhappy about coming back to Mother Russia.

But that was it! Any other land grabbing will not be disputed at all...

And economical sanctions and political isolation hurt alot more....you have seen it with Lukashenko. The only thing he will get out of it is making the EU rethink real high real stable outer borders!

PS: China wants to get back Taiwan, they will have their hands full with that soon too...

Of course not. Not in the sense we all feared back in the 80s. The bombs are smaller and the targets no longer civilian.


And thus he's going several steps further. At least the UK and France are relatively safe,

I doubt it....he is no Hitler....if something Putin has enough its territory and "Lebensraum".....and besides the Crimea there isn't anything else really disputed, or is there?


I really don't see the future default lines between Russia and the EU or anywhere in Europe for that matter. We had our time and that is history!

The real future wars will between China and allies and the West and allies.....and in that conflict all need to chip in or all will lose....geography won't save anybody then!

He's Putin. And he's thinking about his legacy.


History has an unfortunate habit of repeating itself. We've had 75 years of peace (albeit with a cold war for half of that time). It is dangerously naive to expect that to continue.


China won't hurt their own markets and have their own long term plans. Russia's dangerous plans are shorter term and we are seeing troop mobilisations right now.

Yeah....and getting his country again isolated and treated like a pariah is his goal, you think?

He could and did book Crimea under "successes" because of the Russians there....as with the Sudetenland and Hitler....a felt huge injustice got straighened out.

But Ukraine? The Baltics? What beef have the common Russians there? How should war there help him? Don't forget the powerful russian oligarchy which wants to trade and to travel and enjoy the nice life in the West...


Only if the environment and the variables are the same (or at least still similiar).....but they aren't! The hot spots have moved away....new global player have come up....

Putin knows that Russia without Ukraine won't be a real power. He wants Ukraine and if cannot get it, he want a large part of it territory.


America has been doing very well with their imperialism. If you think you can just roll up in Europe and be very well . You don't know what you are talking about.

How will it help his power invading and ruling over an hostile country? Longterm that always ever meant loss....an unending strain on the resources and tanking of the international standing....I'm not even mentioning the economical price to pay.....the EU might have no army but an economically totally sanctioned Russia will be a poor Russia very soon. And the moment his disgruntled while suffering followers start to doubt the intelligence of Putin's decisions it's only a matter of time till he's gone....

It is already to an extent; the sanctions imposed after the novichok poisoning have not deterred him.


They never have been. We now have different yet equally dangerous variables and an unstable environment. And like last time, no shortage of weak potential appeasers. The only real difference is NATO, an alliance not without its vulnerabilities.

Because Putin has still to many friends and supporters also in Brussels....politicians who still prefer "talks and trade" with Russia (Nordstream 2 anybody?) But that would all end after a real invasion of a peaceful foreign country!

(And this time it would be a real invasion....no framed "liberation" of homies)

I said if he can't take Ukraine with the consent of the large part of the population of Ukraine. The qestion is can he take the whole country by force. I think not.

He can however take a part of the Ukrainian territory.


Germany won't be doing sanctions for long, they will make a deal with Russia sooner or later. Aslo Russia can sell gas to China.

Merkel will be gone soon....the cards will be newly shuffled in Berlin!

That's true, however when push comes to shove, Western Europe only has two major military powers, one strongly aligned with the US and not in the EU at all now, the other with an uneasy relationship with NATO and hobbled by vetoes should there be a need for further sanctions.,.


A capital that is increasingly less important and with a new minister of defence that is far from resolute.

We don't know yet who will become Minister of defence...only that he/she will most likely placed by the SPD...

Indeed. I was thinking of Foreign Minister Baerbock. A new Bismarck she is not.

I don't see them stay for long if they will not provide gas for the counrty. Atomic power plants are out, coal is out, green lobby is not that strong to keep going if energy costs will go up and up and up..

A cheap Russian gas is pivotal for that green German plan to work.


What do you mean? Berlin is a capital of the EU.

That is clear.....but everything else is possible....for the good and the bad!


That was clear as day for power-pragmatist Merkel....but that would make our idealists in the new government look real bad....they will likely prefer to end that dependence!

Let's hope it's for the good. I am, however, far from optimistic.

An interesting analysis here from yesterday's newspaper:
telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/28/appeasing-putin-wont-work-germany-needs-strong-western-alliances/

A total dependecy on Russia as a main energy source is not very pragmatic.

*nods*

That leads me back to my post from a few days back after the german election....Putin had quite a good and comfy running with 16 years of Merkel....but if Baerbock only keeps half of her political statements concerning Russia and China true we are in for a big change...but that was the opposition speaking, now she is part of the gov....we have to wait and see!

(One must'n also forget that the new Chancellor will be SPD Scholz...not Baerbock)


Na ja....from a german viewpoint....the russian gas had been always trustworthy....even during the high times of the Cold War the Russians always delivered! So, in many ways keeping that gas vault open was a sure, safe, pragmatic thing to do!

I know very well what I am talking about. I am talking about that the US tied in Korea, lost in Vietnam, got nothing in Iraq - twice, lost in Afghanistan, and like hell the Americans will spill blood and money because Putin wants what was his some thirty years ago back. You, Poles, want to fight Russia? Go for it and don't drag us into your Euro-sh*it. Again. And again...

The difference between all of you playing generals and me is that I see only a widow receiving a neatly folded American flag. Next to her are her kids that lost their father. Her veil covers her tears - if she still has any left to shed.

That's the sad half. The angry half has a number of how many Euros are worth one dead American soldier. As of this moment, I am somewhere between 10,000 and 100,000. If you feel I am off, please tell me yours.

Thing is it's a voluntary army.....nobody was gang pressed into it as it was during Vietnam....alot of them are immigrants, alot of them poor boys grabbing the chance of a regular income, a good education, good medical services and a future generally they would otherwise never have with both hands.

It's a deal....hopefully done with both eyes wide open and a clear mind!

It doesn't mean sh*it to that widow and her kids. And me...
The implied contract was that their lives would be placed at the risk of dying for a good cause.
Defending idiots in Europe - again - is not a good cause.

It will....especially if it's poor families....they will still be alot better off than many others who lost the father and the husband and the sole breadwinner!

military.com/benefits/survivor-benefits/surviving-family-benefits.html


No Euro decides if and when it's time for the soldier to uphold his part of the deal....if that consoles you!


PS: I'm a German, that argument doesn't wash with me....just imagine the US would had Europe left alone already in WWI.....there is an argument to be made that there wouldn't be a Hitler....and no WWII.....but that would be off topic!

That is why I hate the voluntary army. If the cause is just, we should draft the sons of the politicians and the rich first. Then you would be amazed how quickly we would hear, well...maybe we should reconsider the idea of defending the a-holes in Europe...What to do you think, guys?

In the end that would mean the US would have no army anymore....I guess in consequence the US would be to busy somehow defending itself, without an army, than thinking about defending peoples from another continent.

Maybe then the Euros would need to come over to help? ;)

But the idea is nice...

No you don't. A war is an extention of the diplomacy. Position of the USA, wealth, and the future is on stake. Your view is very narrow minded. You can't eat a cake and have it.

You say something that Putin would like to pay for.

BTW, I would like to see you walking up to that sobbing widow to tell her about the contract her husband had signed before his fellow soldiers had to collect his body parts.

Yeah....well....maybe not the best time....