RUSSIA TO MAKE PUBLIC THE KATYN FILES...

I read to day that the Russian president has ordered that all the files relating to the killing of some 2200 Polish officers in the forests of Katyn be made public....

I am sure there will be some who will consider this as some kind of sneaky Russian trick , but it seems to me they really do want to have a better relationship with Poland , and realise that this issue needs to be brought out in the open in order for wounds to heal...

The Katyn files have up to now only been available only to specialist researchers , this is a brave move from the Russian president , i hope it will be well recieved in Poland....

I'm sure it'll be well received by why is it "brave"? About 70 years late but...

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8648275.stm

Russia publishes Katyn massacre archives

Russian and Polish leaders recently marked Katyn together for the first time
Russia has published previously secret documents on the 1940 Katyn massacre, in which some 22,000 Polish officers were killed by Soviet forces.

Just my opinion....and yes , its 70 years late , but the communist system was full of lies , even to their own people , so its no suprise they denied the murder of prisoners of war...

Skysoulmate,

to understand why it's brave, take in account that Russian society is still strongly divided between people who condemn communism and its legacy, and those who still think it was something glorious and marvelous. All issues related to the communist past carry very high emotional charge in Russia, and their mishandling can lead to major troubles like civil unrest or even a civil war. As a country leader, no matter what you think personally, you must take this danger in account. This is why the acknowledgment of true history will take a long time in Russia, probably after the majority of the Soviet-born generation is gone. And this is why this is an act of courage - neo-communists will not forgive him, and they are still strong.

It is more of a significant step because it moves Russia one step closer towards 2 classic tenets of democracy, namely transparency and access to information. America is moving the other way by classifying many documents in the name of national security or public secrets etc. It is a nice gesture by the Russians.

I wonder how many of the old veterans marching in the victory parade every 9th May are war criminals, maybe even were there in Katyn or raping their way till Berlin...

From what my relatives are finally and slowly telling me about my grandfather and his military service was that the unit that he was with, he may have been in the vicinity of where the Katyn Massacre happened. My grandfather and a brother of his served in the Polish Armed Forces.

But right now I am still having problems in obtaining his military records.

It is not brave at all - and nothing new . Copies of all these documents were sent by Pres. Yeltsin to Polish officials in early 90-th.

But for unclear reason these docs were "closed" again in Russian archives. The catastrophy with Polish President put publisc attention to this problem - and now Russian public opinion is on Polish side...


There are not criminals - they are true heroes and winners. Criminals - forever - are those who lost WWII.

Like the Russians in Afghanistan?

No, it's quite different - they fight for our country and won. If necessary we will repeat.

Russians in Afghanistan were the same like Americans in Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan. All these are just local wars - part of a big political game with local people lives. Yes, all these are crimes.

Here is some read on the issue.





en.rian.ru/russia/20100428/158786985.html


Little or nothing. Just the evil is more striking... and journalists keep the high-profile of it. That what journalism is about.

This is really quite positive, I wonder when Olga comes here and seeks us to inform that all this is a plot for the Russians to take over ;)

How do you know? Where there any trials? Ever?


How do you know?

Were war criminals, murderer and rapists ever punished?

I know. Open a trial if you wish - otherwise your opinion doesn't matter.

My opinion?

That isn't a matter of opinion...aren't you yourself not interested in finding out and punishing war criminals?

But then...most of your people were also murdered by your own people, not the Nazis, it must be hard for a Russian to accept that and ignoring that past and denying that must be much easier.

You are good at that!

How many of those still marching stalinist veterans had been in the murdereous NKVD? The plague of your own people for much longer than the the war and the Nazis existed!

You think you won? For Germany it was over '45, you got 50 more years of oppression, secret police and Gulags...

And who are war criminals? Was there any trial?

They won war. Losers can call them "criminals" - I can understand it but it doesn't matter.

Well, you are right...as long as your people don't start yourself nobody can help you...
You have to live with it, not us! After all they oppressed and killed their own people more than any other...*shrugs*

PS: You would probably call the victims of Stalin's russian "Katyn" losers too... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

Losers, yes?

OK - we don't ask for your help.

It is our history and we can't change it. The problem was who was more evil - and in that period of time even Stalin was better than Hitler.

