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How are electric cars doing in Poland?



Marsupial - | 937    
12 Jul 2017  #61

Yes i realise and agree with Jon 357. We have to work on it. Trust me we are, even in my small 10 man company. Slowly but surely. Today i went to bank to see if i can borrow money for another house. After they looked at my books they asked how much comes from mining and more to the point coal mining. It turns out less than 1%. They told me good because they dont lend for business invested in that stuff. Lol. I didn't comment but i think my eyebrows gave it away.


johnny reb 13 | 2,347    
15 Jul 2017  #62

I would have to agree as producing one battery for one of these electric cars would take as much carbon produced to run an 8 cylinder gas engine for eight years.

Bullshit

I hate it when someone calls me a liar.
Here is my source weg, what do you have to support your doubtful "bullshit" remark big guy ?

principia-scientific.org/study-tesla-car-battery-production-releases-as-much-co2-as-8-years-of-driving-on-gas

Mats-Ola Larsson at IVL has calculated how long you need to drive a gasoline or diesel car before it released as much CO2 as the battery manufacturing produced. The result was 2.7 years of CO2 emissions for a battery the same size as a Nissan Leaf and 8.2 years for a Tesla-sized battery, based on a series of assumptions.

These cars are a fad and after huge amounts of money is made by a select few on them I predict we go right back to carbon emission cars.
Dirk diggler 4 | 782    
15 Jul 2017  #63

@Marsupial

I doubt its for ethical reasons but rather the very risky nature of both the mining business and volatile commodity prices.. Especially coal which is attacked at all angles.

I guarantee you if you had a land mine company that was doing well they'd still give you a loan.
polinv    
15 Jul 2017  #64

Presently its very easy to raise VC money for projects involved with electric cars, internet of things, VR and AR. And these companies trade or are valued on very lofty premiums. So its a very easy way to make a lot of money until its clear that the technology isnt going to be universally adapted. Electric cars and VR would fall into that category. Investment wise I think battery makers are the way to go, not being limited to any given techology or field.
Marsupial - | 937    
16 Jul 2017  #65

Please note that all major ausrtralian banks have declared they will not support any new coal projects, period. Publicly on telly in paper. No longer viable as renewables are now cheaper and employ more people and have investers falling over themselves to join in. As the miners jump up and down another solar farm for 80,000 homes is approved. I would not worry about batteries that's not reality. Batteries have not had the intense research for 110 years oil had it but now they do. A battery you are looking at now has nothing to do with one you will be looking at in 3 years. A solar panel you got 5 years ago at 12% efficiency hardly compares to 20% you can buy now for same surface area and has nothing to do with one 4 years from now. Making projections on todays equipment is pointless if looking more than 2 years ahead don't waste your time doing it.
johnny reb 13 | 2,347    
16 Jul 2017  #66

has nothing to do with one you will be looking at in 3 years.

Sounds like a good time to buy a coal mine cheap.
What you say is true and goes for the burning of coal also.
Who knows what the future has to bring with the burning of coal.
Some sharp scientist from Poland may design a product when mixed with coal would give off a very low rate of carbon emissions making coal priceless for those rainy days when there is no sunshine.

I do know one thing though and that is Nuclear energy is very clean and very cheap.
One nuclear reactor in northern Poland could give Poland a huge boost not only for electric cars but also its economy and independence from Russia.
Marsupial - | 937    
16 Jul 2017  #67

We have lithium, uranium, gas , coal, iron and everything here. So what, its fake cause large mining companies mostly get the money and now with automated driverless trucks and machines those jobs are being eroded not because of the mineral itself but extraction method. So many more people are involved in the new stuff even as basic as installing solar panels on roofs all day every day. Large infrastructure is needed to build large power plants but if 5000 people install something they reduce this and their reliance on central power. If you have a even just a basic solar panel and basic battery i guarantee i can wire your flat so you bypass the grid and still run essentials. You want to mention reliance on russian power above, give every Pole a rebate based on watts for installing sonething, applicable to business and homes. Watch 10% of all reliance on russian power vaporize in the short term, build no.plants and no infrastructure and have no.ongoing cost for government only initial push cost. Let private industry make the money from the change and collect their tax to pay for the push. Just a part of an entire strategy including gas from usa.
polinv    
16 Jul 2017  #68

btw the big Aussie power storage unit is based on the same 18650 li-ion cells you find in a laptop. Those same cells are used in their cars. There is one theory going around that they couldnt shift enough cars so pushed the idea of building the power storage unit in Australian to dispose of these batteries. Remember, Tesla doesnt actually make the batteries, Panasonic does it for them. And they were contracted to purchase a lot of them (2bn units from memory). So that's a lot of product to shift if cars arent shifting. Aussie battery is great PR and a method to dispose of the cells.
johnny reb 13 | 2,347    
16 Jul 2017  #69

Remember, Tesla doesnt actually make the batteries, Panasonic does it for them.

