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Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians?


celinski 31 | 1,258
9 Feb 2008  #121
Sixty years, one hundred years, or one thousand years?

This aggreement was made in 1945. They are now getting around to it.

was never Polish

Yes, it was Poland. Not the first time I might add.
TRAISKIRCHEN - | 23
9 Feb 2008  #122
They were never happy with Poles being there

Were Poles happy with the Germans being in Poland?
celinski 31 | 1,258
9 Feb 2008  #123
never wanted to occupy and destroy Poland.

No instead they just killed them.

GENOCIDE COMMITTED BY UKRAINIAN NATIONALISTS
ON THE POLISH POPULATION OF VOLHYNIA
DURING WORLD WAR II (1939-1945)

www-kresy.pl/wolyn/english.htm
miranda
9 Feb 2008  #124
Lets see if you were married to a Polish you had to kill your spouse and offspring

that true, but to claim that half Ukrainians are Polish is a bit far fetched.

Poland wants friendship due to blood ties also.

perhaps you are right, but as far as I am concerned the present politics has a lot to do with Poland becoming an ally to Ukraine vs Russian dominance. It is good for both of the countries.
Filios1 8 | 1,336
9 Feb 2008  #125
Traiskirchen,

You are obviously blind to some history. Poles were always free, never occupied, until they were stabbed in the back by the 3 powers of Austria-Hungary, Russia and Germany. They fought bitterly during this time to free themselves of these chains.

Ukrainians on the other hand, were never independent. They didn't even exist as a nation until recently. When I think of Ukrainian, I think of Russians, or Poles, not a seperate nation in themselves. The barbaric Kossaks ruined it for the rest of the population by revolting, when indeed, the country could have flourished with a strong Polish hand in the 17th century. Who knows? Perhaps this land could be a lot richer today..
celinski 31 | 1,258
9 Feb 2008  #126
Yes Miranda, we were both stuck in the middle and victims.

It is good for both of the countries.

youtube.com/watch?v=Qw-jynhmA1A
TRAISKIRCHEN - | 23
9 Feb 2008  #127
No instead they just killed them.

GENOCIDE COMMITTED BY UKRAINIAN NATIONALISTS
ON THE POLISH POPULATION OF VOLHYNIA
DURING WORLD WAR II (1939-1945)

Celinski,

From your posts, one may conclude that you are hugely penetrated by Russian propaganda and present only the facts, which were often "created" by NKVD or anecdotal evidences.
miranda
9 Feb 2008  #128
They didn't even exist as a nation until recently. When I think of Ukrainian, I think of Russians, or Poles, not a seperate nation in themselves.

just because they didn't exist it does itmake them less of the nation. Poland was under the occupation of USSR during the communism so all Poles must be Russians according to your logic. Yet, Poles never gave their quest for freedom, neither did Ukrainians.
Filios1 8 | 1,336
9 Feb 2008  #129
From your posts, one may conclude that you are hugely penetrated by Russian propaganda and present only the facts, which were often "created" by NKVD or anecdotal evidences.

No, you are wrong there my friend. YOU are the one penetrated by propaganda of the West, which was ultra-pacifist in nature and shied away from facts. They were afraid of Russia, so they kept the facts away and closed the books so to speak. These genocides did happen! Ukrainians saw the opportunity, and showing their true barbaric and savage spirit, began to attack their Polish neigbours, in villages, towns all over Poland and "Ukraine."
celinski 31 | 1,258
9 Feb 2008  #130
Russian propaganda

Say what! Try Roman Catholic, Polish sent to Siberia to die by Stalin. But we must not forget what happened to the ones not on trains. SS Ukraine was not perfect.
Filios1 8 | 1,336
9 Feb 2008  #131
Please, ignore this man, celinski. He is a pro-Western creep who was not taught true facts at school.
miranda
9 Feb 2008  #132
These genocides did happen! Ukrainians saw the opportunity, and showing their true barbaric and savage spirit, began to attack their Polish neigbours, in villages, towns all over Poland and "Ukraine."

so what? are you gonna live in the past, pondering in Greece how good of the Pole you are? Good luck, but if past history is the only link to your Polishness (including hatered to Ukrainins, you are no better then the so called "moderator").

