Oh my, what a rollercoaster this Finland/Sweden thing is! Do you think Finland and Sweden will put all their exalted values up their ass, and extradite those 73 Kurds to serve time in Turkey? If the stakes are - protecting your own skin, I suppose they might. Europeans, after all, are always "flexible".
Finland already kicked Russia's arse in living memory!
Mhmm, kicked our ass so hard they gave away their economic heartland.
From the Wiki article for the Moscow Peace Treaty:
"Finland ceded approximately half of Finnish Karelia, exceeding the amount of territory demanded by the Soviets before the war. The ceded area included Finland's industrial centre, the cities of Viipuri (Finland's second-largest city), Käkisalmi, Sortavala, Suojärvi, and the whole of Viipuri Bay (with its islands).
Finland also had to cede a part of the Salla area, the Finnish part of the Kalastajansaarento (Rybachi) Peninsula in the Barents Sea, and in the Gulf of Finland the islands of Suursaari, Tytärsaari, Lavansaari (now Moshchny Island о. Мощный), Peninsaari (now Maly Island, о. Малый) and Seiskari. Finally, the Hanko Peninsula was leased to the Soviet Union as a naval base for 30 years at an annual rent of 8 million marks. The total area ceded by Finland amounted to approximately 9% of its territory.
The harsh terms imposed on the Finns led them to seek support from Nazi Germany."
Of course, it worked wonderfully when the Finns went in for round 2, with the assistance of their new Nazi friends. The result was the Finno-Soviet Treaty of 1948, where Finland agreed to (in addition to all its earlier concessions): "[...] to resist armed attacks by "Germany or its allies" (in reality interpreted as the United States and allies) against Finland, or against the Soviet Union through Finland. If necessary, Finland was to ask for Soviet military aid to do so."
@Bobko, the Finns most definitely whooped the Soviet Army's asses. All you need to do is to look at the numbers - they don't lie.
According to the English version of Wikipedia the Finnish had 32 tanks, while the Soviets had 2,514-6,541 tanks. Finland had 114 aircraft and the Soviet Union had 3,880 aircraft. That's an absolutely crazy advantage in military strength!
The Winter War of 1939 ended with:
Finland - 25,904 dead soldiers The Soviet Union - 126,875-167,976 dead soldiers
Finland - 43,557 wounded The Soviet Union - 188,671-207,538 wounded or sick (including at least 61,506 sick or frostbitten).
Finland lost 20-30 tanks The Soviet Union lost 1,200-3,543 tanks
Finland lost 62 aircraft The Soviet Union lost 261-515 aircraft
Mind-blowing. That's some crazy sh1t figures!
Great success!
Of course it was! For a nation of 3.5 million to defend itself against the Soviet Union which in 1939 had a population of 170 million and an overwhelming military advantage is verging on a freaking miracle! A real battle between David and Goliath!
The Finns lost however almost all of their tanks and a great part of their aircraft and with no outside help they had no other choice but to cede territory. They prevented however the Soviet Union from taking over their whole country. They managed to defend Finland's independence.
they gave away their economic heartland.
You are truly the hyena of Europe.
Now Finns can tell themselves they are heroes
Of course they can. Their defense was truly heroic. I'm in absolute awe of them (and so was the world at that time, from what I've read). I don't know what kind of little, petty man you'd have to be to deny the Finnish soldiers the right to be called heroes after they managed to defend their homeland against such military power.
Violent theft is so normalized to the Russian mind they don't even think to hide it.... it's like the thieves in the US who would put their hauls on facebook (and be surprised when the police came).
@mafketis I do remember from Pan Tadeusz a Russian proverb: "God gave you hands to take"
By the same logic, also to release.
It seems the release part is widely unpopular in Russia nowadays.
There is a difference between taking-stealing-borrowing-grabbing-robbing-appropriating-taxing-contributions-insurance
To the low functioning mind, it's an easy process to make it all connected to one word (theft). Yet there are differences in volume, situation and differences in culture/politics
What set of values allows you to support invading Ukraine and not the Baltics and/or Poland?
say, imagine region historically polish. lets say masovia, got into hands of other country by chance ,and that country slaughtered 14k polish people there . cus they rebelled after polish language was banned there.
would you support polands military interference in there?
