Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia

You're starting to show how little you actually know about aviation. Given that the box is a Polish military device, it's highly likely that it will actually contain a significant amount of details about the instrumentation, especially if there was a sudden catastrophic failure that suggests external interference.

One thing that you quite probably don't know about is the fact that many modern aeroplanes automatically "phone home" with details of problems. It's this which has allowed a reasonable guess to be made about the fate of AF447, and I'd be surprised if something similar didn't exist on the TU-154.


Has AES-192 been broken? No? There's your answer. It would be incredibly sloppy and lax of the Poles to have a military piece of equipment not using the highest grade of encryption available to them. The fact that the Russians openly said that they couldn't read it suggests that it was indeed encrypted using AES-192 or at least AES-128.


Something that has been 'enhanced' is not identical to the original.

Anyway, if you admit that the enhanced video is the same as the original, then if the dialogue is translated accurately (it's not, but anyway) - then you also admit that the weather conditions are accurate. That means you admit that there was fog at the time of the crash. Cute :)


Where has it been stated by anyone involved with the investigation that this is the case? Or are you still insinuating that the Polish military prosecutors are in fact liars and Russian traitors?

Olga, hey, while we're at it - did you ever find one single remotely credible news source for the story about the cameraman being killed? Even Nasz Dziennik hasn't reported it!

Nice video by the way - taken 2 days after the plane crash :) Or have you chosen to conveniently forget that the wreckage was left in place for a few days?

Really. Then why the hell has it been turned over to them--it was stated earlier that Russia doesn't even have the capability to read this black box. BS.


You have provided little more than convenient speculations.

Been in similar situation many times, when lived few km NW from Sheremetyevo airport and had to drive there from Moscow at evenings. Clear air, and, suddenly, visibility drops to 300-500m.

Once had so dense fog in a darkness, so I (was a passenger that time) was forced to lower window glass and watch for edge of road while driver watched for a taillights of a car that was in front of us (we all drive about 3-5 km/h). Due to headlights light diffused in a fog, driver was unable to see road in front of them, it looked like a milk with two faint red lights in them.

Did you even read the article? The tests were performed on behalf of the Russians, who have the sole right to conduct the investigation under the relevant international law. The black box has been decrypted and the results passed to the Russians - as you would expect, as it may help them in their investigation. Given the openness so far in the investigation, what would it achieve to withhold the data from the Russians?

Obviously the box was given back to the Russians because the investigation is - well - being carried out in Russia. It's rather useless to them anyway, but it doesn't make sense to have parts of the plane's equipment in Poland.

Then again - I don't expect you to know a damn thing about military encryption or how it works. You struggled enough with the concept of why the TAWS system didn't work as it was supposed to - military encryption might just be too difficult for you.

(go on : tell me that the Russians can break AES. Please, please...)


It's what makes me laugh about the CF crowd - they refuse to accept that these kind of things can actually happen out of nowhere. It wouldn't be the first time that something has crashed due to the sudden onset of thick fog!

You're still stuck on the fog, lol! Hopeless...

Tell me Olga - either the video is accurate or it isn't. The video that you posted clearly shows fog - so is it accurate, or has it been tampered with?

Your call. :)

By the way, I'm still waiting for more proof about the video creator being killed in Kyiv. Why hasn't any of the Polish media picked up on this yet, Olga?

Smoke--from the burning wreckage.

The plane was at the same airport only a day earlier:
poranny.pl/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100412/KATASTROFA_PREZYDENT/16985819

"I was already in the Katyn forest when the plane crashed, and the visibility was perfect, the sun was shining."
guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/11/poland-president-plane-crash-kaczynski

1. It seems too uniformly distributed for a few flames that may be somewhere around.
2. Most flammable thing should be remaining fuel, but when I seen burning kerosene, it either burned with no smoke at all, either give blask smoke. Most plastics also give carbon-rich blask smoke when burning. On a video we see something white...

Your comments on this?

When something does not easily burn it gives off a lot of smoke. Also, keep in mind, it is difficult to distinguish exactly what color the smoke is or is not on the video, due to the recording quality. However, it is evident there is much smoky haze. But you cannot discount the eyewitness statements.

Velund, here, in Russian:
rian.ru/video/20100411/220738363.html

Same, in English:
en.rian.ru/video/20100412/158542562.html

Also, notice that at 32 sec, immediately after the word "ubijat" the sirens turn on...
youtube.com/watch?v=OX4bO0Op0Tw&feature=related

Me too. But by now you should kow her strategy, bla bla bla everyday few different conspircies (same vidoe), but when proved it is rubbish, then pretend not read the question, wait a little, then start all over again, never answer a question straight.

The reason I believe is someone providing the contents of posts, so is not possible to answer question at once, there is time zone different between where she is and her sponsor, need to wait for the official answer from probabaly London.

Then Tusk is out of touch with reality, Olga, because Szeremet and Rzepa are due to go across and exchange findings on Tuesday I believe. Check one of the links I posted above, the Polish delegation is to be sent across. It's a bit cheeky really as the Russian authorities hold the bulk of the data and they ask the Poles to come across, what a joke!

Ah, so you're really not too informed, because it's already been discovered that the "sirens" aren't actually sirens at all.

Cordial invitations by Harry, points about agent orange and Ukraine, fighting for Poland and various other off topic posts, comprising nine pages, removed.

Is there anything about it in Polish press?
washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/13/inside-the-ring-86422687

The article is complete rubbish. For a start, the computers and memory sticks will all have been secured using AES-128 as a bare minimum, if not AES-192. After all - why the hell would a NATO military fly into an unfriendly territory without having everything secured?

Then the talk about "interim government" - what interim government? The PO-PSL coalition is holding up fine. Surprise - Americans fail to understand that the Polish president isn't part of the government.

Poland has also stressed repeatedly that they enjoy full access to the investigation - so more nonsense.

You have to consider the source. On that same page there was a link to a heartfelt manifesto by Ted Nugent.

That's why I asked for Polish sources. This article looked odd.

When will this be, Crow?

it was before Kaczynski`s funeral

Aha. Any thoughts on his likely successor, Komorowski? He is the natural incumbent but we need sb fresher.

Komorowski?

i suppose he is normal. i expect him to annul Poland`s Kosovo recognition

To annul Kosovo's recognition? Not likely! If Tusk doesn't want it, he won't speak up!

more and more that Tusk sound as dictator to me. Poland`s ruler in the name of USA and EU

Well, LK was also close to America and Israel, distant from Russia.

Tusk, a dictator? Nah, not really. You usually hear more about the impact of dictators in the world. Oh, he could be a quiet dictator, how about that term? ;) ;)

i just started thread in that sense. Will ya contribute?

I'll see what I can do :) Oh, I'm not Polish, Crow.

Please. You was always good time exterminator

Good time exterminator? What does that mean?

it means that you often have interesting posts

Hmm...there's a Serbian nuance in there that I'm not getting ;) ;)

I get tired of trotting out main lines and overly regular posts so I try and shake it up. Thanks for the compliment!