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How are electric cars doing in Poland?


delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
7 Aug 2017  #91
That's an understatement.

I've seen it suggested that this is what will make or break Tesla as a company. They need to be able to massively ramp up production without sacrificing quality, and I'm not convinced they're going to be able to do it. Anyone can create a niche car company, but mass production is a whole different story.
weg04
7 Aug 2017  #92
Typically the hybrid cars or smaller cars like Toyota auris and the skodas fords etc are purchased by middle class people who can't quite afford a car over 40k 50k plus.

BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Jaguar, Lamborghini and Ferrari etc. also have hybrids/electrics. So lets bin your silly theory, eh?
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
8 Aug 2017  #93
They are certainly attracting attention today with their $1.5bn bond issue.

As your name indicates you are a Polish Investor is that correct ?
Are you invested in the stock market ?

and I'm not convinced they're going to be able to do it.

As little as you know about the subject it really does not surprise me.

So lets bin your silly theory, eh?

So your theory is that middle class people can afford Lamborghini's and Ferrari's, eh ?
Peeweeher
8 Aug 2017  #94
So your theory is that middle class people can afford Lamborghini's and Ferrari's, eh ?

The original comment was that hybrids were only bought by middle class people who could only afford to spend up to 50k
polinv
8 Aug 2017  #95
Are you invested in the stock market ?

Not at present, but its more to do with the rate of the gbppln rate (probably another 10-15% downside on this then Id look to switch) and a commitment I have early 2018. Despite the run up, its much inline with the global EM re-rating and fundamentals are strong. So there would be some names I would buy on weakness as well as one or two special situations on a longer term horizon.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,372
10 Aug 2017  #96
@weg04

Doesn't mean polish people are willing to spend money on them. German hybrids are junk. Their diesels and gas are good but for now only the japs and Americans known how to make a decent hybrid. The Germans with the exception of vs/Audi/Porsche corp are just now starting to get out of diesels/gas and more into.hybrid and electric and at least for BMW and Mercedes-Benz its not going to well for now.

People who can afford a 70k 100k car don't care about gas prices. The only reason why they'd but a hybrid for that much money is if they care about being green.

Hyrbids are for people who want to save on gas or of they are the environmental types. Most wealthy poles who but Porsche suvs and BMW or Mercedes sedans don't fit into this category.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,372
10 Aug 2017  #97
Speaking of silly comments weg you appear to not know what you're talking about so perhaps we should throw your uniformed comment in the bin.

Allow me to educate you since I actually know a thing or two about cars as I restore repair maintain and do all work on my cars myself as well as subscribe to car and driver:

Lambo hybrid/electric - none in production, concept and development only
Rari hybrid/electric - one production model that is a hybrid. Also one of the most expensive Ferraris recently one auctioned for 7 mil
Bentley - just starting plugin hybrid concept and development only on the suvs that are set to come out. If Bentley wasn't owned by vw they probably wouldn't be doing this. I predict a flop

BMW - has a few models they just recently came out with I.e. i8 which is pretty damn sexy actually but the i3 is hideous and costs well over 40k. Vast majority of BMW remain gas in north America with some diesel in europe and elsewhere.

Mercedesb- 3 models only out of dozens of offerings. All unpopular and unreliable. Phasing out s class gradually. Their blue diesels are far superior and popular. Also the cheapest one is a c class for 50k - around 10 15k more than the starting price of a c class and that model is basically just their cheapest 2 liter 4 banger with an electric engine that has a 10 mile range

Also we use to own a continental gt. Even though its gas you have to plug it into the wall to charge all the electronics or you'll have a dead battery the next morning. So a plug in wouldn't be a far stretch however most Bentley owners don't want a whiny little electric motor and generally prefer a big guzzling v12. Its not about the money for this class of buyers or gas prices. Its about having a large luxurious car with a powerful engine and lots of torque which an electric engine just doesn't give that same feel.

The only hybrid cars that are going to remain popular are the cheaper cars like Honda accords Toyota Corolla stuff like that. If someone wants a German car they can get an entry level BMW 3 or merc c for around 35 40k depending on options but the electric and hybrid ones cost way more. Even the hybrid Honda accord is almost 10k more than a loaded one when brand new.

Nothing kills a driving experience like a whiny toy sounding engine with no torque or exhaust sound when you punch it. Ill keep my American small block v8 German v8s and v12s and turbo diesels thank you very much.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
10 Aug 2017  #98
Ill keep my American small block v8 German v8s and v12s and turbo diesels thank you very much.

