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SOME OBSERVATIONS ABOUT POLAND AND POLISH SOCIETY


nott 3 | 594
3 Jul 2010 #151
Stop looking at those citation needed parts ;)

Who you taking me for? There was a proper table, rows and columns, all black on white. Legit, like.

Voices? From where?

Good boy. I said, there's hope still :)

Hope is always with me :)

Well done!

Now close the Book... and call that priest.
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Jul 2010 #152
this whole thread is trully embarrasing. Really, no foreigners are allowed to point out any areas for improvements after visiting Poland? And your valiant defence consists of, not intelligent contra-arguments, but that it's worse where you came from, and, if you don't like it, get out? How insecure can we be?

And while you think you are defending Poland, there is not much anyone can say that will damage its reputation as much as statements like this, and I quote:

"You see, we - white people, are generous and we reach out our hands and pull you
out of sh*it (literally). Where's your gratitude, puny third-worlder?"
plk123 8 | 4,150
3 Jul 2010 #153
no foreigners are allowed to point out any areas for improvements after visiting Poland?

that's pretty clear from the "polish mod" thread too, no?
alexw68
3 Jul 2010 #154
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" (Samuel Johnson, 1775).
Torq 32 | 2,999
3 Jul 2010 #155
no foreigners are allowed to point out any areas for improvements after visiting Poland

Yeah, right - like when they say that all Polish girls are sluts (thus, pointing the area for
improvement - our girls, right?) Or when they say that Poles are anti-semite, Jew-murdering
monsters, showing us that we should improve and abandon our anti-semite ways, right?
Or when they ask a question like "Do all Polish people steal?" (indirectly asking us to
improve ourselves and stop stealing) etc. etc.

Sorry, but such "pointing out of areas for improvement" will always be met with full,
most painful and ruthless retaliation. Sometimes a man has to do what a man has to
do. It is not pleasant for me, but it is my duty as a Pole.

"You see, we - white people, are generous and we reach out our hands and
pull you out of sh*it (literally). Where's your gratitude, puny third-worlder?"

Hey - you took this sentence out of the entire troll-bashing context, but yes - when an
Indian troll comes here and starts lecturing me on civilization and claiming that Poland has
nothing in common with Western Europe and Latin civilization roots, then he will always
get what you quoted (and more).

any areas for improvements after visiting Poland?

that's pretty clear from the "polish mod" thread too, no?


Well, you did improve Poland significantly by emmigrating to the USA - I'll give you that, plk.
I said it before, but I will say it again - THANK YOU AMERICA!

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" (Samuel Johnson, 1775).

Actually, you can find a quote or a "counter-quote" to prove pretty much anything you
want. No offence, but quote juggling is the idiot's way of conducting an argument.
Matowy - | 295
3 Jul 2010 #156
Hey - you took this sentence out of the entire troll-bashing context, but yes - when an
Indian troll comes here and starts lecturing me on civilization and claiming that Poland has
nothing in common with Western Europe and Latin civilization roots, then he will always
get what you quoted (and more).

That's truly a brilliant stance to take. If someone says something you don't like, then take whatever information is available to you about them and say as many offensive things as you can using that little piece of information. Instead of, in this case, proving the "troll" wrong by stating facts, or even IGNORING the obvious troll, the best thing to do is get emotionally hurt and invested in the troll and be as rude as possible with the least productive comments possible. Hah, the troll surely never saw that coming, you totally surprised him!

In case you didn't notice, I'm being sarcastic. I shouldn't have to tell you this, but apparently we have 8 pages of people making fools of themselves and giving the troll exactly what he wants, so forgive me for concluding that you're alll just too ******* dumb to recognise subtlety, or exercise it for that matter.

