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How are electric cars doing in Poland?


johnny reb 16 | 3,433
21 Aug 2017  #151
Tesla sold a grand total of eight cars in Poland.

And delph was lucky enough to drive one of them if you can believe that.

I've driven one

I have driven one too and will admit the seats were not like the leather ones in my truck.

it's a great car, it was lacking many of the finishing touches that make a real luxury car.

They are still considered a luxury car especially when you compare them to the oversized beer cans that the Eurps drive.
Of course......... "real luxury car" costs twice as much as a Tesla so they should have twice as nice seats to sit in.
You can't compare a Tesla to a Rolls Royce delph, you have to stay in the same price range to compare apples to apples.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
21 Aug 2017  #152
I predict most of those cars are leases and not outright purchases though.

There's no sense in buying a new car in PL outright, because leasing deals are so damned competitive. My friend got a new leased Lexus for 4 years, with a 40,000km yearly limit, no deposit and payments are only 1% of the cost of the car monthly. They cover everything except fuel, so there's zero point in owning a car if you have a business, especially as the tax system is so friendly towards leased cars.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
21 Aug 2017  #153
Dann that's high. For us 14k 15k miles is considered a high mileage lease. (1.6km equals 1 mile). Usually 10k miles is around the standard and you pay a huge penalty if you go over. I noticed the lease prices are roughly the same everywhere but terms are a bit different country to country. I have a turbo diesel Honda crv that I drive when I come to poland but its got like 10 years 150k km on it from all the road trips through the years. Im not a big fan of Honda's but I got it pretty cheap. It was used when I bought it though it was 2 years old and had some 20k km on it. It was actually from a lease. Someone leased it but stopped making payments.
johnny reb 16 | 3,433
24 Aug 2017  #154
Things in this article about the impact of electric vehicles which includes Poland too.

thedrive.com/tech/13692/electric-cars-will-leave-lots-of-losers-in-their-wake-says-jpmorgan
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
29 Sep 2018  #155
About the time that you begin to see favorable articles about TSLA, the stock will be above $1,000.

Looks like Tesla are finished. The stock is at $260 and in freefall, Musk is about to get banned from serving as a company director and the company needs cash badly. They can't get the Model 3 out the door, Musk is losing it and the legacy manufacturers are doing a much better job at the same thing. All those people shorting Tesla are laughing right now, and the stock is headed for the basement.

I doubt Musk will be at the helm by the end of 2019, and it wouldn't shock me if Tesla were finished as an independent manufacturer by then.
jon357 63 | 14,110
29 Sep 2018  #156
There's nothing 'tesla' can do that other companies round the world can't. Aside from Musk's public meltdown and drug abuse, there's not enough to even justify the price of 260. The people who still hold the stocks tend to be people who didn't react fast enough. Investors in Europe and Asia are shorting those stocks and laughing while they do it.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
29 Sep 2018  #157
Glad i shorted as soon as i heard the sec announcement. I sold yesterday though. Easy 12% roi. Ill wait to see whats going on Monday morning to see if ill go for it again and resell a day or two later. I dont like to hold short positions for a long time. Just get a few points and get out.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
29 Sep 2018  #158
there's not enough to even justify the price of 260.

Nothing at all. They've burnt through a lot of cash, and I saw that they owe around $3bn to suppliers while only having enough cash in the bank to last them until early next year. The fundamentals are all wrong, and anyone who actually knows anything about business would know that the whole thing was built on media hype around Musk, not on the actual product.
jon357 63 | 14,110
29 Sep 2018  #159
Just the right side of fraudulent trading. A very poor investment run by a very dodgy guy who may well yet end up sharing a cell with that Shkreli creep.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
29 Sep 2018  #160
Negative income, no dividends, negative eps... makes zero sense. It's like bitcoin its all hype. Bitcoin was only goimg up because so many people thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. When i bought it it was like 3k. When i was day trading it while in poland last year it hit something like 15k 16k and its been on a decline since with floor getting lower and lower

Shkreli is awesome. His genius was his simplicity. Buying a drug with few to no generics and jacking up the price several hundred percent. If he didn't rip off some investors hed be a free man now. Either way hes got a bright future on wall street or in pharma once hes out.

