The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / Life  % width posts: 178

How are electric cars doing in Poland?


johnny reb 17 | 3,873
17 Aug 2017  #121
a refundable deposit

The deposit is a $1000 times 400,000 people ..........you do the math.

they lost $13k per car sold.

Have to spend a little sometimes to make a lot in the long run.
The three huge battery factories alone is costing Tesla BILLIONS to build so losing only $13k per car sold is chump change.
And it's not lost money, it is re invested money.
These battery factories alone (not including the cars and charging stations that Tesla builds) by 2020 will dominate the world market.....cha ching !
peterweg 36 | 2,316
19 Aug 2017  #122
So Poland is still talking about it while Tesla is cornering the market.

Tesla have 10% of the European electric car market, they aren't market leaders

Poland will end up buying batteries from Tesla directly along with charging stations in the long haul.

You seem to under the delusion that Tesla have a monopoly on any part of the electric car market:

- Electric batteries are being manufactured by two other battery makers whose production will exceed Tesla's. Tesla's batteries are made by Panasonic

- Hundreds of companies make charging stations, a standard wall socket will do a a push.its 19th century technology.

- Cars are manufactured by hundreds of companies with vastly more manufacturing experience than Tesla. That's why Nissan and BMW outsell Tesla with lower prices.

These battery factories alone (not including the cars and charging stations that PANASONIC builds) by 2020 will dominate the world market.....cha ching !

There, corrected you
delphiandomine 83 | 17,658
19 Aug 2017  #123
- Cars are manufactured by hundreds of companies with vastly more manufacturing experience than Tesla.

Which is why the Polish government has no interest in subsidising an unproven company.

Tesla are pretty much minor players in Europe.
Harry
19 Aug 2017  #124
Tesla have 10% of the European electric car market, they aren't market leaders

They don't even have that much anymore. Last year their market share fell to 7% and they're not in the top five producers. This year they'll fall below Volvo too: in the first ten months of last year Tesla sales grew by 7%, the rest of the EV market saw sales increase by 23%, Mercedes RV sales grew by 166%, BMW by 156% and Volvo 140%. But it is hilarious to see somebody who knows nothing about Poland or Europe insisting that Tesla is cornering the market here!
delphiandomine 83 | 17,658
19 Aug 2017  #125
He really ought to stick to fantasy share dealing, because it's clear that his knowledge of the European EV market is zero.

Tesla can't even turn a profit on their existing operations, why the hell would the Polish government invest in them?

Musk's business model all along has been to extract large subsidies from a very gullible American government who was desperate to see another domestic "success story".
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,519
19 Aug 2017  #126
@delphiandomine

Don't forget fisker and a123 battery. At least the Chinese made several hundred million just by buying a123 off the Americans then selling it back around a year later.
johnny reb 17 | 3,873
19 Aug 2017  #127
There, corrected you

Not exatly as I suggest you go back and read post #69 because I am not going to repeat myself again.

Tesla's batteries are made by Panasonic

May I correct you sir.
My understanding is that Panasonic makes the cells and Tesla makes the modules and packs.
Panasonic invested heavily in Tesla Manufacturing Plants of batteries.
Their customers are not just car companies either as they supply the military complexes around the world.
Like I tried to explain in post #69, Tesla is building 3 gigantic battery factories.

Another Gigafactory is located in New York, another being built by Tesla in Prague where a huge lithium deposit is located.

Once they are up and running we at that time can talk about who has cornered the market on them
As far as the other two replying ex-pat googling experts trying to speak for Poland AGAIN about being experts on any and all subjects (and this certainly is not one of them)........just consider the source.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
19 Aug 2017  #128
Tesla is building 3 gigantic battery factories.

Problem for Tesla is that the two other major battery manufacturers are matching the production of Tesla/Panasonic to supply the rest of the worlds car manufacturers.
ev reasercher - | 1
19 Aug 2017  #129
Hi, just read all the posts and found the topic very interesting. You all seem to have a good knowledge about ev industry so I am happy to see Your point of view. I got some basic knowledge, a few experiences and keep my eyes open. Have you heard a joke: Should Warsaw be ashamed of it's public toilet system? No, it shouldn't. It doesn't have any. It can be funny or not as a joke but that's a fact. Let's make things more serious. Why Musk is not building a factory in Poland (no matter if it's worth it or not)? Just google: 'polish government', see the faces and You will know why. I may not be right and I my lack of information abut polish government policy but things can be simple as that - see the faces and answer if there are any potential ev car owners.