And here's some more subtlety for the astounding dumbfucks that fell for this: This poster clearly isn't Indian. Being a troll, he knows that this forum has a comedically disproportionately random hatred for Indians in particular, which is why he chose to call himself Indian.
Torq 32 | 2,999
3 Jul 2010 #157
If someone says something you don't like

If someone insults me (or my country), I will insult him (or his country) back - simple as
that. Why shouldn't I? It's fun and entertaining for everyone (including the audience who
reads it, and if someone doesn't enjoy the troll-bashing, well - nobody is forcing him/her
to read it.)

Instead of, in this case, proving the "troll" wrong by stating facts

600 million Indians (that's the population of Poland multiplied by 15) DO have to defecate
outside, because they don't have toilets. It IS a fact (you can follow the link that I posted
to learn more about it, if you're interested.)

or even IGNORING the obvious troll

Ignoring? Where's the fun in that?

This poster clearly isn't Indian.

I wouldn't be so sure.

this forum has a comedically disproportionately random hatred for Indians
in particular

Really? It's not Jews anymore - it's Indians now? Interesting.

EDIT:

Of course, in a perfect world, all threads that are insultive towards Poland and Poles
or those which are posted by obvious trolls, would simply be deleted by the moderating
team. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen on this forum, thus the necessity of occasional
troll-bashing feast.
king polkakamon - | 544
3 Jul 2010 #158
Poland does not need any improvement.It is a perfect place.(they should just make goulash better,damn why can't they just copy the Czechs?)
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
3 Jul 2010 #159
why can't they just copy the Czechs?)

I see you know what you're talking about... ;-)
king polkakamon - | 544
3 Jul 2010 #160
Yes,this polish goulash is a disgrace.While you have this marvel produced in Bohemia Moravia and all the splendid czech land paralleled only to hungarian variation,you get this spineless sweet flavouring totally destructed goulash in Poland,a real decadence.It makes you want to cross the border again and rely in the warm lap of czech goulash again.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #161
Nott, the only time I'd call a priest is for an interview. I could quote you many Biblical passages but 1 Timothy 2.5 is the best, 'For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.'

John 20.23 is also relevant. Somehow, the Apostles were to pass down their power to priests but, rather ironically, the passage doesn't even mention sin, even tacitly.

1 John 1:19 says we are to confess directly to God. Isn't that enough evidence for you? This is where Catholicism is closer to the Jewish faith (the Torah). You rely more on the Old Testament where things are implied at best. The New Testament, on the other hand, teaches that all believers themselves are priests. Somewhere in Peter and Revelations, I think, but I can't remember the numbers. I remember sth about 'holy priesthood' being mentioned.

Catholicism sees things in the Bible that aren't there and that's my beef with it. Sola Scriptura, as interpreted by most Protestants, seems to be closer to the mark.
Matowy - | 295
3 Jul 2010 #162
If someone insults me (or my country), I will insult him (or his country) back - simple as that.

You're right, it is simple. In it's immaturity it can't possibly be more simplistic. You sound like some American.

600 million Indians

Stop. Relevance of that? Absolutely none.

Ignoring? Where's the fun in that?

I am not interested in your superifical and unconvincing attempts to make it look as if you're being laid-back. Your actions say otherwise.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Then you've been successfully trolled 100%. Congratulations, you're gullible and easily manipulated. That explains the Catholic thing about you.

Really? It's not Jews anymore - it's Indians now? Interesting.

No, you're still crap at subtlety. Don't try it any further, I grow bored with it easily.

Of course, in a perfect world, all threads that are insultive towards Poland and Poles
or those which are posted by obvious trolls, would simply be deleted by the moderating
team. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen on this forum

If that were to happen then every other thread or post being insulting towards a group would have to be removed as well. Granted it is a Polish forum, but the member base would disappear quickly if moderation became biased and censor-happy.

thus the necessity of occasional troll-bashing feast.

Look up the word "necessity". Then look up the term "trolling". Long story short, no it isn't a necessity, it just degrades everyone involved, including you. And like I've already pointed out, by "bashing" the obvious troll, you make their mission successful, and in the process manage to prove yourself no better than they are.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #163
Torq, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Didn't the Bible teach you that? ;) ;) If sb insults Scotland, so be it. They are mainly going on stereotypes and some nonsense they have picked up anyway.

