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Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia


Crow 143 | 7,290    
16 Nov 2016  #661
Crow, Russians shot down a passenger jet full of Dutch children and families on their way to Malaysia.

did they?

They forcibly annexed chunks of another country (Ukraine).

What you expect in a world without order (say one great thanks to Clinton`s for that)? What should Russians do in a situation when they sow how USA and western Europe behave on sovereignty of states? In that situation Russia merely reacted by its historical right. Crimea was always Russian and they just closed that question.

Shooting down a bunch of top-ranking Poles would hardy have 'a dramatic impact on image of Russia'.

You fantasize here.

Why would country that can sc*** even USA, Britain, France or Germany decide to waste time with killing of presidents of smaller states?? Where is sport in that?

Plus, Kaczinsky traveled to Russia in order to improve relations with Russians.

They have no image, except ruthless killers, and they quite like that.

I don`t have that impression. I just read some books of Russian classics.

So if it was them, ..... Instead, they like to see that paranoid poison dwarf steet PiS and Poland into economic chaos, civil unrest, and fracturing with the EU and NATO.

If it is up to them, they would annex entire Slavic world to Russia. But, they tried that and it was proved to be impossible. So, they won`t repeat mistake.

But Jaroslaw and Crow probably think that Occam's Razor is something that you use for shaving.

fantasy.
peterweg 36 | 2,323    
16 Nov 2016  #662
It does beg the question why the Russians have not returned the aircraft to Poland, Anyone got any Ideas ?

Think like a gangster, for that is exactly who controls Russia. They want leverage over their former/future colonies and this provides it.

Instead, they like to see that paranoid poison dwarf steet PiS and Poland into economic chaos, civil unrest, and fracturing with the EU NATO.

And this.

With Europe, the EU and NATO its 'divide and conquer'.

Nationalism, Brixit, Trump they are all Putins babies because they weaken the West and Putin wants to destroy the West ( and all the EU is the 'West' now).

Conspiricy theories, doubt, fear, distrust, disinformation - the 'Post-Truth' World is the KGB's stock-in-trade.
mafketis 16 | 6,004    
16 Nov 2016  #663
did they?

Why yes. Yes they did.

They probably were aiming at a Russian passenger plane which they were planning on using as a casus belli to fully invade Ukraine.

The Russian state hates any slav group that doesn't bow and grovel to them.

If they don't hate Serbia then..... guess why?
Observvver    
16 Nov 2016  #664
"Why would country that can sc*** even USA, Britain, France or Germany decide to waste time with killing of presidents of smaller states?? Where is sport in that?"

Well, exactly. It's about as likely as Donald Tusk wanting to kill 96 people.

"Plus, Kaczinsky traveled to Russia in order to improve relations with Russians."

So why are they holding onto the wreckage? To help Donald Tusk? Or just to mess with the heads of the naughty Poles who turned their back on them and joined NATO? That's what bullies do. A Serbian nationalist should be familiar with that.

The problem with the Smolensk conspiracy theory is that it contradicts itself so much that it ties itself in knots. The poison dwarf is unstable and paranoid with grief, and he's creating a cult of martyrdom and victimhood to play out his personal deluded fantasies of revenge. A man with almost no knowledge of women is now dictating what they should do with their bodies; a man with almost no knowledge of other countries is playing geopolitical games with 35 million people; a man who failed to become president is trying to persecute thopse that succeeded. This poison dwarf is a sociopath. He is a cult, surrounding himself with obedient but otherwise fairly untalented people that he can dominate. And he thinks that he *is* Poland. It's rather reminscent of the 1930s, and we know what became of those people and their countries.

Whilst this naive, fantasist, bullying poison dwarf plays his silly little games with Poland, there is a genuinely intelligent, vastly experienced and utterly ruthless gangster playing geopolitics for real next door, with weapons. The posion dwarf thinks that Viktor Orban, part-time war-gamers and women trained in karate defence will be Poland's deterrent against this gangster, and he can afford to alienate the real nuclear deterrents of NATO and the EU. This poisonous munchkin is exposing Poland to its biggest future threat of independence, and I hope society stops him before he does too much damage.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,023    
16 Nov 2016  #665
The Russian state hates any slav group that doesn't bow and grovel to them.If they don't hate Serbia then..... guess why?

Crow would explain it better to you, but I must say that you are oversimplifying things enormously here. Russia has been a traditional ally of Serbia for centuries. The Turkish invasions of the Balkan peninsula was the main factor responsible for this. The only power the Serbians could appeal for help in fighting the Turks were the Russians with whom they also share their Orthodox Christian religion and the cyrillic alphabet.