SS Ukraine was not perfect.

no, it wasn't but neither was a group of Polish communist who only served USSR's interests in Poland and their own. It is worse to be destroyed by their own people than by another nationality.
celinski 31 | 1,258
9 Feb 2008  #133
Polish communist

Aggreed, most of Polands military were exiled or killed when communist Poland came into play.

including hatered to Ukrainins, you are no better then the so called "moderator").

I do not see this as hatered, maybe it is time for Ukraine to say they are sorry, it was wrong like they said they would.
TRAISKIRCHEN - | 23
9 Feb 2008  #134
But we must not forget what happened to the ones not on trains

You are right. We must not forget any unjustnesses and genocides which happened in the past, but when you see from your posts that you are only ‘fixed” on Ukrainians, you may wonder that there must be some personal gain you are pursuing.
miranda
9 Feb 2008  #135
I do not see this as hatered, maybe it is time for Ukraine to say they are sorry, it was wrong like they said they would.

this is up to the government. If it is that important which I think it is, then the government should make some kind of amendments. I personally like to live in the present when it comes to those relationships. I have a lot of Polish friends and our relationship is not based on the history, but on what we have shared as people, may it be Polish or Ukrainian.
Filios1 8 | 1,336
9 Feb 2008  #136
so what? are you gonna live in the past, pondering in Greece how good of the Pole you are? Good luck, but if past history is the only link to your Polishness (including hatered to Ukrainins, you are no better then the so called "moderator").

I'd like you to know that my family wasn't exactly "welcomed' with open arms after the end of the war. Many of the were true Poles, who didn't accept the new communist regime. For that reason, only, am I in Greece now as a young man. I take it to heart when someone accuses me of being un-patriotic.

The first step in moving on is to always have in mind the past history of our brothers and sisters who perished for our freedom today, and who were so brutally murdered by Nazi and Communist slime. How would my forefathers respect me if I simply forgot what had happened to them? No, never. For God, and for the motherland, I shall never forget these atrocities for the life of me.

I am not driven by hatred. I am driven by facts. Fact! Ukrainians did this to us in our time of need! I see no reason to discuss earlier "provocatives" as a reason for this. Simply, it was not provoked, it was lust of blood.
celinski 31 | 1,258
9 Feb 2008  #137
like to live in the present when it comes to those relationships

Then Ukraine would not be asking for respect from 1932-33. By the way my family was there for this also. Why would this time period mean more than 1939-45?
miranda
9 Feb 2008  #138
I'd like you to know that my family wasn't exactly "welcomed' with open arms after the end of the war.

nor was mine

Many of the were true Poles, who didn't accept the new communist regime.

my father was taken on number of occassion to the police station and was harrased so would comply and become one of them. He never did.

I take it to heart when someone accuses me of being un-patriotic.

I never did. But forcing your way on others as to what it means to be a patriot or not is rude. There are as many patriots as there are people.

The first step in moving on is to always have in mind the past history of our brothers and sisters who perished for our freedom today, and who were so brutally murdered by Nazi and Communist slime.

fair enough, it should not be forgotten, but living in the present is more valuable and it doesn;t mean that you have.

How would my forefathers respect me if I simply forgot what had happened to them? No, never. For God, and for the motherland, I shall never forget these atrocities for the life of me.

kepp living in the past and let me know how it works for you.

I am not driven by hatred.

no, calling Ukrainin barbarians is not hatered.

Ukrainians did this to us in our time of need!

it went both ways , Polish were not angels either.

lust of blood.

most people will have it given the circumstances.

Maybe it is time that you give up your Victim attitude and move on, but than again, it is only a suggestion.
celinski 31 | 1,258
9 Feb 2008  #139
Ukrainin barbarians is not hatered.

I guess when they did this they were not thinking of being seen for there actions. They were the worst war crimes of the times yet they were given a free ride and never stood trial.

There are as many patriots as there are people.

Yes you could say as many victims as there are guilty of killings. My family was in Siberia, this does not exsuse what took place.

quote=miranda] Victim attitude and move on, but than again, it is only a suggestion[/quote]
I think we are waiting for Ukraine to say sorry.

Polish were not angels either.

Relocating vs. brutal murder, you judge?
Filios1 8 | 1,336
9 Feb 2008  #140
I never did. But forcing your way on others as to what it means to be a patriot or not is rude. There are as many patriots as there are people.

How was I forcing anything? Dearest Miranda, if you like to be blind, let it be so. I was trying to state my opinion. If it didn't do anything, I shall move on.

fair enough, it should not be forgotten, but living in the present is more valuable and it doesn;t mean that you have.

kepp living in the past and let me know how it works for you.

