The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?

They're categorized separately. The laws here are very restrictive when it comes to personal ownership. On the other hand, there are shooting ranges where you can rent pistols and rifles :)

Strange.

Neither the gun-grabbers nor their weak-minded, gun-fearing blind followers care one bit about things like logic, reason, facts and statistics or reality. All they know is 'guns bad'. They're like unthinking childish robots and one can never reason with such dupes. This is why they should be removed from the conversation and ignored.


Well this is good. At least peeps can be exposed to guns to some degree and see they're not as scary as they've been made out to be. :s

I've long said that gun safety should be a course taught in schools here. To remove some of the stigma and fear and promote safety... to remove some of the mystery so a kid finding a gun isn't so intrigued by it...

The gun-fearing folks as well as the grabbers gasp at such a suggestion. The very last thing they want is to remove the anti-gun stigma they have worked so hard to engineer in society.

OldPolka, I own several hand and hunting guns and I shoot them regularly and in United States people have right to own fire arms it is in constitution it is a right that has not yet been taken away by government. We know when government bands gun ownership the crime rate go higher as only criminals poses guns and they know it and the media is not reporting truth in United States it just spits propaganda from left to right.

Militia is needed as is stated in constitution we the people have right to protect our self from enemy foreign and domestic.

But...not many people are interested in them. Poles really don't seem to care much for guns.


Absolutely. Needed in the US, wouldn't make much sense in Poland.

Because they have been largely shielded from them. Whereas here guns are intertwined in our history and culture, society, in our very Constitution.

Btw, the PA Constitution takes protecting private gun ownership even a step further than our national one. The PA Con states the one's right to own arms "shall not be [so much as] questioned". Period. I always throw this in the face of the grabbers, reminding them that their even questioning our right to keep guns is a violation of my constitutional rights. Lol. They hate this. ;)

Might genetics have a cause on the troubles caused by guns? After all genetics undoubtedly affects education, income, and IQ to a certain extent...

Prison statistics:

The racial composition of the US prison and jail population as of 2009 was 31.44% White American (non-Hispanic), 20.29% Hispanic, 42.21% African American (non-Hispanic), and 6.06% Other (American Indian, Alaska Native, Asian American, Native Hawaiian, Pacific Islander American, and Multiracial American).

Population statistics:

The racial composition of the US population as of 2009 was 80.79% White American (65.60% non-Hispanic and 15.19% Hispanic), 10.84% African American (12.22% non-Hispanic and 0.62% Hispanic), 4.45% Asian American.

Now show us the same stats for Russia. Genetics has less of a role than society.

I'm still under the impression that Poland should take the Swiss approach.

Yep. Gotta love all that 'rich diversity'...

From 'The Making of Modern Britain' by Andrew Marr. On Edwardian Britain:

Crime was, by today's standards, remarkably low. Yet anyone could walk into one of numerous shops and buy a revolver. (...) Edwardian Britain was an armoured country, even after the Pistols Act of 1903 thoughtfully banned sales of handguns to people under eighteen or 'drunken or insane'.


statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000
#1 District of Columbia: 31.2
#2 Alaska: 20

some of the comments:
Odd how Washington DC, with it's unconstitutional handgun ban, leads the nation.
Alaska near top, mostly b/c of suicides in Native Americans.

Note the difference between DC and Alaska.


The Germans wanted to create a purely German zone at the eastern border of the General Government. They started with cleansing Zamojszczyzna, which resulted in quick organising of local armed self-defence, opposing the expulsions and retaliating on already settled (armed) Germans. The scale of resistance caused the action to be stopped. It's a huge chapter in the history of the Polish underground.

And: Partyzancka Republika Pińczowska, in 1944 spanned over 100 sq km free from occupying forces.
pinczow.pl/page.php?id=20&s=1


People with guns don't get shot in the back of the head. They got to be tied up first. The problem with resistance against the Soviets was that the Red Army was to be considered an ally. Much of the armed Polish underground gave up weapons and were sent far East. After the 'Western Treason' it was a bit late to recover the strength. Still, the armed opposition lasted for years on, and was the main reason that Poland retained land ownership and freedom of religion. If the Soviets had tried to take land from peasants, there would've been no 'communism' in Poland, most probably.


You don't care much for what you can't really have. Polish gun laws are ridiculous. From what I remember, you can eventually get a permission for a handgun to protect your house, yet, by the law, it has to be locked safely at all times, unloaded. The police, before shooting at the criminal, have to shout a shooting warning (Policja, uwaga, strzelam!) three times, then shoot in the air, then aim at the legs.