One of.my friends owns of tesla. My gf and i were considering buying one for her business since shes always on the road. Then i found out somethinf as simple as lug nuts requires a call to tesla and you can only get the car fixed at dealerships. Oh and you have to redo all the electrical in your garage esp.if you want the quick or dual charge. Running 2 3 aug wire is no joke
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
29 Sep 2018  #161
who may well yet end up sharing a cell with that Shkreli creep.

I wouldn't be surprised if he does. He's really deep in trouble now, and he looks like a complete wreck during public appearances. If the stock continues to freefall on Monday, he's going to get more and more desperate.
jon357 63 | 14,110
29 Sep 2018  #162
and he looks like a complete wreck during public appearances

Libelling that spelunker (and then repeating the libel) was a sign that he's out of control. That will doubtless cost him dear, not just in legal fees and libel damages, but also in reputational loss; nobody is on his side. Like the jerk Shkreli (an individual devoid of any sort of morality or personal limits), he's all mouth. Nobody actually likes that, and when first of all people's jobs and secondly investors' money is at risk, it means he's finished.

And of course more stable and capable businesses, in Japan, in Korea, in Europe and even in China are developing all sorts of automotive technologies, ones cheaper (and affordable in e.g. Poland) to produce than his, ones that are better quality, ones that don't come from tarriff-land, and ones that people want to buy.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
29 Sep 2018  #163
Libelling that spelunker (and then repeating the libel) was a sign that he's out of control.

That was absolutely absurd, all because they didn't want to use his toy that he made. Calling someone a paedophile repeatedly because they don't agree with you isn't the actions of a stable person.

first of all people's jobs and secondly investors' money is at risk, it means he's finished.

I'd say that it's the other way round. Big institutional investors don't like risk, they like returns. The people working there will burn out sooner rather than later with the way he's been pushing them, too.
jon357 63 | 14,110
29 Sep 2018  #164
Nothing suggests that he is in any sense a stable person. All that '420' stuff is hardly reassuring to his employees or to the sources of his corporate finance, either.

The people working there will burn out

Normal for over there, and meanwhile manufacturers in Europe and Asia soar ahead.

I've never even seen a 'tesla' in Poland, although Poles are keen on new vehicle technology.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
29 Sep 2018  #165
There's a couple in PoznaƄ and a charging station, but they're not popular at all. Hybrids are much more popular here, because of the lack of charging stations. I've got my eye on a Nissan Leaf though - great car, solid, quick as hell and without any of the issues associated with Tesla. They've just released a new model as well, so it might be possible to pick up a second hand model for nearly nothing.

The big advantage in Poland is free parking in cities and free use of bus lanes. Tesla doesn't have any presence here at all, while other manufacturers are pushing their models strongly.
jon357 63 | 14,110
29 Sep 2018  #166
Hybrids are much more popular here, because of the lack of charging stations

This makes sense, and as petrol prices rise people will look at hybrids. No 'teslas' though.

Nissan Leaf

Lovely cars.

Tesla doesn't have any presence here at all, while other manufacturers are pushing their models strongly.

They've figured out which markets actually matter and where the real competition comes from.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
29 Sep 2018  #167
This makes sense, and as petrol prices rise people will look at hybrids. No 'teslas' though.

Absolutely, I looked at one as well, but a fully electric meets my needs more - I have a commute to work that has a lengthy bus lane, so I could save a considerable amount of time with it. Hybrids are nice though, my friend gets 4.5l/100km out of his without babying it.

They've figured out which markets actually matter and where the real competition comes from.

