Genealogy / Is your line of the Polish family noble? [74]

There's nothing more frustrating than reading on PF 'there was no Poland'. There was Poland. There were Polish people. Yes, the country was split, yes, the country was governed by others but to hear on here lame explanation 'there was no Poland'?! Which woodwork have you come out of?!

As for generous bunch of replies


Im withdrawing the Polish Jew statement.
Most of them were Russian/German/Galician Jews because Poland actually didn't exist.

No idea why so many 'Polish' Americans think they've got Polish roots or belong to Polish nobility.


no? ah, yes, they come from Polish nobility; or are German Russians and anything else but Polish.


I put it in the context of Jewish community but of course the same goes for Poles, Russians, Irish, Germans - whoever was leaving Europe after Napoleonic wars,

Poles had other reasons to emigrate before anyway (partitions) - that's why States got Kosciuszko and Pulaski; most of Polish 'intellectuals' -writers, scientists etc, and nobility emigrated mostly to France and Germany after 1848.


I seriously recommend reading Polish history books. I repeat again, most of the Jews, since mid 18th century had to be named. Surname adoption happened in all parts of partitioned Poland.


Yes, they wouldn't, obviously. But then if you have Vetala or whoever making a claim that her Jewish family is noble - I don't dispute it. I don't think that anyone was checking every generation if they stayed Christian or not, or if they married into Christian families or not.

Another thing, have a look at the Warsaw digital library, looks for books dating back to 19th century. According to them surnames reflecting weekdays, months etc (so Poniedzialkowski, Czerwinski, Lipinski, Sierpinski etc) are new names which were given do Jewish converts back in the 16th century.

plk123 As it happens all over the world, some of the Jewish emigration might have not admitted they were Jews. They were persecuted one way or another in Europe over the years, and for the same reason they might have assumed/converted to RC after arriving wherever they were arriving.

The rest is not worth replying.
For those who assume they are noble because of surnames, quick check here:
wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=71636&dirids=1 (it's a list of Polish noblemen as of 1887)and another one, the same year, genealogy of Polish aristocracy

wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=70288&dirids=1

and as for plk123 and z_darius - you are welcome to use this library to read about Jewish population in Poland and in other countries but Poland between 1772 and 1918

News / Polish PM Tusk- dictator or not? What Poles think? [421]

I don't think he is.
He's got a really hard time trying to sort out the last few years' mess.

I think he's too weak.

Genealogy / Is your line of the Polish family noble? [74]


You are really boring. I didnt apply any percentage at any point. And yes, you are correct - they weren't. But read and understand. And check the numbers of Jews who a/ emigrated, b/changed their names in 18th century under the German rule.

Polish history 1-2-1


And you still refer to Ruthenians? Wonder why... family roots?


beton; that's all i can say


correct and incorrect. Check wit Slovaks first.
And their common name was Rus. Plus variations depending on region.


yeah; and not only Jews for that matter.


My claim is that:
yes; they did; Jews didn't carry surnames until partitions - fact; read about it; if I am a moron you should be able to find out the info in a split second

the rest of your sentence is equally rubbish

Genealogy / Is your line of the Polish family noble? [74]

Sokrates
lol


Really? Given that most of Jews in Wielkopolska were given marching orders before 19th century and chose emigrating to the sacred US of A, I think you are right. It was minority. Of those who stayed/were allowed to stay and took on German surnames.


ah, 'Ruthenian'. I've noticed American like to refer to 'Ruthenian' on this forum. Ancient history - move on! Ruthenia is a Latin word for Russia so please, do not read it as some 'noble died long time ago tribe'.

If you are 'Ruthenian' you lived in a certain geographic area. Get over this.


c - by whom? and why?
D - no idea; I know my great visited (I stress - VISITED) USA
E - I dare to say you are unable to conceive a single one


where did I apply, at any point, to all of the emigration?

