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Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians?


Rich Mazur 4 | 3,197
20 Jun 2018  #781
Yes, given that 'it's own version is a kleptocratic autocracy

In reference to your "yes" ("Russia is now actively trying to undermine Polish democracy and impose its own version"), what is the evidence of that?

"...but they certainly wish for policies that weaken coherence of Western Europe." Questions:

1. Are they imploying illegal means?
2. Is Western Europe trying to weaken Russia?
3. How do you know what the Russians "wish"?
4. Whose policies?
5. What is "coherence" in your sentence above? Is it about refugees?
6. Why does it always feel like pulling teeth?
Lyzko 22 | 6,538
20 Jun 2018  #782
That's too many questions for me, Rich, let's take each one at a time, shall we?
:-)
cms neuf - | 907
20 Jun 2018  #783
1 yes
2 yes probably but Russias weak economy is caused by its own choices
3 its a guess
4 russia's
5 nothing to do with refugees - more the peaceful alliance that has lasted imperfectly since 1945
5 dont complain - you earn good money for that
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,197
20 Jun 2018  #784
That's too many questions for me, Rich, let's take each one at a time, shall we?

OK. However, I would like to get the answers from mafketis as he is the one who made the claims. Clearly, I don't mind if you want to do the dirty work for him.

Frankly, I don't expect any coming my way soon. What I do know is that many posters here are shallow ("Russia is evil") and throw meaningless phrases and rhetorical questions around to actually end a conversation. My goal is to expose this kind of infantile "hit-and-run" emptiness for what it is. I learned from my previous debates that the best way to deal with such people is to ask questions. Just as is done during trials. Liberals and those acting on emotions do not last past a couple of well phrased questions. All they want is throw some meaningless mud around and shut the opposition up.

1 yes

"yes" is in response to the question: Are they (Russia) imploying illegal means?

Whose laws did they break?
Can you cite a couple of the offenses against Western Europe?
Are there any pending criminal trials against the Russians filed by any Western Europe country?
Were the events in Crimea that resulted in Crimea joining Russia in violation of international laws? If so, was Russia sued?
Crow 137 | 7,595
20 Jun 2018  #785
God knows that we Slavs were and are not much rewarded for stubbornly remain Slavic (ie Sarmatic). But, one of things that we got as gift from God is that we have Russia as world superpower. Hopefully also, finally, normal and sane Russia.
mafketis 20 | 7,176
20 Jun 2018  #786
1. Mostly not
2. Is Western Europe trying to weaken Russia? Weaken the current government.
3. How do you know what the Russians "wish"? Gueswork

Let's look at track records, Russia has never done one single thing that was to Poland's benefit. Why would that start to change now?
Crow 137 | 7,595
20 Jun 2018  #787
A lie. Gruesome lie. Russians saving Serbs. Its great favor to Poland. Enormous.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,197
20 Jun 2018  #788
Let's look at track records, Russia has never done one single thing that was to Poland's benefit.

That was as good a strawman argument and a deflection as they get.

This thread is about the exact opposite: Poles hating Russia and being afraid of Russia, not counting gifts from Russia.

So, Poles are afraid of Russia because "Russia has never done one single thing that was to Poland's benefit". Did I get it right?

Are you afraid of Germany because Germany murdered or killed 6,000,000 Poles and now it's doing its very best to dump surplus Muslims on Poland?
mafketis 20 | 7,176
20 Jun 2018  #789
not counting gifts from Russia.

You count something that doesn't exist.... Russia has never done anything to benefit Poland. That's an objective fact.

Germany murdered or killed 6,000,000 Poles

And Polish people have always been free to talk about, whereas during the PRL they were not free to talk about predations from Russia. The stifling of free expression made the resentment greater than it might have been had they been able to talk about Russian theft of Polish land, or Katyn, or Russian treachery during the Warsaw Uprising etc etc etc
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,197
20 Jun 2018  #790
Russia has never done anything to benefit Poland. That's an objective fact.

So what????
mafketis 20 | 7,176
20 Jun 2018  #791
So given the hundreds of years of history there's no need for Polish people to like or trust any Russian government. That's what.

Poland and Russia are not going to be allies unless Russia drastically changes and starts to become a civilized, civil society (like Germany has done).
kaprys 2 | 1,814
20 Jun 2018  #792
In my opinion, it's not about hate but lack of trust.
mafketis 20 | 7,176
20 Jun 2018  #793
That's a nuance that Rysiek just can't get, all he can do is barge into rooms and shout questions at people. So his limited emotional repertoire gets limited and 'doesn't trust' is conflated with 'hates'.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,197
20 Jun 2018  #794
I am soooo sorry. I just noticed the thread title: Whom do the people in Poland distrust more: Germans or Russians?

My apologies again. You know, one of my frequent senior moments.