Exactly. Tesla did a great job of promoting them, but they've done a poor job of actually producing and selling them. The fall in the share price reflects that.
jon357 63 | 14,110
29 Sep 2018  #168
Absolutely, I looked at one as well, but a fully electric meets my needs more

We're thinking of buying one., perhaps a Nissan. My old banger (I had it for 25 years) finally passed away and although I'm not much bothered about having one, given where we live my OH can get new cars tax-free, and wants to buy one. We both want something green, electric appeals, but definitely not a 'tesla'. I don't want to buy from Musk, and would rather support European manufacturers. It has to be safe and comfortable though, even though we'll only use it for going to the shops and weekend visits to the dzialka which is quite a long way from Warsaw.

I'd favour a hybrid, due to lack of charging stations for fully electric cars.

Looking at some of the cars on the Polish market, it's hard to see why anyone would buy a 'tesla' at all. Or any other American junk.
lul bul - | 48
29 Sep 2018  #169
We have a Hybrid Highlander,I tell you great car but you will reap your money after 8 years of ownership with gas.Never owned a electric one but please dont buy a Hybrid.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
29 Sep 2018  #170
Looking at some of the cars on the Polish market, it's hard to see why anyone would buy a 'tesla' at all. Or any other American junk.

Not much point at all in buying American here, the dealership networks aren't strong and after market parts tend to be at a premium. Ford sometimes have reasonable deals, but what you get is pathetic compared to the offers from the likes of Kia. I remember Ford were offering a pathetic 2 year guarantee at the same time Kia offered their 7 year one, and even my new VW came with a 4 year guarantee as standard.
jon357 63 | 14,110
29 Sep 2018  #171
I quite like KIa; they used to be my client. A few friends have recently bought Jaguars, both new ones and old ones. Nice looking, comfortable, but not very green; electric or hybrid is a big plus.

For us, cost isn't the consideration due to the tax-free thing, however reliability is, as well as cost of any repairs. Electric/hybrid worries me on that score.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,596
29 Sep 2018  #172
That's a question with no answer. The technology is still so new that it's hard to tell what will happen, though the first generation of Leafs seem to be holding up well. I have severe doubts about engines from the last 4-5 years though, because many of them are being highly stressed to meet emissions limits.
Vlad1234 13 | 532
29 Sep 2018  #173
Currently the largest problem is price and longevity of the batteries. A small innovative companies and inventors not always have funds.
I've patented an innovative type of supercapacitor 1.5 years ago, but still wasn't able to developed it into a commercial product. I think it could be used in EV's too. There is simply no accessible government or private programs for this.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
1 Oct 2018  #174
Tesla back up 16% today after sec settles with tusk. Man am i glad i held my short for only a day

@vlad
Obama spent billions in green energy including lithium ion batts and ev - huge failures. All they did was enrich the chinese. Fisker is a non entity now. Beautiful cars waaay nicer than the tesla. But lot of problems. Theyre now relaunching with chinese money. They bought it for pennies when it declared bankruptcy despite all the money obama gave em. Same with a123 battery. Thanks obama for funneling billions to the chinese
jon357 63 | 14,110
2 Oct 2018  #175
though the first generation of Leafs seem to be holding up well.

certainly better for the Polish market than those 'tesla' things. There's nothing they can do that others can't do better.
TheWizard - | 238
4 Oct 2018  #176
@ vlad...i am.interested in your capacitor!
Vlad1234 13 | 532
5 Oct 2018  #177
Yes, please, what do you wish to know?

Obama spent billions in green energy including lithium ion batts and ev - huge failures.

In difference from US Canada hardly have any government grants and programs for batteries and EVs development. Li-ion are too expensive and bulky. We need an alternative to make an affordable plug-in hybrid reality.
TheWizard - | 238
6 Oct 2018  #178
Batteries are hardly a failure, they are a step on the way to getting this stuff right. Yep more expensive but who said for now that these cars are for poor people? They are not. Its not a case of massive production for them yet, not quite up to that stage. As the technical issues are sorted in electric and other these will become more and more mainstream and in the range of tbe avarage punter. We are all witnessing the very beginning of this transformation, we are not in the full swing of it.


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