You are full of shite, pardon my language

Genealogy / Is your line of the Polish family noble? [74]

you are right there - it was my assumption based on the numbers

BUT, i didn't go as far as you putting it in percentage and assuming further away

what I assumed was that IF your predecessors emigrated from Poland (or any other region that used to be Poland) within a certain time frame there is a huge possibility that your roots are Jewish or poor.

And that's what I stand for.

Genealogy / Is your line of the Polish family noble? [74]

twister

I gave figures of Jewish population since late 18th in my town (increase from 0 to X), not saying anything about Polish or German population
it's not my assumption - it's yours

Genealogy / Is your line of the Polish family noble? [74]



The same conditions were applied in 18th century Prussia. Poor Jews were being gotten rid off while the rich ones were left in Prussia whit an 'upped' status.

Great you quote a very interesting article, but please read it to the end.
Not 'everyone' and not 'every'. As the article states, misinterpretation on part of Jews. They assumed they'll become noble if they become Christian.


then start reading some of th books and other documents here:
wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra


my region was the initial one; I started to check others - link above;
all Poles - where? in America?


You said 'facts and figures' so please do refer to them first before you start assuming I'm talking BS.
And yes, based on what I saw and read, I'd dare to say that most of Polonia (old Polonia) is of Jewish descent.

the WBC holds a huge number of books, documents, reports, population lists etc etc which date back to 16th century. And cover pretty big part of Poland, including Silesia in some cases.

Genealogy / Is your line of the Polish family noble? [74]


very - believe me

I discovered an online library not long ago and started to go through some of the books they stored online...I found that my region/town/surrounding area didn't have any Jewish population until late 18th century.

But, doing a school project about German occupation in my town, I found out that there was a strong population of Jews prior to the war. Not huge, but pretty strong. For example, if I can remember numbers correctly - 177-something (year) - 0 Jews, 179-something - 56, 18-something - over 100, and it grew.

Other towns and cities noticed similar increase...from null to hundreds - and Im talking late 18/beg of 19th century. Some of this is documented which makes interesting study.

Can't say much about south Poland, Galicja etc; but for the north Poland there are plenty of docs.

Genealogy / Is your line of the Polish family noble? [74]

I've noticed that you are doing a lot re: genealogy here
but I would like to point out few things that most of Polish Americans should be aware of:

1. if your family has Polish roots/other European (Russian, German) you can easily assume that your European roots are Jewish
2. if so, you'd have nothing to do with Polish 'nobility'
3. if your predecessors emigrated to USA between mid 19th and early 20th century they did so because a/ they were Jewish, b/they were poor

4. if your surname is the same as a place in Poland, it's not because you come form a 'noble' family; it is because a/ poor people usually assumed names of their landowners or places they were born; b/because Germans 'named' them during the germanisation process (since mid 18th century in west/north west Poland); this naming was based on a/ place you were born, b/ occupation

Worth noting is that Jewish population in Poland didn't use any surnames until 18th and 19th century. But once Poland was divided between Russia, Germany and Austria there was a requirement for all, and most of all Jewish population, to have surnames.

So, if your name is Czajka or another, don't assume you come from Polish nobility. The surname, in most cases, was taken on because of the law introduced by those who ruled Poland since 1772.

News / Polish PM Tusk- dictator or not? What Poles think? [421]


yep, I agree

like backward so called Poles in America
Why the heck some of them assume they have a right to say anything about Poland is beyond me!

Genealogy / Old Polish Prayer Book-Chlib Duszi [14]


orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=25795.0


theologyincolor.com/hymns/pdf/pisennik_bibliography.pdf - -page 3 and 4

Carpatho-Rusyn prayerbook

Look also for info on Starokatolicki Kosciol Morawitow. They identified themselves in 1906. Until then they were part of RC church in Poland. However, they patron was and is Our Lady of Perpetual Help and they've also had churches in south east part of Poland and Russia/Ukraine.

Maybe ther's a connection/explanation.