My understanding is that Panasonic makes the cells and Tesla makes the modules and packs.
Panasonic invested heavily in Tesla Manufacturing Plants of batteries.
The Tesla Gigafactory 1 is a lithium-ion battery factory under construction, primarily for Tesla Inc. in Clark, Nevada,
The factory started limited production of Powerwalls and Powerpacks in the first quarter of 2016 using battery cells produced elsewhere, and began mass production of cells in January 2017.

The Gigafactory will be managed by Tesla with Panasonic joining as the principal partner responsible for lithium-ion battery cells and occupying approximately half of the planned manufacturing space, key suppliers combined with Tesla's module and pack assembly will comprise the other half of this fully integrated industrial complex.

Another Gigafactory 2 (a Tesla Battery Manufacturing Plant) is located in Buffalo New York USA.
Another Gigafactory (3) is going to be built by Tesla in the Czech Republic in Prague where a huge lithium deposit is located.
Very good time to make a long term investment in Tesla as their aim is to eventually be the number one car manufacturer in the world.
johnny reb 13 | 2,347    
23 Jul 2017  #70

Keep track of what it does in the next few months before I cash out.

Regarding TSLA, I seldom view anything as long term, more like two to three weeks, but I think I will be holding this one for awhile.

At least another eight weeks and then sell half of it and take my gain for the year.
Last Friday it closed at $328.
A lot is riding on the big introduction of the Model 3, which I think will be this coming Friday.
Right now nobody knows much about the car.
They haven't permitted any pictures of the interior, just the exterior.
There's no information about the specs: expected range, possibility of free charging at the super charging stations, the installed self - driving software, etc.

If the analysts like what they see on Friday, TSLA stock will probably get a big bump on the following monday and continue going up.

If the model 3 is too good, they may worry that it will cannibalize sales of the Models S and X, which are much more expensive and more profitable.

Share price in that event will not get too much of a bump immediately, but will take longer to move up.
Can't wait to see this Model 3.
Marsupial - | 937    
24 Jul 2017  #71

Gee johnny that is really really short term! See you can make America great again without buying obsolete rubbish. In fact let me give you a hand with that!
johnny reb 13 | 2,347    
24 Jul 2017  #72

Gee johnny that is really really short term!

That's why we call it "Day Trading".

without buying obsolete rubbish

Oh, I am not buying an electric car, I am just buying Tesla's stock.
Harry mocked me (like you are doing) for not being a successful day trader so I stuck my neck out on the line and shared my stock trading with Tesla (TSLA) here for everyone to see and to make Harry turn green.

Go back to post #52 on July 6th when I bought another 100 shares of TSLA at $312 per share and where I already owned 200 shares since March that I bought at $243 a share.

Today it is currently at $343 per share so since July 6th I have made $3000 on those 100 shares plus another $6000 on the 200 shares that I bought back in March so in the last two weeks I have made $9000 on just that one stock which is more then Harry made all last year.

Am I boasting ? No, I just want to explain to Harry that I take my day trading very seriously as it is my livelihood in retirement.

Tesla is a very expensive stock and hard to buy very many shares.
But, one way to do it would be to buy 10 call option contracts.
Here's an example.
On Friday the price closed at $328.40.
If you bought 10 call option contracts for September 15th delivery you would control the equivalent of 1,000 shares, since each contract is for 100 shares.
If the strike price was $330 per share it would cost you about $21,000.
If instead you chose a strike price of $340 per share it would cost $16,450, based on last Friday's option prices.
If, before September 15th, the price moved up to $350, or 6.5% above where it was friday, you could make as much as $20,000 for the $330 strike price and $10,000 for the $340 strike price.

As I predicted yesterday because of Model 3 coming out this friday that the stock would go up today which it did by $12 per share.
This should be a very solid stock until the fad of these electric cars diminish which they will.
So Marsupial and Harry, keep right on mocking me as I laugh at you both all the way to the bank.
Marsupial - | 937    
25 Jul 2017  #73

Eh i wasnt mocking you. It hardly makes a diff if you but whatever car. Its things like biggest energy company here offering to charge your car for $1 a day that make a difference in mass terms. In australia thats not even one litre of petrol. The petrol fad is nearing an end. If you cut it's price by 66% you would still become unviable. Killed by progress innovation and finally here comes the last part, economics. Oh and they are advertising this hard in prime time and swaying many people a day. The writing is on the wall my friend, renouce the dark side and join us.
TheOther 5 | 3,019    
25 Jul 2017  #74

That's why we call it "Day Trading".

That's called online gambling... :)
johnny reb 13 | 2,347    
25 Jul 2017  #75

That is exactly what it is......the Wall Street Casino.
And I will be the first to admit that I have lost my share also.
I would be ashamed to tell how much I lost a few years back investing in gold.
Tesla is a growing Corporation that is going nowhere soon.

