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Jarosław Kaczyński sharing his words with Russians!


Mr Grunwald 25 | 1,731
9 May 2010 #1
Seems to me that Jarosław Kaczyński tries the same as the president of Russia did. I hope it will reach common Russians



In general he said that his brother were meant to stand in Moscow watching the parade, also he said that he knew that his brother would think of the many soldiers, Russian soldiers who fought the German third Reich, but he would also remember about Katyń. The crime which happened 70 years ago divided our nations apart, I know that there are millions of victims resulting in the Stalinist terror, Russians and other representatives of other nations of the former Soviet Union. That Stalin-ism is our common problem today, our relationship can only come to light if it has it's ground on the truth. Even then when it hurts the most, Poles remember the bullets and the strikes of the criminals of NKVD. But they also remember the help which many Russians gave Poles in their most needful time. When themselves didn't have much they offered the very little they had. I myself know that my granddad got to know Alexander Piotrovich Bigintie (or something I am not good in writing Russian names) and by that he himself and my grandmother and himself were saved. The many signs of solidarity from common Russians on the day of the great tragedy in Smolensk was noticed by Poles. It was noticed and we are grateful, we thank you! For every prayer, for every flower, for every candle which was lighted on that day. There are moments in history which can change everything, which can change the course of history. We Poles hope, also those who supported Lech Kaczyński hope that such a change will happen, for us, for our children and for our grandchildren.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 May 2010 #2
Good to see that he has taken that position! A positive to emerge from a tragedy! However, I hope he isn't doing it out of a sense of capturing the populist sentiment. I don't think he did but it's a marked departure from his previous tone. Having said that, it augurs well for the future.
Dougpol2 1 | 76
9 May 2010 #3
Mmmm - not convinced. The only bit I saw, as I can't stand Kaczor's hypocritical habit of being filmed in front of the family heirlooms ( no tasteless "villa" for him! ), talked down to the Russians, which their president clearly did not do when he spoke to the Poles.

Not that I am pro Russian in any way, but if I were - I would point out that Katyn occured 70 years ago - and was a another form of mass murder along the lines of the firebombing of Dresden - both war crimes were perpetuated in the name of "expedience."

I was teaching in Dresden for a while - other than curiosty as to the reasons why, I never ever met hostility. The Germans let sleeping dogs lie in general terms, an admirable quality that some Poles would do well to copy.

RE: Katyn: As the musical genius Mr James Marshall Hendrix used to admonish his fans who were crying out for "Hey Joe" - You're living in the past!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 May 2010 #4
True enough! Still, the efforts to drive forward are a sure improvement but it's rather 'fortuitous' that it happened around the time of Katyń.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508
9 May 2010 #5
I myself know that my granddad got to know Alexander Piotrovich Bigintie

I know the fact (lit. myself) that my granddad, Aleksander Kaczyński, heard from a Russian Александр Петрович бегите run

Question:

What is the christian name of Jarosław's great-grandfather?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 May 2010 #6
I'm impressed well done mr Kaczyński, well done.
plk123 8 | 4,150
9 May 2010 #7
The Germans let sleeping dogs lie in general terms, an admirable quality that some Poles would do well to copy.

completely different circumstance.. i find it extremely in poor taste that you'd even make that comparison.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 May 2010 #8
The Germans let sleeping dogs lie in general terms, an admirable quality that some Poles would do well to copy.

Given that its in Germans interest its not out of noble intent, Germany has enough skeletons in its closet that it has to play carefully lest they drown in them.

Poles as victims denied closure for decades have every right to demand it now, also think before you write, Poles usually do and its an admirable quality you would do well to copy and not come across as a tasteless f*ck.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,458
9 May 2010 #9
Given that its in Germans interest its not out of noble intent, Germany has enough skeletons in its closet that it has to play carefully lest they drown in them.

I don't think Germany has any "skeletons in the closet" left after 70 years of scrutinity.
It's the victors of WWII who got away with their crimes and still have alot of those...

"Closure" is a state of mind and also a political will on all sides, I don't think it can be demanded!
For example the famous and beautiful Fraunkirche in Dresden who got destroyed by the firebombing was re-build solely with donation from Dresdeners and people from around the world. Alot of donations came from the US and GB. The new iron bell was made in GB by the son of one british airman who took once part in the bombings.

THAT is closure in my opinion contrary to "letting sleeping dogs lie"...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresden_Frauenkirche
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 May 2010 #10
I don't think Germany has any "skeletons in the closet" left after 70 years of scrutinity.

Yes you do, you avoid all things Nazi like wildfire, there's a lot of places your politians are simply unable to go due to the WW2 legacy.

"Closure" is a state of mind and also a political will on all sides.