These days there also comes the factor of Kosovo which was once a Serbian ethnic territory and which the so-called West decided to deprive the Serbians of despite insisting that border changes in Europe are unacceptable anywhere else.

To say that Serbia only bows and grovels to Russia is very unfair to the Serbians, to say the least. Even some huge mistakes in the foreign policy of Serbia doesn't justify that.
Wincig 2 | 150    
16 Nov 2016  #666
Russia has been a traditional ally of Serbia

Yes, brothers in arms, two of the most savage/ruthless ethnicities in Europe!
mafketis 16 | 6,004    
16 Nov 2016  #667
f Kosovo which was once a Serbian ethnic territory and which the so-called West decided to deprive the Serbians of

Actually Serbians decided to deprive themselves of it by moving en masse away from it (it's essentially useless territory) creating a vaccuum for albanians (who have lower expectations about standard of living than Serbs) to fill and then discriminating against albanians and trying to pretend there was a Serb majority there (which hasn't actually existed for a hundred years or so).
Ziemowit 12 | 3,023    
16 Nov 2016  #668
two of the most savage/ruthless ethnicities in Europe!

I can see "Turkey, Istanbul" in your profile, Wincig. Are you Turkish? If so, you should first start explaining the Armenian Genocide by the Turks in 1915-1917 before moving on to accusing other ethnicities of being ruthless or savage.
Wincig 2 | 150    
16 Nov 2016  #669
Are you Turkish?

Nope
Crow 143 | 7,290    
16 Nov 2016  #670
Late Polish president Lech Kaczinsky was great brother to Serbians. Let God give peace to his noble Sarmatian soul. Kaczinsky trusted to Serbians and knew that in Polish-Russian dispute, Serbians always sided with Poles.

You know, Poles can pray for good Serbian-Russian relations. These good relations should give confidence to Poles that Poland isn`t targeted by Russia.

That what Serbians can do for safety of Polish children is much more then NATO can provide. A lot more. Even in situation when that same NATO actually complicate to Poles. That much I can tell you.
Crow 143 | 7,290    
16 Nov 2016  #671
Yes, brothers in arms, two of the most savage/ruthless ethnicities in Europe!

See, Wincige, you and likes of you, crucial mistake was/is to always insist to point how are Serbs equal to Russians. It underestimate Polish logic and actually play on Polish-Russian antagonism in order to minimize Serbians in the eyes of Poles.

It is truth that Poles do have historically negative experience with Russia. But, they have more then positive historical experience with Serbians and it is completely different issue, with primordial positive emotions. Now, when you come to Poles and insist that are Serbs same as Russians, you actually force Poles to think better about Russians. That in situation when nothing on this Earth was able to force Poles to change their negative opinion about Russians. Upload of Serbian factor in Polish thinking about Russians was tactical mistake. Serbians do affect Polish opinion, same way as they affect opinion of Russians. Every civilization have its cornerstone, its backbone, its old core. That role Serbians play within Slavic world.
Crow 143 | 7,290    
2 Feb 2017  #672
With increased Poland`s demands that Russia needs to give back remains of Polish presidential plane, we are closer and closer to answer on question- is it about assassination. Assassination organized by NATO and EU.

How is this so?

If NATO and EU stays behind assassination, traces of explosion should be inside of plane remains. So, if pushed hard (to give plane back to Poland), Russia wold reveal this evidences. Russia must do this while control remains of plane. If Russia give plane back these evidences would be destroyed. So, we should soon expect Russian conformation and then, for sure, new international investigation.

Sure, maybe, it was truly a tragedy. Then, sooner or later Russia would give plane back, after is international investigation concluded and results published in public.
johnny reb 16 | 3,271    
11 Apr 2018  #673
Poland is now waiting for the remains of the plane Crow.
EIGHT YEARS later the Official Report is made public Crow.
A commission probing the disaster, which killed President Lech Kaczyński, and 95 others aboard - including top political and military figures - said that the catastrophe was not caused by pilot error.

According to the commission, first the presidential plane's left wing exploded when the jet was more than 900 metres from Smolensk airport.
Later, while the plane was still in the air, there was an explosion in the plane's hull and a total power failure, according to the report.