If you cut it's price by 66% you would still become unviable.

Remember mate that the northern half of the United States is cold and grey six months a year.
You would use up your energy pack just on the heater in the car when it is sub zero not to mention no sunshine for weeks at a time to recharge with.

I would expect Poland is about the same.

This ain't the down under.
Marsupial - | 937    
25 Jul 2017  #76

True Johnny. That's why mother nature provided a million different way to move electrons including shimmying sheep across floors. But...one thing at a time. I will tell you about generating propulsion using a leg of lamb after work.
polinv    
25 Jul 2017  #77

Well, Tesla is one of the most heavily shorted stocks in America. There is a reason for this, but of course thats why it is able to rally on the slightest bit of good news.
johnny reb 13 | 2,347    
25 Jul 2017  #78

Tesla is one of the most heavily shorted stocks in America

I am very aware of that and my hat is off to you for picking up on that.
Not many here even know what you are talking about.
A lot of people, mainly analysts, see TSLA as a normal automobile manufacturer.
Its production and sale of cars isn't anywhere near where F and GM are.
It's not doing business like the bigger guys, using dealers and big parts and service areas of the dealership.
And they probably won't make a profit for a couple of years.
They said similar things about AMZN (Amazon) up until two or three years ago.
You are right a lot of people have shorted the stock.
They may be right and I may be wrong, but I do know that that represents a lot of people who are going to be BUYING shares one day to cover their positions.

I don't pay too much attention to fundamentals, except for debt and cash flow.
I watch my investing charts and a lot of people are steadily buying.
About the time that you begin to see favorable articles about TSLA, the stock will be above $1,000.
It's the same story that I've seen over and over again throughout my life.
If you have limited resources it may be more risky than you should be looking at, and that's fine.
Especially going the options route.
When you try to get into a new concept like this there are risks.
But down the road when things begin to work out the way I think they will, you can still buy it.
I look at Elon Musk's past successes, both with TSLA up to this point, and his Space-X company, and batteries, and solar technology.
The guy is good, a lot better than the morons who are running Ford and GM.
How all of this will effect Poland, who knows but it will.
polinv    
25 Jul 2017  #79

The worrying thing for Tesla is the more cars it sells the bigger losses it makes. Thats only 25,000 cars sold. And thats on the back of big subsidies. GM sells half a million a year yet manages to churn in a buck. ZIRP is allowing investors to indulge in Musk's fantasies for now, but when rates start going up and cash is no longer cheap, it will be time for him to come up with profits. At a thousand bucks Tesla will be worth 3 times that of GM at current levels. There will be a a few shares that hit a thousand bucks but Tesla won't be one of them. Unless it does a reverse split!
cms 9 | 1,003    
25 Jul 2017  #80

Why does each car increase losses ? Isn't the marginal profit per car positive ?
Marsupial - | 937    
25 Jul 2017  #81

Another thing to consider is france and uk have now set dates for total ban of petrol and diesel cars. All this does is inceease the pace of the race to sell heaps of the new tech. The dates are almost irrelevant, no one is waiting on the business side. There is a flood of new tech and they are racing each other for their market share already. Those who haven't started are already behind. Tesla has a good start and they have done this before most if not all. Now as the pace and uptake increases they should have a head start. Their shares and market share that we buy is not like buying mining stock and instead we are first. My question for tesla is how will they use their time advantage to win a bigger slice as dozens of hybrid and electric cars hit the market in the next 24 months?
johnny reb 13 | 2,347    
26 Jul 2017  #82

There will be a a few shares that hit a thousand bucks but Tesla won't be one of them.

Only time will tell.
Like Marsupial said, "this is early in the game", but so far I have made $23,000 on Tesla stock, which is enough for me to get a free vacation to Jamaica all winter and another one to Poland all next summer.

Free is good.
mafketis 16 | 4,609    
26 Jul 2017  #84

Where? Where? I was going to go to the high price rock store later, but if they're giving them out free then count me in!
johnny reb 13 | 2,347    
5 Aug 2017  #85

The cost of a new Tesla electric cars in the U.S.A. start at over $100,000 USD which makes it doubtful that a whole lot of them would be sold in Poland.

The worrying thing for Tesla is the more cars it sells the bigger losses it makes. Thats only 25,000 cars sold.

There is a long waiting line for them right now because they can not make them fast enough.

And for you doubters that mocked me, it has only been two weeks now and Tesla stock (TSLA) just hit my strike price today @ $357 !
Go back up to post #72 and read what I said about buying 10 call option stocks on Tesla which I did.

If, before September 15th, the price moved up to $350, or 6.5% above where it was friday, you could make as much as $20,000 for the $330 strike price and $10,000 for the $340 strike price.

