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SOME OBSERVATIONS ABOUT POLAND AND POLISH SOCIETY


Torq 32 | 2,999
3 Jul 2010 #181
blah blah blah yada yada yada

Very well, I'm going to take Matowy's advice on dealing with trolls and I shall ignore you from now on.
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Jul 2010 #182
good man. I vow to point out your bigotry whenever I see it. In defence of Poland.

Defending Poland, f stop? How?

I work with two indian Phds, smartest, well travelled, most helpfull and selfless people I know, and I re-read this thread, imagining one of them was reading it, and I physically cringed.

I also have noticed that whenever the brain-numbing foreigner bashin' thread gets really going here, it usually takes one person to point out the insanity of judging people by color of their skin, or by sheer chance of where were they born, only then other voices, way more eloquent than mine, come out.

Oh, please. I'm really sick and tired of this. I have friends all over Europe (REAL ones,
not some internet entities) and we get on perfectly well. So, I guess there is something
likeable about this "most shameful aspect" which allows me to make friends abroad easily.

Yes, there are people like you all over the world.

Perhaps it's the fact that I respect my country and culture and I'm not ashamed of my
nationality and native language. Perhaps it's beacause I'm not like some other Poles, whose
attempts to make foreigners to like them, at all cost, are truly vomit-inducing. Perhaps...

I'm very proud of my country, but some of my friends wanted to know what is this polish forum I've been talking about, and I would be trully ashamed to point them here, mostly because of the stance you represent.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #183
Well, you have a point! Many Poles (and not only Poles) don't seem to see that their conditions are hardly conducive towards maximising their learning opportunities given their lack of money (Indians, I mean). Ok, chess isn't a benchmark but I've played many Indians online and they make for a formidable match! Some smart cookies!

I know ITAKA organise tours to India and I hope more Poles can go and see for themselves how life is there. I also know that a certain Pole was nervous about her Indian boyfriend coming here. She felt that he would be on the receiving end of racist remarks.

I know Indians through living alongside some for 23 years in Scotland. Also, one of my best friends at secondary school was Indian and I met quite a few Indians through him. They are really nice people and generous too (many free meals) :) :)

I think some Poles would benefit from the same experiences as I.
nott 3 | 594
3 Jul 2010 #184
I use the Bible to prove my point so what's wrong with that? Have you no respect for Scripture?

Well... I do! :) Only Catholicism is not based on the Bible solely, but on the thoughts of Fathers of Church. They somehow knew that the Book is only an eclectic, huge hint at the Truth of Faith, and tried to suck the essence out of it.

And, between us, it all boils down to that when you stand before the Judge, then you are solely responsible for your deeds and negligence. So it's Church and priest for the simpler folk, but if you are capable of independent thought, then the personal responsibility grows accordingly. Thus as a good Catholic you complain stubbornly about a greedy priest to his bishop, but you do not make a tabloid news out of it. And such. Catholicism is not so simplistic, as it appears to outsiders.

It is not off-topic, no,

How come? it's just an exchange of private opinions of two particular people, on a particular topic. No society involved, actually, and Poland only loosely related.

I stress the danger of affixing a sticker. I can see some merits in Catholicism (good deeds, for example). However, I just believe that they are artificial constructs and I could also quote many provisions relating to God's Grace which prove that.

You always end up with an artificial product, God's wisdom is not available to you.

You want to see an eminent Catholic get defeated in argumentation time after time? Watch this It's one of many topics that they discuss. Dr Walter Martin, helped by Ankerberg admittedly, defeats Rev Mitchell Pacwa. It's really detailed stuff which explores imputation Vs infusion. Deep but they keep it accessible and watchable :)

Deep? this is some talmudic hocus-pocus, Seanus, who cares about it? :) Do they really want to find the answer to Faith, Life, and Everything? Through logical argumentation on TV? It's a show, PR, propaganda.
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Jul 2010 #185
I don't know what happened in Norway, or Sweden, or wherever that is where indian immigrants supposedly don't even try to integrate (the way it was described they take advantage of social services was especailly concerning), but here, they are most educated, law obiding, non-obtrusive neighbours hell bent on fitting in. Sometimes it is even painfull to watch. They even want to party with us, always bringing gifts. ;)

But I don't know - why the difference? Maybe it is easier to integrate here, so they don't need the support of their group as much (financial or otherwise)?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #186
Religion is a huge part of life here, fact! What I take issue with is that many Poles cannot understand the core issue to which those 2 gentleman are referring. They provide the key to unlocking that which many don't seem to follow. This doesn't only go for Poles but for people generally.

Exactly! One cannot presuppose the wisdom of God. They can only be absolved by his Grace through imputed righteousness.