Absolutely but given that we had centrally controlled "education" by the Soviets and the amount of fat lies propagated by the West about Poland now is our time to vent, its going to take a few more years and thats it.

Alot of donations came from the US and GB. The new iron bell was made in GB by the son of one british airman who took part in the bombings.

Yeah but Poland at the time was the land of anti-Semites and idiots charging tanks according to the West, all polish achievements stolen by Western history, polish military effort belittled and history of Europe altered both eastwards and in the West not to include Polands part in the big picture.

Then a cephallophod dickwad like dougpol drops by and lectures Poles instead of doing me a personal favour and dying of groin cancer, who the fock gave him the right to say such things to us of all people?

We have the right and privelige to vent, i dont give a f*ck about Europes annoyance, we'll vent for a few years and it'll allow the nation not to go crazy and maybe correct a bit of the lies manufactured by the West about Poland, then things will calm down and life will go on with a healthier outlook towards the future.

On topic.

Kaczyński' speech is remarkably diplomatic containing elements that will please both sides, doesnt matter if its honest or not (i believe it is) its a sound diplomatic gesture thats bound to pay off.
time means 5 | 1,310
9 May 2010 #11
instead of doing me a personal favour and dying of groin cancer,

Your ever growing cancer list gets a little bigger :-)

places your politians are simply unable to go due to the WW2 legacy.

Really, where like?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 May 2010 #12
Your ever growing cancer list gets a little bigger :-)

Yeah its amazing how many people i would like to wetjob off this miserable plane of existance given that i'm a loving and compassionate Catholic.

Really, where like?

See what happened when several pro-nazi parties won (Saxony was it?) made headlines immidiately, try finding an official line that would restrict ethnicity based issues in Germany like it does in France.

Germany post WW2 became the most liberal country in Europe (next to other suicide states such as UK and Sweden) resulting in among other things Turks breeding like bunnies, women emancipating out of their gender to the point where Germany has no family unit anymore.

Social ramifications are profound, the dying out of the nation one of them.
TheOther 6 | 3,818
9 May 2010 #13
you avoid all things Nazi like wildfire

If one nation doesn't, it's Germany. Ask the French about collaboration, and you will see who is avoiding the topic.
Dougpol2 1 | 76
9 May 2010 #14
completely different circumstance.. i find it extremely in poor taste that you'd even make that comparison.

What? I fail to see the poor taste.

The world at large has known since the eighties about Katyn and Dresden. They are both on a par as to war crimes of horrific magnitude - Germany has anniversaries for their dead too, but after an official apology from the British over Dresden, we are reconciled. But, yet again, the Polish disaster has to be the greater in your eyes, and a Russian apology, wherever and however it might be, will never satisfy.

Why are the two poor comparison? Are you insinuating that it is because Katyn was face to face murder? And murder from the skies on an innocent civilian population isin't as horrific?

Please do tell why my comparison of two of the larger war crimes of the 20th century is facile, or in bad taste? Maybe in bad taste for Germans then? Or are you saying they are the scum of the earth and their plight doesn't equal the Poles because of war which their grandfathers waged? The women and children of Dresden had nothing to say in the matter - I'mnot going to comment on Katyn because that's you Poles to argue - except to say if it had happened to us British we would have got over it, and definitely not had it rammed down our throats all over city billboards.

That is your poor taste. IMO

I am British, and prepared to have ill will against my own (war time) government for ridicule, as to Dresden, or for sinking the General Belgrano in the Falklands conflict, so it's not as if I'm biased as to which act was the most horrific. We now know what happened at Katyn - What do you and the Poles who cant move on want? Photographs?
time means 5 | 1,310
9 May 2010 #15
or for sinking the General Belgrano in the Falklands conflict,

Whatever for? The fcucker wanted sinking.

that i'm a loving and compassionate Catholic.

It does shine through, sometimes :-)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 May 2010 #16
If one nation doesn't, it's Germany.

Let me rephrase, Germany doesnt avoid its past, it avoids any current political and social policies that could be considered even remotely linked to anything authoritarian, as such it does not assert itself where assertion is needed and is far too liberal everywhere else allowing extreme tolerance.

Ask the French about collaboration, and you will see who is avoiding the topic.

French were, are and will be a bunch of smelly fags, even on the personal level so there's no point in even bringing them to the table, their history proves them to be Europe's wh0re.
Dougpol2 1 | 76
9 May 2010 #17
dougpol drops by and lectures Poles instead of doing me a personal favour and dying of groin cancer, who the fock gave him the right to say such things to us of all people?

Tax payer mate - and sympathy for your obsession, not a lecture :)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 May 2010 #18
Sorry buddy the only people i personally confer the right to lecture me or fellow Poles are other Poles or accomplished historians and even then i might cokslap them if they end up spouting nonsence.