Catholics do appear to be led by the priest, an artificial construct not specifically provided for in Scripture.

Torq has a point, Matowy. The Mods let a few things slide but with good reason. They are not always here and have lives of their own. Also, a bit of spice is needed as Poles tend to take the bait. Trust me, I've sat in classes where I've had to delicately spark it as, otherwise, they would sit in their boring little worlds and not generate any enthusiasm for anything. Torq, to his credit, comes alive and defends things that matter to him.
Miguel Colombia - | 351
3 Jul 2010 #164
If sb insults Scotland, so be it. They are mainly going on stereotypes and some nonsense they have picked up anyway.

THat's very cynical coming from you, Mr.Scrable.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #165
I was cynical when I was younger too so I'm consistent :)

Anyway, I hope Polish society moves forward with more apprenticeships and internships. I met a student that I had taught for some time and he managed to pick up an apprenticeship somewhere. An internship is more geared towards functional areas like actuarial work, book-keeping and the like whereas an apprenticeship is more for trades like welding, joinery and plumbing. Tusk needs to extend this as much as possible.
Matowy - | 295
3 Jul 2010 #166
Torq has a point, Matowy. The Mods let a few things slide but with good reason.

And I believe it's for the reason I stated, because censoring things about only one specific topic is unethical, and they seem to realise that.

Trust me, I've sat in classes where I've had to delicately spark it as, otherwise, they would sit in their boring little worlds and not generate any enthusiasm for anything. Torq, to his credit, comes alive and defends things that matter to him.

Eh, I have a pretty negative view on being passionate, precisely for this reason. Passion is always viewed as a good quality to have, but based on people who convey passion about their chosen subject, people can become passionate about the wrong things. Passion about religion, nationality, ideology, all of that stuff, it practically forces inobjectivity and knee-jerk reactions such as this. Enthusiasm about something is fine, but to the point where it compromises rational thinking it just becomes dangerous.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #167
These are just views, after all. Poland gives its journalists a wide ambit in which to operate so such leeway should be granted on a forum but tempered by the need to realise the difference in knowledge of the country. Wild inaccuracies only serve to rile people and Torq just tries to set the story straight as he sees it. Others here, rather than educate, just get all defensive and surely that can't be the reaction of (for) choice!?

I agree on the second point. I play football with enthusiasm, passionately at times, but always pinch myself that it is just a game.
Torq 32 | 2,999
3 Jul 2010 #168
You sound like some American.

Is that supposed to sound pejorative?

I am not interested in your superifical and unconvincing attempts to make
it look as if you're being laid-back. Your actions say otherwise.

Erm... don't judge other people by your standards. If you're not able to be laid-back
and have fun while bashing some troll online, then it's only your problem, not mine.

You're gullible and easily manipulated. That explains the Catholic
thing about you.

LOL

I just love it when all those pseudo-intellectuals call Catholics "gullible" and "easily
manipulated", thus betraying their own shalowness and primitivism. I don't know you
personally, Matowy, but judging only by your posts, it is evident that, compared to
Catholic philosophers and writers like Jacques Maritain, Gilbert Keith Chesterton
or Karl Adam, for example, you are an intellectual dwarf. Yet - you see it appropriate
to belittle and disparage Catholics. It is so typical and I've seen it so many times on
various internet fora, that it's only mildly amusing to me now :)

No, you're still crap at subtlety. Don't try it any further, I grow bored
with it easily.

What I grow bored with are your pathetic attempts at patronizing me. *Yaaaaawn...*

Look up the word "necessity". Then look up the term "trolling". Long story short, no it isn't a necessity, it just degrades everyone involved, including you. And like I've already pointed out, by "bashing" the obvious troll, you make their mission successful, and in the process manage to prove yourself no better than they are.