Charging stations are not the problem in Poland as they were rising up since a decade in Warsaw and probably in other cities. Still they were not used for years. I suppose it was not only a long term plan to swith to electric cars or green energy, rather EU cash that had to be spent no matter what. Since we differ from every other open minded country there's no chance we will have electric cars soon in Poland. We are a poor country - don't forget about it. You may not see that from the charts and YouTube but that's true (Am I talking like Trump? Sorry for that, but that's true). Electric cars are the last thing Polish people will buy and the goverment will spent more money on supporting minings than promoting ev industry, ecology or space projects during next decades. Changes in law that are needed to grow positive trends and changes take much longer than in other EU countries. I was trying to make one ev vehicle legal to ride in Poland and after a while it was sure that nothing can be done - only a death of a user or a serious accident will make things clear in one moment, didn't find volounteers though. Even if there were any the decision would be: it is not allowed to drive this vehicle, which was obvious from the begining but not stated clear in the law. Making business with all the eco/ev/green things is a risky one in Poland since there are not so many enthusiasts in the public sector that will help You. You will find questions, problems, forms and paperwork and You will be a person that disturbs the stability of the system.

From all the people I know I got one friend riding a home made ev bike, two ev golf carts owners, and one company selling ev vehicles - probably more than an average Warsaw citizen. Nobody owes an electric car. I want to buy a ev bike, ev motorbike and ev car to test if it makes sense and to sell those. I am pretty sure that I am the only person that can convince my friends to have one. The government can convince them but it will take ages. Car dealers may do it but we didn't run ouf oil yet so it will be take a decade or two since they are interested in selling those. In my opinion only thing that can grow ev market faster is supporting the early begginers. I was a beta tester of PLAY. They gave me a smartphone and I had the opportunity to make video calls and browsing web many many years ago - it was like SF to me. Play is the leader of the mobile market in Poland now. The same should be done with ev products. Without providing ev products to early begginers in won't grow. If I had the opportunity to ride any ev car I want I would make the market grow at least 1% (beiing 1 person in Poland). More or less one thousand ev cars was registered in Poland in 2016. Selling 1% from 1000 is 10 pcs. That's one B2B client. If there are 10 companies interested in ev market in PL they should give away at least 10 vehicles per one big city to be used, lent and promoted by early begginers. There are many people that cannot afford to have ev bike, ev motorbike, ev car but there is plenty of them that can have one no matter what the price is. The reason why it is not growing faster is reachability. Till Your friend doesn't have ev vehicle that You can ride for fun - You won't buy it. There are many other options like rentals and shops in best locations, but there are not many people willing to risk so much.

Since few days I am making a small reaserch willing to extend my offer to ev products. It is not that simple to find a company that sells ev products in Poland, especially when it goes about a product that is produced in Poland that can be promoted and exported to EU and other countries. Most of them are small comapnies, kickstarter projects and from investors' or customers' point of view it is not an easy choice. I will be very happy to talk about ev buisness in Poland with You, please forgive my foolish atitude but that's how I see that topic - it's one of many things that will not move forward without enthusiasts, early begginers or crazy investors. I will make more reaserch and will be happy to share my point witth You. I will act as a mystery shopper/potential customer and investor. Please share Your ideas and questions as I will try to find the answers for the next few months.
johnny reb 17 | 3,873
20 Aug 2017  #130
Problem for Tesla is that the two other major battery manufacturers are matching the production of Tesla/Panasonic

Currently you mean.
It has become apparent that you are very negative toward the future of Tesla because it is U.S.A. based.
I have repeated myself three times now and you seem to not want to comprehend.

Like I tried to explain in post #69, Tesla is building 3 gigantic battery factories.

These factories are mega huge and no doubt will eventually corner the world market whether you Brits like it or not.
Tesla is on the cutting edge of research and development of these batteries which will change the future of the world.
Harry
20 Aug 2017  #131
He really ought to stick to fantasy share dealing, because it's clear that his knowledge of the European EV market is zero.

It is quite amusing to see him posting here at five o'clock in the morning his time insisting that a company which isn't even in the top five in Europe is cornering the market here. Hilarious even, given that the company he's ignorant enough to think is the market leader here has single-digit growth in sales of EVs while actual car companies which have sales and service networks in Europe are recording triple-digit growth in sales of EVs.
Peeweeher
20 Aug 2017  #132
Since we differ from every other open minded country there's no chance we will have electric cars soon in Poland. We are a poor country - don't forget about it.

This is very true. For the next 5 years new EV will cost more than ICE vehicles. Poles wii stick to the cheaper end of the price range, but that will increasingly included second hand EV/hybrids.