Your point of view is dully noted and the note used as toilet paper since its been tastless and stupid a remark on your part.
TheOther 6 | 3,818
9 May 2010 #19
Germany doesnt avoid its past, it avoids any current political and social policies that could be considered even remotely linked to anything authoritarian, as such it does not assert itself where assertion is needed

Yeah, Germany has this issue sometimes, I agree with you.
Dougpol2 1 | 76
9 May 2010 #20
Whatever for? The fcucker wanted sinking.

Just illustrating that I am being fair - but that old rust bucket aka the Battleship General Belgrano was heading away from the 200 mile exclusion zone at the time and was about as dangerous as a lone Derby supporter on a wet Sunday in Nottingham.

It was populism for Maggie - stopped her having to do anything about the unemployed and spending cuts - there's a connection somewhere........

Oh yes, I remember :)) - it suits some Poles to bang on about the past - it is definitely a lot easier than putting money into rebuilding the slum inner cities.
time means 5 | 1,310
9 May 2010 #21
there's a connection somewhere........

Yep wars (won) are good for votes.

General Belgrano was heading away from the 200 mile exclusion zone

Still i'd have sunk it as well :-).
Dougpol2 1 | 76
9 May 2010 #22
Sorry buddy the only people i personally confer the right to lecture me or fellow Poles are other Poles or accomplished historians and even then i might cokslap them if they end up spouting nonsence.

Fair enough - by the way,any Pole that lives in Britain and doesn't vote, or doesn't contribute, doesn't have a view and is living with other Poles and not actually living amongst the British, is of no use to that society.

Same goes the other way - happy to help on some of the things you cant see for yourselves Socrates.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 May 2010 #23
Fair enough - by the way,any Pole that lives in Britain and doesn't vote, or doesn't contribute, doesn't have a view and is living with other Poles and not actually living amongst the British, is of no use to that society.

What use are you to Polish society?

Same goes the other way - happy to help on some of the things you cant see for yourselves Socrates.

Could it be that you can't see some things because you're not Polish just like we can't see some because we are?
Dougpol2 1 | 76
9 May 2010 #24
What use are you to Polish society?

Mixing the gene pool, employer, rescued a street cat - need I go on :)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 May 2010 #25
No offence but whether your genes are beneficial is not up to you, street cat is a definite plus, employer? Far more Poles providing work in UK than Brits providing work in Poland.

Your points about Poland still completely elude me.
plk123 8 | 4,150
10 May 2010 #26
I am British, and prepared to have ill will against my own (war time) government for ridicule, as to Dresden, or for sinking the General Belgrano in the Falklands conflict, so it's not as if I'm biased as to which act was the most horrific. We now know what happened at Katyn - What do you and the Poles who cant move on want? Photographs?

i'm going to quote your whole post so you can reread it and see why that is still in the poor taste as well as you not making much sense.. you contradict yourself and thus seem clueless.. read what you posted one more time, then maybe think about it some.. then maybe you will figure out why you come across as out to lunch.
Dougpol2 1 | 76
10 May 2010 #27
I'll summarise - I was accused of bad taste for comparing the fire-bombing of Dresden with Katyn, two tragedies of war.
I was saying that the Germans have moved on and accepted the official British government apology for that war crime.
The Russians apologised to Poland too. Some of you haven't accepted it, and the population seem to enjoy mass grief via billboards as if it all happened yesterday.

I wouldn't care less but I have to put up with half the family sitting glued to the TV, brainwashed by the latest TVN24 offerings on the war and Katyn, when there are more pressing subjects, such as death and taxes.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
10 May 2010 #28
The problem with you Dougpol is simple, you're not Polish, you dont feel the way Poles do, the second issue is that you're an arrogant little twat who assumes that his outside view is superior and correct and judge the little people.

Thats whats important to us, smarter people than you find it important so its time to accept that you dont find it important because you never cought up with the core of what it is to be a Pole not because you're an objective repository of f*cking godly wisdom.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
10 May 2010 #29
I never ever met hostility. The Germans let sleeping dogs lie in general terms, an admirable quality that some Poles would do well to copy.

Why would they? they sowed the wind and they reaped the whirlwind. you fight by the sword you die by the sword, what comes around goes around etc.

It would be a really perverted and warped mind, that would imagine that somehow it is entitled to do whatever it pleases, but somehow others are not, that instead they should fight with one hand tied behind their back. Seriously get real, they had no sense of grievance, because there was no grievance to be had.
time means 5 | 1,310
10 May 2010 #30
you're an arrogant little twat

More of that fabled loving and compassionate catholic side of yours shining through. Now off you go to the sin box for a few hail Marys and all will be well :-)


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