Study / 90% of Poles have university degree? [57]

for once you might be correct

not sure about redneck tho

Genealogy / Poland Genealogy Resources [130]

true, and one more thing worth adding - the digital library is a project undertaken across Poland so if put Biblioteka Cyfrowa in google/whatever search engine , you'll come across digital libraries from other parts of Poland.

Couldnt find one directory for all of them.

Genealogy / Poland Genealogy Resources [130]

wbc.poznan.pl/dlibra

It's a digital library of various books, documents and other resources (also some newspapers)
From nobility in Poland to address books and phone books well before 1939; names of villages and their owners etc etc

Most of the documents are in Polish, some Latin. It covers the area of Wielkopolska, but also partially Pomorze and other regions if it was within the administration of Poznan Principality or Gniezno archdiocese.

another one
archiwum.plock.com/index_g.php

This is a link to a new project from National Archive in Plock. They are currently working on it but some of the documents, like birth/death/marriage certificates up to 1907 are online.

Study / 90% of Poles have university degree? [57]

When Poland became a 'free country' yet again in the 90. suddenly there was a huge increase in a number of schools - private schools - where you were able to do your BA/MA.

I've known number of people who were telling me 'I have two degrees' to which I always replied - where from? From Pcimie Dolne?'

Pcimie Dolne is a derogatory term - it means that something coming from there can't be of any value.

But that was the case back in the 90 - huge number of semi-unis/schools that you coughed up the dosh and you were studying to get your BA and MA. Most of these people wouldn't make it through exams to get to a normal, old established unis. Most of these schools didn't have good lecturers because those who valued themselves wouldn't set a foot through the door.

It's changed later - money talks. Few schools since then closed the door. Number of reasons, from various frauds to not having proper curriculum etc.

I would think that the situation is more balanced now, but in the 90 it was wild wild west and yes, I wouldnt be surprised if the number was really high.

Genealogy / Suwalki/Supliski [8]

There are two:

1. Established in 1908
Parafia =Parish) rzymsko-katolicka p.w. Matki Boskiej Czestochowskiej
Adres: Bacejły 32, 16-411 Szypliszki
Telefon: (87) 568-11-27

2. Established in 1794
Parafia rzymsko-katolicka p.w. Ducha Świętego
Adres: Kaletnik 70, 16-411 Szypliszki
Telefon: (87) 564-79-28

you can do a partial check here online:

geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php

click 'podlaskie' (current name of the district where Szypliszki are)
not all the records are online so not sure if you find anything. Gave you adresses to Szypliszki parishes in another topic

Classifieds / Jute bags in Poland - lucrative business? [16]

It's like selling the ice to the Eskimo :)
These type of bags have been around in Poland for ages (it's the 'bad west' who introduced us to these awful plastic bags!)
Topping it up with the fact that in many respects Poland has been more organic than the 'West', I believe you won't find it very lucrative business (importing).

It doesn't mean there's no space for more but you'd have to make a really good research

This is a website dedicated to 'PRL hits' - things we miss the most from the 'red era' - spodlady.com/torby

Life / Any good Polish films to watch? [112]

a bit off topic but

I like Polish films, but with age I find them too depressing/intellectual/contemplative or plain stupid (comedies)
Is it me? or some kind of tendency?
I liked Sztuczki (Tricks)
But something-I-can't-remember-the-title-but-so-called-gangster-comedy nearly killed me with boredom (and stupidity)

I'd say - go back to to school and start making films like Vabank
(worth watching - Polish version of The Sting I think)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]

palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=15943


inventionofthejewishpeople.com/2010/04/haaretz-on-shlomo-sand-and-what-it-means-to-be-jewish/#more-597


(Shlomo Sand)

inventionofthejewishpeople.com/2009/11/shlomo-sand-responds-to-simon-schamas-review-in-the-financial-times/

Life / Famous Polish people (that we have actually heard of) [231]


didnt check those few pages before I answered and you talk to me FB??