Currently pure EV, also has a severe restriction for winter use - cold weather can halve the range. Until solid state batteries become the norm, hybrid is probably the bed option for most Poles.
Peeweeher
20 Aug 2017  #133
These factories are mega huge and no doubt will eventually corner the world market whether you Brits like it or not.

As I said, two other companies are each matching the size of Teslas factories and supplying the rest of the world's car manufacturers.

Tesla is building batteries for its own cars and it's own powerbanks. Not for the rest of the market .
johnny reb 17 | 3,873
20 Aug 2017  #134
Who is Peeweeher pretending to be Peterweg ?

As I said, two other companies are each matching the size of Teslas factories

And who would these companies be ?

Not for the rest of the market .

Tesla will put a huge dent in the market when their three new plants open.
By 2025 they should corner the market.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
20 Aug 2017  #135
"Currently, electronics makers in Asia control the battery business. South Korea's LG Ltd. and Samsung SDI Co. are among the top vendors, according to BNEF. Asia is expected to maintain its lead with an additional eight factories being constructed in China alone.

Automakers are moving quickly to secure battery capacity. Daimler's factory would be the biggest yet in Europe, responding to Tesla's $5 billion Gigafactory venture with Panasonic Corp. ."

"Large-scale factories planned in Sweden, Hungary and Poland, as well as Daimler's battery assembly plant in Germany, are expected to feed demand from automakers such as Volkswagen AG and Renault SA. "

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-22/move-over-tesla-europe-s-building-its-own-battery-gigafactories

New Electric models coming to market
johnny reb 17 | 3,873
20 Aug 2017  #136
Damn, I better sell all my Tesla stock first thing Monday morning if that's the case !
Harry
20 Aug 2017  #137
Daimler's factory would be the biggest yet in Europe, responding to Tesla's $5 billion Gigafactory venture with Panasonic Corp. ."

Would that be the same Daimler which owns Mercedes, which had growth in EV sales in the EU in the first ten months of 2016 of 166% while Tesla had growth of just 7% and now sells more EVs in the EU than Tesla does? Haven't the bosses at Daimler heard that Tesla have "cornered the market" in Poland?!

their three

Interesting to see the number three being mentioned in connection with Tesla, given that three is the number of superchargers in the whole of Poland. And three is also the number of Tesla superchargers in the Czech Republic, the Slovak Republic and Hungary combined. But three is also three more than the total number of Tesla service points in Poland, the Czech Republic, the Slovak Republic and Hungary combined. Sixty-four million people in the V4 countries but just 6 Tesla superchargers and zero Tesla service points: how could they corner the market any further?!
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,519
20 Aug 2017  #138
@johnny reb

Yea in terms of electric cars I like teslas a lot. The BMW i8 is very cool too and it would make a fun commuter. The Chevy volt is decent too. I'm not a big fan of Japanese and korean cars with a few exceptions they just seem so flimsy and they skimp out on metalwork esp the frames in Hyundai and kias
johnny reb 17 | 3,873
20 Aug 2017  #139
Your reading comprehension is very poor Harr or you spinning my posts intentional in an effort to try and humiliate me which sadly only makes you look like an idiot.

We are talking about Tesla BATTERRY PLANTS to corner the world market Harr, now tune in here.
Have you a clue how big these plants will be compared to what there is now ?
Take a look here:

greencarreports.com/news/1098352_tesla-gigafactory-drone-flyover-shows-how-huge-it-really-is
peterweg 36 | 2,316
20 Aug 2017  #140
greencarreports.com/news/1112159_rip-natural-gas-cars-doomed-by-cheap-gas-and-electric-cars

Interesting difference to the EU and US, LPG is half the price of petrol or diesel in Poland, more than half the cars sold run on it.
johnny reb 17 | 3,873
21 Aug 2017  #141
As I stated back in the beginning of this thread that I personally don't think ev will be around for long as we know them.

Electric cars are an up and coming short life fad

Technology today is designing motors that are amazing the amount of HP to come out of such small gas engines.

LPG is half the price of petrol or diesel in Poland,

Same in the U.S.A. and there is a glut of LPG, a by product of all the oil drilling that is going on.

My home heating LPG is less then $1.00 per gallon while petrol sells for about $2.50 per gallon for my truck.
What are the costs of LPG & petrol in Poland presently ?
The environment will suffer much more from the use of ev then it will from LPG or petrol cars.
Once the Greenies figure that out the fad of ev will slowly die out unless there are major design improvements. IMO
Harry
21 Aug 2017  #142
We are talking about Tesla BATTERRY PLANTS to corner the world market Harr, now tune in here.