Talmudic hocus-pocus? This is exactly my point. They are discussing the core essence of theology and also of Scripture and you can't see it. Ankerberg introduces the Protestant propaganda a little but he also immerses himself in the arguments and tries to make sense of it all. Hardly classic PR here! To call yourself sth is to strongly imply that you understand what that thing is. My point is that many don't. It's just conditioning-based nonsense. How can 95% of people miraculously come to the same conclusion based on a wide mass of evidence being available? Probability would show otherwise! It's just a part of the broader sticker culture which religion hasn't escaped :( :(
Torq 32 | 2,999
3 Jul 2010 #187
hocus-pocus

The expression "hocus-pocus" is a parody of Catholic "Hoc est Corpus", made up to ridicule
the Catholic belief in transubstantiation. I avoid using it for that reason, even though not
many people know about its origins.

Talmudic

I also remember listening to a lecture by rabbi Sasha Pecaric, in which he explained that
"Abracadabra" is derived from Hebrew "abera kedaber" (I create as I speak), but I would
have to ask Yehudi to confirm this, as he's the expert on Hebrew here.

They appear to be innocent, children "magic" words, but they can have ominous connotations.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #188
It's generally used to mean gobbledeegook or sth not to be taken seriously. If you have a 95% belief level, even though we all know only between 60-65% practise, then such things matter.

Catholics rely heavily on certain parts of the Old Testament and, in this way, are closer to Talmudic beliefs.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
3 Jul 2010 #189
Cullen Skink is rarely heard of outside of Scotland. It is very tasty!

Exactly..Most foreigners dont bother to try new stuff, Ive nearly perfected it..Its heaven in a bowl!

As for the soups...My barley broth and chicken soup and pea soup and beef broth and I could go for ever but I wont are all delicious....You cant get these in super markets and most Poles dont have an English or Scotish friend so they're never going to get a decent British meal while they're living in the UK, unless they know someone British who can tell them where the hidden gems are...

For anyone in Manchester I can recommend:

Sams Chop House
Thomas's Chop House

Neither are cheap, but you get what you pay for!

It's what we say in the UK. That porridge makes a man of you. Women just have to worry that it'll put hairs on their chest ;0 :)

Lol :D
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #190
Very true, Amathyst. Spread the word! The Poles have some top soups but, rather than see them as just different from British ones, most instantly say they are better. Britain has some really hearty soups, full of taste and goodness. I prefer to compliment both and not enter this pointless 'we have the best' nonsense. People make things to be enjoyed by others and not to tittle-tattle with elitist ramblings.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
3 Jul 2010 #191
People make things to be enjoyed by others and not to tittle-tattle with elitist ramblings.

Very true...My ex is Hungarian and couldnt believe the food that English people actually eat at home, they buy these cheap (value range) cottage pies in the supermarket and think thats what they actualy taste like... :( It breaks my heart :(

I will say I found the food in Wraclaw must better than Krakow and did actually have a couple of very nice meals in Polish restaurants..(the Italian was in Krakow :D ) That chain called Sphinx is awful, even worse than any chain in the UK..processed shyte that I actually left after one mouthfull..
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #192
I think a lot of the best things in Poland and Polish society are góral/highlander in nature. Places? Zakopane and Żywiec, for example. They ooze character and have outstanding natural beauty. Food? Gazdówka, a restaurant here, has amazingly good regional food and also does Polish national cuisine. Character? These people have passion and can bring an event to life. Culture? Full of festivals and punch. Diversity? I love their dialect. They even have the menu translated from highlander language to Polish just in case any Warsaw or Kraków snobs don't get it. I could go on and on but my point is clear. I'm a fan of highlanders, whether they be Scottish or Polish.
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Jul 2010 #193
to me the best things is Poland were the two extremes: summers and holidays in the little village w Świętokrzyskim, and rest of the year in Warsaw.

In Warsaw I liked the "inteligencja" (for the lack of a better word), in vibrant quest for more, more: books, music, art, fashion, always expanding for new ideas. Solving the world problems and criticising trends during endless hours in cafes and pubs. Going to people's homes and hearing the sweetest music, or someone's poetry that makes the hair on my arms stand up.

Villages hold a special place for me as well, bucolic images so perfect that I almost doubt they are my true memories. But they are. Rides on horse driven wagons.. Villagers tsk-tsking when I show up as a stylish waif that I spend too much on clothes and must not have enough left for food, or happily pinching my fat cheeks when I show up looking like a wreck. And village weddings!

Then, there is camping out at the foot of old ruins or living out of a canoe na Mazurach..
Piorun - | 658
3 Jul 2010 #194
unless they know someone British who can tell them where the hidden gems are...

Why keep it a secret then? Post the damn recipe and I’ll cook it myself if I have to, I’m game perhaps even in need of trying something new, I’ll even post a review.

Edit: not a big fan of pea soup but everything else I’m willing to try as long it’s authentic Scottish cuisine. I hope you keep it in mind that it’s not a competition, seriously my taste buds are looking forward to try something new.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
4 Jul 2010 #195
Constant defensiveness, talking over others and electing a boring mug are the latest observations. Almost all Poles I've talked to talk about the lesser of two evils. How reassuring!