How so? Everything today is driven by history. It works fine, thank you. How can you sleep at night by trying to forget what happened in history? To your forefathers? To YOUR blood? Someone would have to give me a solid hit to the head with a sledgehammer for me to forget these struggles! I hope you were not serious with your sarcasm, for everyone needs comfort in history. If we live only for today, and do not remember what happened yesterday, what will happen tomorrow?

no, calling Ukrainin barbarians is not hatered.

Again, with your sarcasm. I was of course not calling all these people on the plains Barbarians. The brutes that took part in the murder of thousands of Polish, you would not call barbarians or savages? Please, go on then, and do not remember the victims.

it went both ways , Polish were not angels either.

No, they were not. And that is clear to say. However, Polish never stabbed a country in the back in their time of need! They were not cowards who looked for split second barbarian instincts to drive them.

most people will have it given the circumstances.

Maybe it is time that you give up your Victim attitude and move on, but than again, it is only a suggestion.

I never thought of myself as a victim. You are a victim, as much as I am. All of our Polish brothers and sisters are victims. You should know that, and start showing respect for the ones who have gone to be with God.
Filios1 8 | 1,336
9 Feb 2008  #142
No, Russian. These things were well known before you came on here to mention them
TRAISKIRCHEN - | 23
9 Feb 2008  #143
They were the worst war crimes of the times

Celinski,
Have you heard about Auschwitz or Katyn?
Again, what personal gain you are pursuing being so fixed on the historical conflicts between Poles and Ukrainians?
Do not give us the sh...t about justice. What monetary compensation would make you happy?
celinski 31 | 1,258
9 Feb 2008  #144
it should not be forgotten, but living in the present is more valuable and it doesn;t mean that you have.

This is the main point"it should not be forgotten". We shall have a parade stopped if it glorify's members that are not held accountable. I think this was very hurtful. When Ukraine steps up and holds accountable the ones that did this the whole group will not be tainted, until then it is simply wrong.
southern 75 | 7,097
9 Feb 2008  #145
Anything wrong with Ukraine?
celinski 31 | 1,258
9 Feb 2008  #146
Nope.

What monetary compensation would make you happy?

I think I'll just move back to my families estate, thanks. Start the coffee.
TRAISKIRCHEN - | 23
9 Feb 2008  #147
My family was in Siberia

It's unbelievable! This lady's family was sent to Siberia and you do not hear a word from her about a genocide done by Russians. Instead she is fixed on Ukrainians who were the victims themselves for so many centuries and didn't even have their own country until recently.
NormalRussian - | 16
9 Feb 2008  #148
I think I'll just move back to my families estate, thanks. Start the coffee.

write letter to G BUSH. SO your idea is, Poland give back houses for Germans and Ukrainaisn for Poles heheheh Be careful because Poles in Poland can kill you for that kind of ideas.

heheheh Americans
southern 75 | 7,097
9 Feb 2008  #149
Instead she is fixed on Ukrainians who were the victims themselves for so many centuries and didn't even have their own country until recently.

Tones down.A dirty story does not need to come to light again since both parts have agreed so.
miranda
9 Feb 2008  #150
Celinski,
my granfather was sent to Syberia too.

Filios, if I lived in teh past I would have to spit on every Pole I pass by, but I chose not to. I am not sarcastic, I am rational and practical. I like peace and I am happy that both Poland and Ukraine are independant to a degree (this is not beng sarcastic, but realistic).

Again, with your sarcasm. I was of course not calling all these people on the plains Barbarians. The brutes that took part in the murder of thousands of Polish, you would not call barbarians or savages? Please, go on then, and do not remember the victims.

Well, you know that I am Ukrainian and you hurt my feelings by referring to the whole nations as abrbarians, blood thirsty monsters.

Please, go on then, and do not remember the victims.

I remeber the victims but again, here I am more concerned about the 6 million Ukrainians who were starved to death by Stalin.

However, Polish never stabbed a country in the back in their time of need!

what are you referring to?

You are a victim

I am not. My parents were but I grew up in the different circumstances and I am not going to dwell on what happened in the past. I respect what my parents went through but it is simply not my experiance.

You should know that, and start showing respect for the ones who have gone to be with God.

and you should stop telling people how they show respect. I am not a nationalist and I am looking into the future.


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