Air traffic controllers in Smolensk gave the Polish plane crew erroneous information on their approach to landing, the report added.

delphiandomine 86 | 16,550    
11 Apr 2018  #674
Johnny, perhaps you'd prefer to read the real official (and final) report.

doc.rmf.pl/rmf_fm/store/rkm_en.pdf
Crow 143 | 7,290    
11 Apr 2018  #675
Air traffic controllers in Smolensk gave the Polish plane crew erroneous information

But what any and even erroneous information by controllers in Smolensk (any controllers) have with explosion of wing and especially with explosion in the hull of plane?

This rapport that you mentioned only confirms me even more that Lach Kaczynski was assassinated by circles within EU and NATO. See, NATO in its statute have clause that state that (to paraphrase)- `alliance have right to kill every person in any state that is member of alliance, if actions of person may weaken the alliance and confront with policy of alliance`.

Why did Lech Kaczynski traveled to Russia? As he said and as was expected in Russia, in act of friendship, in order to improve relations with Russia, to hystorically improve relations between Poles and Russians.

Who in only leader of NATO pact that so violently criticized NATO and EU powers on session of UNGA? It was Lech Kaczynski. He did it defending Serbians and Poland and Russia may have different historical problems but, on Balkan, on the lands of Serbians, Polish and Russian interests always went hand in hand (actually even Pope John Paul II had conflict with NATO when NATO attacked Serbians- or should I remind you on reaction of Jan Lopuzanski of Polish right wing Catholics within Polish parliament who said that if NATO (citation) ``when today NATO attack Serbia, tomorrow will Poland``). Plus, we knows that back in those days Serbian diplomats activated `Sarmatian connection` with Poles and by some, even mediated between Poland and Russia, for Serbians now needs support of both and Polish-Russian conflict don`t suits us and never suited us.

p-s

Polish President Lech Kaczynski and Serbian President Boris Tadic, pictured on same day when during session of UNGA, Polish President criticized NATO (joining that day to stance of Russia). Scandal was even bigger considering that Lech Kaczynski criticized president of his own government (what was never seen in history of UN), Tusk, who pushed for recognition of Kosova and supported partition of Serbia, while Lech Kaczynski opposed to it. On the same image, in the background, you can see Vuk Jeremic that later himself became President of UNGA, young Serbian diplomat that had special talks with Lech Kaczynski and asked for Poland`s support and got it, at least from President of Poland- who represent voice of Polish people that in great majority was and is on Serbian side.

vj

Vuk Jeremić, former Serbian Minister of Foreign Affairs and former president of the UN General Assembly - mediated between Polish and Russian Presidnets to secure their joint support to Serbian and Slavic cause cause in the region

moneta of the Polish King Mieszko I, over 1000 year old currency - Sarmatian symbolism

Never underestimate symbolism.

EU and NATO killed Lech Kaczynski. That`s what one must conclude if follow intersection of interests.
johnny reb 16 | 3,271    
11 Apr 2018  #676
Johnny, perhaps you'd prefer

Perhaps not, I prefer reading the latest Official Report out today.

especially with explosion in the hull of plane?

So there were two explosions, one in the wing and one in the hull ?
Crow 143 | 7,290    
11 Apr 2018  #677
When Anglo-Franco-Germanics want you to die, they do it efficiently. Lech Kaczynski was brave enough to oppose them and so he had to die. Plus, when he decided to oppose, he did it in tandem with Russian President. How he could dare to think that Poles can be more then just then mere servants to their western European masters. How he could dare to think that Polish-Russian antagonism needs to end and that Poles and Russians may have some common interests.

RiP Lech, brate Sarmate. Racowie will remember you. You was killed but your soul is immortal.

Long live free Poland!
lonpol 7 | 29    
11 Apr 2018  #678
peterweg - Nationalism, Brixit, Trump they are all Putins babies because they weaken the West and Putin wants to destroy the West

I can assure you we did not vote for Brexit due to Putin
Slavictor 9 | 187    
15 Apr 2018  #679
Some recent photos in commemoration of the tragic incident, including unveiling the new memorial.









delphiandomine 86 | 16,550    
15 Apr 2018  #680
Perhaps not, I prefer reading the latest Official Report out today.

That isn't an official report, just a "technical report". The reason is simple: under Polish law, publishing false facts in official reports is a punishable offence. However, you can publish all the nonsense you want in other reports.

Still, I understand that you might prefer to believe in fairytales.
Wulkan - | 3,280    
15 Apr 2018  #681
Nationalism, Brixit, Trump they are all Putins babies because they weaken the West and Putin wants to destroy the West

haha Is this guy just trolling or is he for real? Nevertheless, it made me laugh.
Slavictor 9 | 187    
15 Apr 2018  #682
Another photo

(Notice the windows on the building)






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