I'll have a look if dont have to join the group/whatever
but good luck with the project

Life / Any good Polish films to watch? [112]

Polish cinema annoys me; I find the films or being too intellectual/depressing, or too stupid to enjoy

I found one film I enjoyed. Actually two (over the last two years).
The first one was very real and very true without being exaggerated - just the essence of what's really going on in families under the stress - called Plac Zbawiciela (Savour's Square). Because of the subject i think it's a universal film, and not something typically Polish. I'd rather say that these emotions and behaviour were introduced to Poles post 89'.

The version I watched had really good English subtitles
I was amazed! Being usually very critical of the Polish cinema ( after 95'), I'd really recommend to watch it.
stopklatka.pl/film/film.asp?fi=21312

The other one is very different. It is by a Polish director unknown to me, but reminding me of Kazimierz Kutz and his films about Silesia.

The film's called #Sztuczki' (Tricks) and has a really great soundtrack by Tomasz Gąssowski. Again, extremely limited number of actors, slow pace but the story sucks you in.

sztuczki-film.pl

Life / Famous Polish people (that we have actually heard of) [231]

Pola Negri
Stephanie Powell (if anybody knows her)
the guy who plays Stephan in the Vampires Diaries (he's reaaaly sweet!)
plenty of others connected to the film industry - and the beginning of film industry in the USA
current ones - ALan Stark I think is his current name in the USA...two times winner for costume design -Schindler's List being one of them? cant remember the second one

as for you, I suggest to start with Stella Walsh, my uni friend's great aunt, disqualified during some athlete thingy in Poland and being taken for a man on many occasions

britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/634342/Stanislawa-Walasiewicz

Food / Your all time favourite Polish Dishes! [108]

LENIWCE!

Im a pierogi person, and love 'pierogi ruskie', but pierogi leniwe (cottage/farmers cheese kind of based) are all time favourite

Sweet or sour
sweet - topping with buttery and sweetened breadcrumbs
sour - with sour cream and sugar

and potatoes pancakes - love them too

pretty good recipe for leniwe

easteuropeanfood.about.com/od/noodlesdumplings/r/lazypierogi.htm

History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]


yeah...
you won't know it but back in the 80s there was a very dry joke going that Poland is the ***** of others

so yeah, we lie where we lie

History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]


still correct

would add one thing - culture
when Poland was crying because of the partitions, England was ahead with its industrial revolution
Poland didnt have much influence on Western or Eastern (Russian/South Europe) culture

so yeah - we are central - always in between and undecided

History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1080]


amen to that

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


google :)

israelpost.co.il/Mall.nsf/8E74C813D2940A87C225765300460B46/$file/poland_l.gif

original painting by Juliusz Kossak: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berek_Joselewicz

Polonia / Polish satellite TV abroad [40]

That is correct. Called my friends and they have Polsat package, dish size 80cm and make payments for it over the internet. They are in London.

I know before they've had different provider (Cyfra?) but since then they've switched to Polsat. The first time around somebody from Poland brought them the decoder from Poland and it was being paid in Poland (before 2004).

I think there's a possibility to buy a dish here.

In the UK the three tv sat offered are Cyfra+, Polsat and something called 'n'. I think they've also had this 'n' tv at some point but weren't happy with it.

ahm and one more thing - I think the 80cm is the standard size dish as SKY dish (at least the ones I see) are the same size as their one.

Genealogy / THE MEANING AND RESEARCH OF MY POLISH LAST NAME, SURNAME? [4500]

Could also derived from LASKOWY, as in orzech laskowy (hazelnut).

Genealogy / THE MEANING AND RESEARCH OF MY POLISH LAST NAME, SURNAME? [4500]

Polonius not here

wniary - it's a brand name in Poland (currently)
probably comes from 'wino' - wine
but there used to be a 'fort' called 'winiary'

didn't look for details

Piekarczyk - baker's apprentice - someone who learns the jobs - bakery
other fromns: Piekarski. Piekarz (Baker)

Karczewski -
verb is 'karczowac' - no idea about exact English word but those guys who cut out the forrest (mostly in Canada now - lumberjacks??)
anyway - karczowac means cutting trees in the forrest