OK, very well - let's try that "ignore" option that you are advertising for so much.
Let's see if the number of trolls decreases (somehow, I doubt it.)
Matowy - | 295
3 Jul 2010 #169
Is that supposed to sound pejorative?

No, I'm comparing your attitudes towards being "nationally insulted" to the attitudes of Americans about this topic.

Erm... don't judge other people by your standards. If you're not able to be laid-back
and have fun while bashing some troll online, then it's only your problem, not mine.

It's pretty obvious you were just offended and wanted to be mean to someone because you felt attacked. You even said so yourself. You can justify it all you want to yourself, just don't try and justify it to me because I am not interested in entertaining lies. The Emperor's New Clothes game isn't that much fun either.

My intention with that Catholic remark was to point out how silly it is refer to something completely irrelevant about a person in an attempt to discredit or counter some ideas of theirs. I'm completely dismayed that instead of pointing out my intentional flaw, you just attempt to escalate it with further ad hominem. Is that all you can do?

It's not about reducing the number of trolls, it's about not reacting to them. You clearly got sucked in by this troll, you made an emotional investment where there was no benefit to doing so. If the troll has altered your feelings in any way, then it has been successful. The person who loses something is the one who reacts.
Torq 32 | 2,999
3 Jul 2010 #170
It's pretty obvious you were just offended and wanted to be mean to someone because you felt attacked.

Yes, I was annoyed at first, which doesn't mean that I didn't have fun retaliating later,
but, anyway - this whole argument is pointless.

My intention with that Catholic remark was to point out how silly it is refer to something
completely irrelevant about a person in an attempt to discredit or counter some ideas of
theirs.

Well, it didn't really sound like that...

you're gullible and easily manipulated. That explains the Catholic thing about you.

...and I've seen the association of words "Catholic", "gullible" and "easily manipulated"
being made too many times on various fora to read it in any other way than literally.

ad hominem

Well, you started...

too ******* dumb

dumbfucks

What I wrote about being an "intellectual dwarf" (compared to great philosophers
and writers, mind you!) was very mild, compared to your insults.
Miguel Colombia - | 351
3 Jul 2010 #171
I was cynical when I was younger too so I'm consistent :)

How old are you now?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #172
I'm 95, why do you ask? Nah, just 32 :)

Anyway, MC, what brings you to this forum? Ever been out to a Polish market? Ever talked face-to-face with a Polish person? Ever been to a traditional Polish event?
nott 3 | 594
3 Jul 2010 #173
Torq has a point, Matowy. The Mods let a few things slide but with good reason. They are not always here and have lives of their own. Also, a bit of spice is needed as Poles tend to take the bait. Trust me, I've sat in classes where I've had to delicately spark it as, otherwise, they would sit in their boring little worlds and not generate any enthusiasm for anything.

It is not recommended, but: :)

Hope you'll read it before I am banished to random.

Passion about religion, nationality, ideology, all of that stuff, it practically forces inobjectivity and knee-jerk reactions such as this. Enthusiasm about something is fine, but to the point where it compromises rational thinking it just becomes dangerous.

Religion, nationality, ideology is irrational per se, it's all about beliefs. People are rarely rational, and we have to live with it. As long as it stays on the verbal level, no actual harm is done, and that's what we get on the Net. The side-effect is, that there is some chance of finding some mutual understanding, as long as we talk.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #174
What is not recommended?
nott 3 | 594
3 Jul 2010 #175
Nott, the only time I'd call a priest is for an interview.

You are the most dangerous kind of free-thinkers. You have read the Bible and you abuse it's contents to prove your point without shame at all. Such are usually well versed, and can quote The Writ from memory, to lead the simple folk astray. One priest told me so. Nuff said, yeah.