About the interest in guns you'd have to live for a stretch in the already mentioned Zamojszczyzna. And make good friends there too. My grandpa had a cavalry carbine, I was playing with it as a kid, and once my uncle took me in the woods for some real shooting. My cousin exchanged it later for a Parabellum and a small sack of ammo, and then sold it for a bottle of vodka. Or two, could be... The price should suggest you the availability of firearms, not the level of interest. If an old barn caught fire, the fire brigade did not approach for fear of stashed ammo and grenades, they only protected the neighbouring buildings.

Zamojszczyzna was exceptionally littered with guns, must be said, but Poles are not gun-shy, just disarmed. Except those who read Wyborcza to lunch.

A handgun to protect your house is almost unheard of.

Regarding the Police, they can shoot when they feel threatened.

That's why I said 'eventually'.


Must've changed lately, then.

I don't think that US founding fathers meant to give us a constitutional right to run around with guns. I believe the second amendment, very poorly phrased, was meant to refer to militia only:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Even if, the world didn't start with the Founding Fathers. Arms possession has been a natural right of citizens since the dawn of time. Seems it was in the Tzarist Russia when the first limitations took place. Like, after the 1863 Uprising firearms were confiscated in Poland, for the first time ever.

Don't believe her false argument, Nott...


Sure they did. That's exactly what they meant. Back then everyone owned guns, it was common, no biggie.


Tired and poorly contrived argument by the gun-fearing folks.


And keep in mind that a "militia" back then consisted of your average farmer who could be rounded up to fight when needed. These militias were not very organized so were really just common folks who owned guns. Without them owning guns privately there would be no militia.

I don't, really, just being polite.

As you say: 'back then everyone owned guns, it was common', so that's how it is to be interpreted, in the historical context. They just confirmed the natural law, in case somebody in the unimaginable future tried to disarm people.

I have an air-gun... :)

Good thing you are not sitting on supreme court or we all be domed.
If you do not have gun and the criminal knows it you are more likely to become victim.

you're all in this thread so zacietrzewieni that i wouldn't give any of you a gun... soon enough the forum would be empty....lol ;)

Funny how they had the foresight to head off future gun-grabbing. See, even they knew that the first thing tyrants do is seize the weapons of the people so they are rendered defenseless. How come those old guys in powdered wigs and funny hats so long ago could see this but Libs today can't?


So true. x2

Nope. Just, the truth would prevail :)


Right, lol. Gun-toting freaks are not necessarily out of their minds :)

But, the only problem is....in Poland, that right is not enshrined in the constitution :(

It is not a problem in Poland because criminality is much lower than in the USA.

The right to own knives is neither.

But, if it's not enshrined as a right, it only takes simple legislation to make it illegal, which is the case here.

No legislation against kitchen knives BTW.

It is not illegal, either. Most people simply don't see the need to own guns.

It's illegal. If I were to place my hi-power into the trunk of my car and cross the border and get stopped, I would be thrown in jail.

First check it out and then make statements.

Didn't someone here mention a movement to only permit blunt nose kitchen knives? Maybe this was in UK?


Me too. I use it to get the darn squirrels off the bird feeder. I give it one or two pumps so it only stings them without hurting them. But they still come back. >:

Sure they didn't. Read up about it. Especially the changes in wording that ammendment went through.

Oh I have. Extensively.


That they felt the need to single out guns and include them as an amendment tells us how important they felt guns were. No other object is so mentioned in our Bill of Rights.

They didn't feel the need to included a passage about artificial legs for turtles, now did they? :s

Despite the constitution saying nothing about it. But you're right, of course, about the ease of banning guns in Poland. And it is true, that few people really need them now. Like, say, chainsaws. Or strong acids. Or piano strings. Or baseball bats (illegal, actually). Or padlocks on a chain. Funny thing, how many completely legal items can become deadly weapons in hands with purpose. And then you can call 999. If you can.


You know, I was a fan of American films, as many Poles in those times. And I watched some US stupid horrors too, sweet blondie running from a werewolf, and, God is great, there's a car left in the woods, and she gets into it, and turns the... fkn hell!! there's no key!!!

Now that's a shocker, for an American. In Poland, it's 'stupid blondie'. What does it say about the crime level, this indirect information?

I lived in a relatively quiet place. One autumn the postman didn't show up, they found him half a year later, after the spring thaw washed out a thin layer of dirt. You'd think that the local newspaper would mention it, a short note at least. It didn't.