You will get to enjoy that from classic cars, but for day to day uses electric is going to replace ICE within a decade.
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
13 Aug 2017  #99
How to sleep in a Tesla

cleantechnica.com/2017/08/13/sleep-tesla-model-s-model-x

Tesla stock closed @ $358 last Friday the 13th of August :-)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,372
14 Aug 2017  #100
@peterweg

Not in us and I doubt in poland either and def not in a decade. UK is shooting for 2040 or whatever year they stated which is ambitious but it will probably relate to new cars that are sold not ones already in a country and registered. Hybrids and electrics will become more popular but the costs have to come down first. Right now only plastic pieces of crap like honda civic and accord hybrids sell well. The electric Nissan leaf and Mitsubishi were total flops. Very few middle/upper middle class ppl are willing to drop 40k on a lil compact Nissan when they can get an entry level luxury model for that much or even a Lexus hybrid or whatever.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,372
14 Aug 2017  #101
@johnny reb

You gotta get into bitcoin on the next correction man. $4,200 as of this morning. I purchased 5 at 2350 each about 2 3 weeks ago.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
14 Aug 2017  #102
The electric Nissan leaf and Mitsubishi were total flops.

Bollocks of the first order.

Since its inception, more than 250,000 Leafs have been sold worldwide through December 2016, making the Leaf the world's all-time best-selling highway-capable electric car in history.

Dirk diggler 9 | 4,372
14 Aug 2017  #103
@peterweg

electrek.co/2016/06/01/nissan-leaf-sales-down-tesla-model-3-fault/

Not in the us or poland. No one drives those. In the us you barely ever see them and i can count on one hand the amount ive seen in pl. Also 250k units since when? In 2016 alone ? Doubtful. Probabylly since its inception in 2010 which means 250K sold in just under 7 years. That's not very much.

Besides who cares. Those cars are garbage. I could run over that thing w my escalade and itd be like hitting a squirrel. Jap and Korean cars skimp out on metal so they compensate with putting tons of airbags everywhere.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
15 Aug 2017  #104
More bollocks.

Haphazard opinions are not facts.

And sales figures from a year ago that directly contradict the latest numbers is down right deceitful.

cleantechnica.com/2017/07/05/nissan-leaf-sales-keep-growing/

And of course in Europe the Tesla is not the market leader by a long shot.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,372
15 Aug 2017  #106
Lol 4th place in the market this ev month. I would hope after a 50% decline in 2016 that in 2017 sales would go up.

Who cares anyway those cars are garbage. The fact that japs and koreans generally skimp out metal in their cars is well known in auto circles. They don't even sound like a real car more like toy.

The fact that youd promote a nissan leaf alone shows your def not a car guy. The tesla atleast is fast and has a nice exterior but the leaf is garbage. That car was made to appeal to the ultra environmentalist liberal hippie types. 40 grand almost and you can't even take that car on a road trip what a crock of sh!t

Do you even change your own oil brakes etc or are you one of those helpless beta males who has to call in help just to change a tire lol
Peeweeher
16 Aug 2017  #107
No, I ride a sports bike. Car drivers like you are pussiez.

Please focus on the topic
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
17 Aug 2017  #108
You gotta get into bitcoin on the next correction man. $4,200 as of this morning.

We can start a thread in Off Topic about stocks,

I bought 200 shares of their stock back in March at $243 per share. (TSLA)

This morning TSLA opened at $362. I'm happy.
Bitcoin mirrors gold (high risk) and is up right now due to the uncertainty of the Asian market (sell off) because of N. Korea.
Back on topic though which is why a Polish Company could not come up with installing charging ports for electric cars in Poland and it's neighboring countries.

Tesla right now is leading in this sector as well as cars and lithium batteries.
Poland has a golden opportunity to cash in on some of these opportunities yet sits idle.
Please fill me on why.
Harry
17 Aug 2017  #109
why a Polish Company could not come up with installing charging ports for electric cars in Poland

Those are already present in every shopping mall in Warsaw. And there are others on the street too, I can think of at least six charging stations (with multiple chargers at each station) in the city centre run by RWE. The first hour of charge is free.

A little local knowledge goes quite a long way.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
17 Aug 2017  #110
It's the same all over Poland. Charging points are quite commonly available in cities, and the Polish government is encouraging their construction.

These things are well known to anyone that spends any time in Poland.
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
17 Aug 2017  #111
A little local knowledge goes quite a long way.

To bad your knowledge couldn't answer my question though.

These things are well known to anyone that spends any time in Poland.

You must not spend much time in Poland then not being able to answer my question without googling it for your next step.
My question was:

Poland has a golden opportunity to cash in on some of these opportunities yet sits idle.

Maybe you both are too short to digest my question.
Let me ask it again to simplify it for you.
Why is not Poland producing the physical charging ports, the lithium batteries and electric cars within the country of Poland ?
Why does Poland not give Tesla incentives to put some of their manufacturing in Poland ?
Could anyone one but D.D. and H.B. (they had their chance and blew it) explain this to me since I don't live in Poland.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
17 Aug 2017  #112
The Polish government plan to build one million electric cars. It was one of the first things they announced, and a competition is currently underway to produce the design.