Thank you for the link, very interesting. As other people here have said, it's about 70 years late, but better late than never, I suppose.

At least he didn't concentrate on killing his own people..

That might sound cynical but it's a saying... victors are not judged. After all nobody made fascists (except for Mr. Schicklgruber) come to our land, mass murder people, rape women etc. Another principal is what goes around comes around. One could say "you deserve it" although I'm not a fan of such harsh rhetoric.


And yes... it's a nice suggestion. If you want a trial go for it but be aware it may turn out you'll have to prosecute mostly your own Opa's in Germany and in the US (where mass of them fled to right after the war).

If you want to know my opinion then I don't see any sense in raking the dust and aches of the past (to say nothing of that it's barely possible after 70 years). We forgave you. The Russians don't have any grudge against you. Isn't it a proper time to stop raking?


Agree but that doesn't make your position firmer.

Crusader, yeah, I was eagerly waiting for that particularly in the light of recent events.

Child rapists are true heroes?


That is very true.

Don't misunderstand me Sasha...it's not about me, my Opa or Germany.
We came clear with our past.

It's the russian way of thinking what puzzles me...you are the most opressed, murdered, abused people in Europe and instead of fighting this you still revere and honor your opressors!

We will see that in May again.

Many of those veterans were also part in killing Russians (I mean it wasn't the Marsians which killed and deported so many millions of your own), I'm sure of it....but you cheer them like...well....brain amputated, stockholm syndrom suffering, idiots, sorry to say that!

Stalin and his helpers killed much more of your own than the Germans ever could...

History is not reversable.

I would be happy if Western democracies could won war against Hitler without Russians. May be it would help us to remove Stalin and communism earlier and save more lives.


Looks like I missed the moment when you opened a case against rapists? There was an army tribunal for rapists in Soviet army.

Was there resistance? Who could have done the "removing"?

There was a civil war in 1918-20 - White movement lost, most educated people were killed. Any resistance was supressed with mass murders.
Stalin "cult" was removed after 1953 and most radical NKVD officers were killed or were put to prison -but by other communists. Mass murders and repressions were stopped after that. Stalin was already a history when I was young.

Raping civilians was tolerated by many officers of the Red Army. Only when it became too obvious what was going on, did they interfere and stop the atrocities. Tribunals? Yeah, maybe for some scapegoats.

Many of those fighted with the Wehrmacht later to have a go at their red oppressors, didn't they...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army

BB no offense but you seem to misinterpret the incoming information.
Those who we "honour in May" has little to none to do with mass murders of Russians/Soviets/Poles. You must have confused NKVD with regular soldiers. NKVD was completely different department consisted of so-called "tilovaja krisa" (swivel-chair warrioirs, "reaward rats" if stick with literal translation from Russian) who were responsible for execution of defectors and so on. Does one need 1000 people to execute another 1000? Obviously not. Thus the overall quantity of NKVD-members is really tiny compared to veterans who we praise and they hardly have anything to do with veterans. Even if there are some among them there's a juridical term such as presumption of innocence. If you want to judge them, prove it first. Or should I in your book turn my nose up at all of them for the only reason that some of them are possibly guilty? That's not gonna work. :)

In case you still want to judge NKVDshnikov... Most of them I believe are already gone, those who gave orders even long ago. Having said that, I agree with that the government shouldn't let it slide. The ones who are guilty must be sued.


Certainly grates on my ears. I only cherish a hope that this piece of art is not what they write in your press. BB, we don't praise murderers. We praise people who laid their lives for the my opportunity to speak Russian and live in this at times inhuman, in patches dirty but in general lovely and, I want to believe, kindhearted country.

Yes, possible there were such cases but definitely less than we now talk about. It became a propaganda tool against Soviets after the war - communist's propaganda is not better just used different tools.

You describe Soviet army which would couldn't exist as an army - not talking about winning against strong enemy. It's soldiers were not angels but they struggled against European "true Aryes" and before entering Europe saw what they did in Belarus, Ukraine and Russia. More than 15 million civilians were murdered by Nazis on USSR territory.


ROA - Russian Liberation Army - collaborated to Nazis and were our enemies. As these they were prisoners of war and founded their right place after the war.