If you want to have an off-topic discussion, you'll be having that one by yourself. I'm talking about your laughable claim that "So Poland is still talking about it [building electric cars] while Tesla is cornering the market." I'm talking about it and I'm still laughing at it, given that Tesla can only manage single-digit growth in sales of EVs in the EU while the rest of the sellers manage to have growth that is triple that of Tesla and that Tesla isn't even in the top five sellers here and that a company which saw its main brand record growth in EV sales in the EU in the first ten months of 2016 of 166% is now building a factory bigger than the one Tesla is partially building.
johnny reb 17 | 3,873
21 Aug 2017  #143
We are talking about Tesla BATTERRY PLANTS to corner the world market Harr, now tune in here.

Why do you keep wanting to spin the issue here Harr ?
You should really go to off - topic discussion if you insist on doing that.

Tesla isn't even in the top five sellers here

I can't remember making such a claim to that spin of yours to divert my claims.

that a company which is now building a factory bigger than the one Tesla is partially building.

Which battery factory is bigger than one of the three Tesla's new battery buildings ?
You just want to troll argue by parroting your obsessive compulsive claims that have nothing to do with mine to drive your frivolous point into the ground.

If you want to troll to an off - topic discussion of my point of Tesla battery plants then you'll be talking to yourself.
Harry
21 Aug 2017  #144
I can't remember making such a claim

Perhaps you'd like me to jog your memory? In polishforums.com/life/poland-electric-cars-doing-66863/4/#msg1608137 you wrote:

So Poland is still talking about it while Tesla is cornering the market.

"It" referred to plans to build EVs and infrastructure.

However, the reality is most certainly not that Tesla is cornering the market in Poland, quite the opposite. In 2014 Tesla sold a grand total of eight cars in Poland. They have three superchargers in the entire country. They do not have even a single service point in Poland. Your ignorance of Tesla in Poland is staggering.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,519
21 Aug 2017  #145
Yea Poland's a bit behind in the whole ev game. I remember looking at a map of charging stations in Europe and what I recall is in terms of density uk had the most. Hybrids are relatively popular bc of high petrol costs but there's other alternatives some people put lpg some shell out extra for an efficient diesel just depends on what a consumer wants. Typically if an upper middle class pole is going to shell out 40 50 60 grand or more for a car they tend to go w German primarily and British or American 2nd
johnny reb 17 | 3,873
21 Aug 2017  #146
Not to mention that Tesla is a full size luxury car while the Eurp's are one size up from a beer can.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,658
21 Aug 2017  #147
Not really. A common complaint among Tesla owners is the poor finishing and quality of the cars. I certainly wouldn't call them luxury.

the Eurp's are one size up from a beer can.

Clearly never been to Europe, have you?

In 2014 Tesla sold a grand total of eight cars in Poland.

You can get a cracking deal on a Tesla in Poland, simply because Tesla's presence in Poland is minimal.
johnny reb 17 | 3,873
21 Aug 2017  #148
In 2014 Tesla sold a grand total of eight cars in Poland.

Not surprising as they are out of the price range of most Poles.
World wide however they sold over 50,000 Tesla in 2014.

Not to mention that Tesla is a full size luxury car

Not really. A common complaint among Tesla owners is the poor finishing and quality of the cars.

Oh yes really very much so a luxury car that is quality made.
You get a bit reckless with the truth sometimes delph.....is it jealousy or just pure trolling ?
In fact read the reviews for yourself on Tesla for 2014.

thecarconnection.com/s/33/overview/tesla_model-s_2014
delphiandomine 83 | 17,658
21 Aug 2017  #149
pinnacle of the electric-car pyramid, combining elegant design, stunning acceleration, and excellent safety ratings in a single package

Doesn't mean much. I've driven one, and while electronically, it's a great car, it was lacking many of the finishing touches that make a real luxury car. The seats in particular weren't much better than my VW, and certainly nothing compared to brands like Audi or Lexus.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,519
21 Aug 2017  #150
@johnny reb

Youd be surprised johnny by what poles can afford. Theres especially a lot of Porsche Macans and BMW 5s in wroclaw. However cars above the 50k 60k usd mark are rare. I predict most of those cars are leases and not outright purchases though.

You see a lot of the low to mid end German cars I.e. BMW 3 and 5, Mercedes c and e and especially a lot of the smaller suv like Mercedes glk (what I own) gle BMW x3 Porsche macan etc but not the higher end like BMW 7s Mercedes s550 Porsche panamera etc but there's still a few around.


Home / Life / How are electric cars doing in Poland?
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.