From the text of the Nystad Peace Treaty (cleaned up machine translation)...
4. His Royal Majesty of Sweden hereby cedes for himself and his posterity and the heirs of the Throne of Sweden and the Kingdom of Sweden to his royal Majesty and his posterity and the heirs of the Russian State in perfect perpetual possession and ownership in this war, by way of his The following provinces are conquered from the crown of Sweden: Livonia, Estland, Ingermanland and part of Karelia, with the district of the Vyborg county, which is marked and described below in the article of delimitation, with cities and fortresses: Riga, Dunamind, Pernava, Revel, Dorpt, Narva, Vyborg, Kexholm and all the other towns, fortresses, havens, places, districts and coasts which belong to the said provinces, with the islands of Ösel, Dago and Men and all others from the Kurland border along the Livonian, Estonian and Ingrian shores and on the Ost side from Revel in the fairway to Viborg on the Zuid and Ost side lying islands, With all the inhabitants and settlements in all these islands, as in the said provinces, cities and places, and in general with all their appurtenances, and what to these depend by their highnesses, rights and profits in all things without excluding anything thereof, and as the Swedish crown has possessed, used and utilized them. And His Royal Majesty hereby renounces and repudiates in the most binding manner, as it may appear, for himself, his heirs and descendants and the whole Swedish kingdom from all rights, claims and demands which His Royal Majesty and the State of Sweden have hitherto had and could have upon all the aforesaid provinces, islands, lands and places, As all the inhabitants of these provinces and islands and places which they owed to the Swedish State are hereby very much relieved and permitted to have; and also in the same manner that, from this day forward, His Majesty and the Swedish State may not, under any pretext whatsoever, enter into any such claim and may not demand the same from them; but that they may be and remain forever annexed to the Russian State. His royal majesty and the state of Sweden hereby undertake and promise his royal majesty and his heirs of the Russian state to maintain at all times all these areas in undisturbed enjoyment and to retain them; and also, all archives and documents and letters of any kind which particularly concern these lands and from which during this war were removed to Sweden have been found and presented to his royal majesty in good faith.
5. His Royal Highness in four weeks from the date of the exchange of the treaty of peace, or sooner if possible, pledges to restore His Royal Highness and the Swedish Crown and to make the Grand Duchy of Finland again, except in that part of it which is situated below In addition to the aforesaid part which is demarcated and belongs to his Royal Majesty below, his royal Majesty, his heirs and successors shall have no further right or demand of this presently restored Grand Duchy, under whatever guise or name, for ever and for ever. Furthermore, His Royal Highness wishes to be bound by and promises His Royal Highness the sum of two million thalers without deduction and, of course, that His Royal Highness, with the appropriate authorized persons and receipts, will pay and give instructions on such terms and in such coin as is set forth in the separate article, which has the same force and effect as if it had been entered here from word to word, and is so decreed and agreed.
So, at least current Estonia and majority of Latvia was in fact BOUGHT from Sweden by Russia after Northern War. And paid in full (2 millions of thalers is definitely NOT a pocket change in that time).
Well if we are going back. Your Putin should simply addmit that Russia belongs to Poland. After all - "A year later, on October 29, 1611, Hetman Żółkiewski, in a solemn procession, marched his army into Warsaw bringing Vasily Shuysky and his brothers Dmitry and Ivan with him. In the presence of the nobility and the Senate they gave the oath of allegiance to King Sigismund III Vasa."
Your Putin should simply addmit that Russia belongs to Poland.
Exactly!!! Poland takes over Russia and its nukes. Names them the Ashes of Moscow and drops on Russian territory which will be easy coz it will be controlled by Poland already. Iron, you were a genius a few years ago!! Why did you give up that Cojest mask??? I adopt a lot of masks in the forum to make it a funnier place.
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