I got mocked about free rocks.
Well Marsupial & mafketis, instead of being such wise asses when someone gives you advice about investing maybe you should listen and learn.

My contract is up 67% in two weeks.
Plus the100 regular shares that I bought for $312 on July 6th (post #52) I just cashed out on @$357 today (30 days held) and made another $4500 on those 100 regular shares.

I bought 200 shares of their stock back in March at $243 per share. (TSLA)

And I am still hanging unto my those original 200 shares of Tesla which has made me another $22,800 to date.
I still believe that Tesla stock could hit $1000 per share in three or four years.
So Harry, what ya'll think of my day trading skills now old boy ? :-)

polinv mentioned the heavy short position of a lot of big investors.
That's true, but most of them are under water on their positions, and some are now significantly in the red.
I read somewhere yesterday that the short people had lost $800 million on their short positions just on Wednesday and Thursday of this week.
There would have been further big losses today.
If TSLA continues to creep up, many of them are going to throw in the towel and cover their positions.
I believe that the value of the short position is $12 billion.
When some of those people begin to panic and start to buy to cover, there is going to be a short term surge in the price.

After the good earnings report this week my trading charts are showing the price began to move a lot and some of them may already be beginning to buy to cover their positions.

Anyway, as I said before, only time will tell.

Thanks to Trump, we've had a good market this year.

Back on topic however.........
Poland doesn't seem to have the market for electric cars presently because of the cost and infrastructure it takes to operate them.
weg04    
5 Aug 2017  #86

The cost of a new Tesla electric cars in the U.S.A. start at over $100,000 USD which makes it doubtful that a whole lot of them would be sold in Poland.

For someone who claims to hold stock, you should know what the starting price is.

But you don't. There is a surprise.
johnny reb 13 | 2,347    
5 Aug 2017  #87

The cost of a new Tesla electric cars in the U.S.A. start at over $100,000 USD

For someone who claims to hold stock, you should know what the starting price is. But you don't.

I think the Tesla model 3 starts at $35,00, the model S starts at about $68,000 but the new one that was just unveiled is over $100,00.
Sorry to have confused you but you must have missed the 'key word' in that sentence which was NEW.
Read the article below that explains it all.
I also read another article that they now want to put into the infrastructure of the freeways a system that can charge electric cars while you are driving them down the freeway.

How long do you think Poland will take to do that ?
I will be dead and gone before all this becomes a reality.
Much of what is to come with electric cars has not even been developed yet.
I found this an interesting article.

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-04/karma-revero-review-this-is-a-very-bad-car-and-here-is-why

I am done talking about my semi retired "day trading" job.
(Now you may understand why I spend so much time on line)
Harry questioned my day trading skills so I stuck my neck out and shared when I bought more Tesla stock on the advice of my trading charts.

Successful stock trading all boils down to timing of when to buy and when to sell.
Without my trading charts I would feel naked in the stock market.
My intent was not to boast but share which seems to bring out provoking jealous derogatory remarks.
I don't need that kind of punch in the gut attitudes from idiots.
Dirk diggler 4 | 782    
5 Aug 2017  #88

@johnny reb

Not only the lack of infrastructure but consumer buying trends as well. If a upper middle class/wealthy pole is going to spend 50k 70k 100k on a car they tend to go German - bmw, Mercedes and Porsche. The small Porsche Macans and bmw 5s are especially popular. British cars esp jaguar and land rover are becoming more popular too and I've seen a few Bentley continentals as well.

Typically the hybrid cars or smaller cars like Toyota auris and the skodas fords etc are purchased by middle class people who can't quite afford a car over 40k 50k plus. Although what I've noticed is that the taxis vary like crazy. In the us there's pretty much only like 4 or 5 models that taxi drivers typically use where in Poland they use everything from the cheap Romanian dacias to Audi wagons to Mercedes s class (my fav daily driver car). There are a lot of taxis that are hybrids though esp Toyota auris.

In Russia the guys love their hummers lol esp in a bright color. Gas is super cheap there so people don't really pay attention to fuel efficiency.
johnny reb 13 | 2,347    
7 Aug 2017  #89

Tesla is finally attracting attention in Europe.
It's time Poland jumps in before they miss the boat on this one.
Having Czechoslovakia as a neighbor with huge lithium deposits is an opportunity for Poland.
Germany's new billion dollar battery plant ought to open some eyes.
This is a very interesting article on it.
cnbc.com/2017/08/07/elon-musks-tesla-could-soon-be-overtaken-in-batteries-arms-race.html
polinv    
7 Aug 2017  #90

They are certainly attracting attention today with their $1.5bn bond issue. One of the many risk factors in the prospectus:
"We have no experience to date in manufacturing vehicles at the high volumes that we anticipate for Model 3."
That's an understatement.




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