The infrastructure will also be developed as part of the plan. Those of us living in Poland know about such plans.
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
17 Aug 2017  #113
The Polish government plan to build

The infrastructure will

So Poland is still talking about it while Tesla is cornering the market.

Those of us living in Poland know about such plans.

I don't live in Poland and I know of such plans so I guess you are not quite as smart as you think you are.

Again, my question was why Poland hasn't cashed in on these plans.
Why Poland hasn't given Tesla incentive to invest in Poland.
And that is why my question was purposely not addressed to you because you don't get it.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,372
17 Aug 2017  #114
I think the only place I saw them in wroclaw was near the airport but I wasn't like on a mission to see where car chargers are so mayb there were more and I just didn't see em. Im sure more will pop up as people make the move to electric and hybrid more and more.

I'm not sure about how construction of charging stations works in public areas but to have a home charger id have to put in a new breaker box run 2 or 3 aug (for quick charge 6 aug for standard) wires special outlets and all this other stuff. Itd cost me around 5k to 7k in remodeling my garage even with doing most of the work myself over the course of 2 weeks doing about 4 hours a day. That's what dissuaded me from buying a tesla. In the long run it just wasn't any significant savings it and id still need a 2nd car anyway for longer distances. If I had to drive like an hour to work and an hour back tho yeah i prolly would've done it. The exterior on the tesla is nice but the interior is a bit too minimalistic and simple for my liking and the fake leather or whatever material the seats were made seemed kind of cheap quality. The touch screen was nice tho that was like the only redeeming quality of the car. If I'm going to drop 70 grand on a car or sign a lease for 3 years its gonna be on a Mercedes jaguar BMW something like that. Mayb once I finish school and the BMW i8 is a lil cheaper ill look into it. That car is so much sexier than the tesla.

Im sure that the pl government encourages is it but the question is who's going to put up the funds for the infrastructure which is pretty expensive and recouping those costs would be rather slow as electricity is relatively cheap.
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
17 Aug 2017  #115
the question is who's going to put up the funds for the infrastructure

That is why I was wondering why Poland hasn't offered Tesla a tax break and incentive to invest not only in plants to build cars and batteries but also the charging stations.

Poland will end up buying batteries from Tesla directly along with charging stations in the long haul.
Please fill me in as I don't live in Poland to be a know it all foreigner living in Poland pretending to be Polish.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,372
17 Aug 2017  #116
@johnny reb

It would be efficient in the long run but require a significant investment upfront which Poland doesn't want to put up. Poland doesn't give out tax breaks or incentives for things like solar panels or hybrids. They generally feel other things are more deserving of government subsidies tax breaks etc. Also the fossil fuel industry esp coal and the company orlen are very powerful in Poland. Maybe if eu funds were devoted to such a program it would work
polinv
17 Aug 2017  #117
Very few in Poland can afford even the $35 grand car here (likely 50-60k fully loaded plus the usual duty mark up making a 250-300k zloty car) and since the majority of electricity in Poland is coal produced, it makes no sense from a green perspective in offering subsidies to Tesla. Now if Tesla wanted to manufacture the cars in Poland, there would certainly be some help from the government, as has been offered to the German car manufacturers in varing degrees. But the problem is that Tesla is struggling to sell the few cars it does actually produce, certainly this year, so I dont think its an issue that will ever arise.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
17 Aug 2017  #118
That is why I was wondering why Poland hasn't offered Tesla a tax break and incentive to invest not only in plants to build cars and batteries but also the charging stations.

Tesla is only the 5th largest selling electric car maker in Europe, with 10% of market share. There will be little market for Tesla cars in Poland.

Why the F*** would Poland offer incentives to Tesla?
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
17 Aug 2017  #119
But the problem is that Tesla is struggling to sell the few cars it does actually produce,

Motors CEO Elon Musk declared that the number of hand-raisers for the $35,000-and-up Model 3 had increased to almost 400,000 people, up from 325,000 reservations on April 7.
They can't make them fast enough.

Why the F*** would Poland offer incentives to Tesla?

Ah maybe because of the tax base it would create or the number of good paying jobs for the Polish workers it would create or to stimulate Poland's economy or .................

There will be little market for Tesla cars in Poland.

Ever hear of exporting where people can afford them in the rest of the EU ?
polinv
17 Aug 2017  #120
They can't make them fast enough.

Putting down a refundable deposit isnt the same as paying 35 grand (more likely 50 unless you want it base) for the car.

They can't make them fast enough.

In 2015 they lost $4k per car sold, this year H1 they lost $13k per car sold. The more they sell the more money they lose! Last quarter they burnt more than a billion dollars!


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