As far as "all he can do is barge into rooms and shout questions at people", I don't recall seeing you there. Did I miss you? If so, I apologize.

I am still learning English so I can use some help. Is "hate" in the thread title a nuance, or in-you-face simple case of real hate?
kaprys 2 | 1,814
20 Jun 2018  #795
Oh dear ...
How dare anyone claim it's not hate. After all it's in the thread title! That explains it all.

So how's Mazury, 'Mazurze'?

stick to the topic only please
dolnoslask 5 | 2,423
20 Jun 2018  #796
We probably hate Polish traitors cowards, turncoats and bad mouth-er's, far more than German or Russian patriots.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,197
21 Jun 2018  #797
I agree with you 100 + 10 percent.
Miloslaw 6 | 2,042
21 Jun 2018  #798
@Rich Mazur said;
"Are you afraid of Germany because Germany murdered or killed 6,000,000 Poles"

We are afraid because Russia killed half of those 6,000,000.........
Crow 137 | 7,595
21 Jun 2018  #799
Russians would change for the better. Poles, too.

Actually, you would all come back to yourself. To us, Serbians. I see that as only way. What else you can do? Follow path of western Europe? Remain as you are? Become even worse then western Europe, compete with them in stupidity? No, you must come to yourself.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,197
21 Jun 2018  #800
We are afraid because Russia killed half of those 6,000,000.........

Polish war casualties are beyond any dispute 6 million. Does it mean that the Germans killed the other half, or 3 million? The numbers commonly cited are: Germans - 6 million, Soviets - 150,000. That 150,000 is huge, but not even close to 6 million.

I agree with those who would today trust Germany more than Russia, but not because Germany repented and Russia is "evil". It's because I would trust the American leash Germany is still on. Personally, even the sound of the German language is so totally repulsive that I refused an offer to work there for a couple of months before my immigration to the US in 1967.
Crow 137 | 7,595
21 Jun 2018  #801
Let us calm and be reasonable. We Slavs need each others.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,197
21 Jun 2018  #802
My point exactly. Poland's love affair with EU and, specifically, with Germany is prostitution, pure and simple. They send Poland money and Poland pinches its nose and let them buy out whatever they want. In addition, Poland is permitted to off-load its unemployed. That leaves Poland little wiggle room. Luckily, Poland is still willing to use its middle finger when the subject of refugees, the judiciary, and "democracy" comes up.

The question is how long can Poland endure the pressure. In my opinon, this is where a reasonably good relationship with Russia can be helpful as a counterweight.
mafketis 20 | 7,176
21 Jun 2018  #803
a reasonably good relationship with Russia

Russia doesn't do "reasonably good relationships" it does "Master and servant" relationships and Poland has no ambitions to be a Russian vassal state.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,197
21 Jun 2018  #804
Germany - master
Poland - servant
Auschwitz - a reminder that master used to gas and incinerate servant
Refugees - poison master wants servant to swallow and ask for more
Crow 137 | 7,595
21 Jun 2018  #805
Russia doesn't do "reasonably good relationships" it does "Master and servant"

What you talking about? Hungary have perfect relationship with Russia. It is so because Hungary have reasonable policy. Neither bow to EU (ie Germany), neither to Russia but seek partnership. Russia offering partnership and Germany dictate. Ask Hungarians.
mafketis 20 | 7,176
21 Jun 2018  #807
Germany - master
Poland - servant

No. Germany is not the same country it was in 1939... Russia however is still essentially the same country as the CCCP just with different labels.

Crow, I am glad you are here.

It gets lonely being the only non-Polish Russian suck up here?
Ziemowit 12 | 3,485
21 Jun 2018  #808
refused an offer to work there for a couple of months before my immigration to the US in 1967

What a bull$hit you are talking. In fact, you never immigrated to the US in 1967 and I doubt if you were born at that time. The mods tolerating you on the PF is a total disaster. Anyway, mods tolerating you on the PF just show to what low levels the PF has been brought to. I am sure the forum should be closed down for good now.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,197
21 Jun 2018  #809
In fact, you never immigrated to the US in 1967 and I doubt if you were born at that time

If I were to send copies of the relevant documents to the administrator and he then would tell you that you are wrong, would you STFU, or are you going to say that (1) the docs are fake, or (2) that I bribed the administrator or (3) something else?

Please read my last post in: Poland - never again. It was about people like you.
Crow 137 | 7,595
21 Jun 2018  #810
Crow, I am glad you are here.

Yes. English mistaken for siding with Arab mujas and Germanics against Serbians and now English turned to be biggest receivers in Europe.

It gets lonely being the only non-Polish Russian suck up here?

You know, from all European ethoses, you English have darkest souls. What went wrong, I don`t know.

Why can`t you share joy with Slavs and enjoy with them while they uniting? What`s that ugly in you to prevent it?


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