1 John 1:19 says we are to confess directly to God. Isn't that enough evidence for you? This is where Catholicism is closer to the Jewish faith (the Torah). You rely more on the Old Testament where things are implied at best. The New Testament, on the other hand, teaches that all believers themselves are priests. Somewhere in Peter and Revelations, I think, but I can't remember the numbers. I remember sth about 'holy priesthood' being mentioned.

Catholicism sees things in the Bible that aren't there and that's my beef with it. Sola Scriptura, as interpreted by most Protestants, seems to be closer to the mark.

Actually, I wouldn't trust the Bible. Christianity is really quite a difficult religion, so to make it accessible to common folk one has to make some concessions, hoping that God will look in your heart and appreciate the intentions, not to mention the result. Protestantism was one of such attempts, and with good reasons, and with results not too bad, but where Catholicism stayed strong it's equally valid now. It doesn't really matter what the Bible literally says. You should learn as much as possible about the God, and Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and with sincerity follow your heart. I'd say devotion, putting aside all the funny connotations, is the only way to God. Just try to do your best, and the Loving Father will appreciate and accept. One of the methods is to go to church every Sunday, and listen to the priests. Blessed be those of small spirit, as their will be the Kingdom of Heaven. Loose translation.

To make it clear, just in case: I am not a Catholic. I'm not sure you would want to know what I am.

Is it off-topic or not?

What is not recommended?

Replies like 'yeah'. I didn't know then, that the post will grow.
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Jul 2010 #176
perfect title for the thread: SOME OBSERVATIONS ABOUT POLAND AND POLISH SOCIETY.
It's not the polish sluts, or theves, or jew-haters, or those who don't know Polish hitory (God forbid!) that will diminish Poles in the eyes of the world.

Torq is representing the most shameful aspect of Poles.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #177
I use the Bible to prove my point so what's wrong with that? Have you no respect for Scripture? I draw significance from things, see the position of others and don't slap on a label or give myself a classification or category. I won't sway from that position.

It is not off-topic, no, but I'm on safe ground here as I don't inflame when it comes to religion. One of the forum rules is that we don't discuss religion so fervently. I respect the religion of others, whatever it may be (provided they extract reasonable elements). I won't go too much into theology so as to split Christianity down the line. I look for commonalities and there are many.

I stress the danger of affixing a sticker. I can see some merits in Catholicism (good deeds, for example). However, I just believe that they are artificial constructs and I could also quote many provisions relating to God's Grace which prove that. You want to see an eminent Catholic get defeated in argumentation time after time? Watch this, ... It's one of many topics that they discuss. Dr Walter Martin, helped by Ankerberg admittedly, defeats Rev Mitchell Pacwa. It's really detailed stuff which explores imputation Vs infusion. Deep but they keep it accessible and watchable :)

They are perhaps the foremost authorities on both sides. There is much substantive overlap but, nonetheless, there are key differences.
Torq 32 | 2,999
3 Jul 2010 #178
Torq

Your constant picking on me, apart from being pathetic and boring, is nothing short of trolling.

What's the story with you stalking me in almost every thread I post in (in this and Polish
section as well)? I don't want to be rude and tell you to f**k off, but I wouldn't mind if
you did.

is representing the most shameful aspect of Poles.

Oh, please. I'm really sick and tired of this. I have friends all over Europe (REAL ones,
not some internet entities) and we get on perfectly well. So, I guess there is something
likeable about this "most shameful aspect" which allows me to make friends abroad easily.

Perhaps it's the fact that I respect my country and culture and I'm not ashamed of my
nationality and native language. Perhaps it's beacause I'm not like some other Poles, whose
attempts to make foreigners to like them, at all cost, are truly vomit-inducing. Perhaps...
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Jul 2010 #179
Torq

Your constant picking on me, apart from being pathetic and boring, is nothing short of trolling.

aww, I'm picking on you... You are the one that thinks all is fair, including all manner of insults and censorship in defence of Poland's good name. I'm defending Poland! I think all your racist comments should be removed!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
3 Jul 2010 #180
Defending Poland, f stop? How?


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