Oh, and people standing too close. My wife almost blew up in the shop at a service guy who stood right behind her and then couldn't advise her worth a damn regarding what she wanted. She constantly rips into people here yet maintains her patriotism. This is quite typical of Poles. They will castigate their country yet remain patriotic. Interesting!
Ironside 49 | 10,174
4 Jul 2010 #196
Almost all Poles I've talked to talk about the lesser of two evils. How reassuring!

most people are morons, democracy phew!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
4 Jul 2010 #197
That's true, Ironside.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
4 Jul 2010 #198
Edit: not a big fan of pea soup but everything else I’m willing to try as long it’s authentic Scottish cuisine.

Im English! Have you tried home made pea and ham soup? Soup made with the stock off a smoked ham?

I'll PM you some taste bud delights..
ewlunia - | 10
4 Jul 2010 #199
I am polish but I can tell u that what makes me mad in Poland is intolerance !!! People should be more open to the world!!! Oh and I don't like eldery people here they think that they deserve for everything!!!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
4 Jul 2010 #200
Intolerance? The Poles are the most tolerant people in the world ;) ;) What intolerance?

Don't they deserve everything? ;) Haven't they lived virtuous and noble lives without sniping and bickering? Aren't they the elite people?

Ewlunia, huh? ;) ;)
ewlunia - | 10
4 Jul 2010 #201
First of all u have to forgive me my english i am still learning:-) As i sais for my they r intolerance try to ask polish boy about homosexual marriage :-) i am talkin about eldery people because i meet them everyday ( i am working in hospital) if they have to wait more than one hour for a doctor they start to argue that it's not fair they are paying tax ectera i have lived in uk for 5 years and i was doing a homecare and never ever heard a word of complain from brits about anything:-)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
4 Jul 2010 #202
Are you sure they aren't just enquiring about the service? It took America a long time to recognise gay marriage and that was in a liberal state (California). Why should Poland be any faster considering its Catholic tradition?

Don't you know that those old people have busy lives and agendas to fulfil?
Ironside 49 | 10,174
4 Jul 2010 #203
word of complain from brits about anything:-)

they don't complain in front of the strangers and foreigners in this compartment Poles are more open:)
ewlunia - | 10
4 Jul 2010 #204
:-) I am polish as i said and for me polish people are sometimes two faces i don't wanna generalise but they can tell u that they r open and they don't bother about for example this gay marriage but when u walked away they will start laughing and talked bad thins about u
Ironside 49 | 10,174
4 Jul 2010 #205
people are sometimes two faces

well...the eternal truth, people are people

for me polish people

that nice that you do not have that bad trait ....
Seanus 15 | 19,706
4 Jul 2010 #206
Well, thanks for keeping the thread on topic, ewlunia. I could mention that the two faces of Asians are MUCH worse but this is about Poles.

When you walk away, how can you hear them? ;) ;)
ewlunia - | 10
4 Jul 2010 #207
:)
I said i don't wanna generalise :-) I just don't like polish way of thinking we are scare of everything what is new for us People should be more open enthusiastic stop complaing and start smiling! we should open our eyes and see how beautiful is the world!!!Life is to short for sadness!!!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
5 Jul 2010 #208
Many Poles are scared of a lot of things, that's true. Still, many have moved abroad into environments where they aren't using their native language and that takes some doing in places that don't always accept you.

I've said it to Poles before and they agree with me. They have a lot of good things around them here in Poland yet they choose to focus on the negative aspects. They have been criticized for being money-hungry vultures in the UK. Although Brits don't seem to be aware of certain realities here in Poland, there is some truth in that. Poles just need to play to their strengths and develop what they can and not dream about what they can't. Germany will always be ahead in most areas but Poland has real potential in many areas and Poles just need to see it.
OP Sun and Moon 2 | 28
5 Jul 2010 #209
I said i don't wanna generalise :-) I just don't like polish way of thinking we are scare of everything what is new for us People should be more open enthusiastic stop complaing and start smiling! we should open our eyes and see how beautiful is the world!!!Life is to short for sadness!!!

How true your observation is. One has to see the psyche behind this whole attitude. There is some thing wrong with Polsih Nation. Their reputation is much damaged that no one knows when it will get repaired. The other day I was attending an international function in Germany. Guests came from all over the world. Few Poles were also there. Function was sensitive as such all were required to go through body search. There came few Poles. I could hear the security people whispering in German Language, do not search these Poles in entering the building rather search them when they are leaving the building." Now in this situaiton do you suggest any concrete measure which this nation can adopt for improving their image internationally.
Miguel Colombia - | 351
5 Jul 2010 #210
German Language, do not search these Poles in entering the building rather search them when they are leaving the building."

That is sad.

Some low lives ruin the reputation of a whole nation.


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