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Poland's post-election political scene


Atch 16 | 2,639    
14 Dec 2015  #151
You can still spoil your vote and lodge a protest vote but you must at least turn up and be counted as having voted.

Wouldn't agree with that at all. I don't vote in elections anymore, only in referendums because Smurf that's really the only time that your vote makes an actual tangible difference that you as an individual can measure. That's really the only time that democracy becomes a reality. The rest of the time it's an illusion.

Now I agree that democracy despite its flaws is the best system we've come up with but the bottom line is that all you get with your vote is the chance to give a particular party the power to run the country. After that they can do whatever they like and deliver or fail to deliver on their election promises etc. and there's sod all you can do to remove them from the position of power you gave them until the next election rolls around. And in the end, we all muddle along anyway.
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
14 Dec 2015  #152
Are you going to show me a single PiS voter that "have no faith in PiS already" ?

Certainly.
wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/sondaz-problemy-rzadu-beaty-szydlo/mh3vpr#.Vm2nlosNTKY.twitter

The gist of the article is numerous opinion polls showing that the electorate have no faith in Szydło's ability to deliver on the promises made, as well as showing how the voters are blaming PiS for this current mess.
G (undercover)    
14 Dec 2015  #153
You could come up with pretty much the same stuff 1 month ago. That quite a few people "don't like them" is irrelevant. PiS have strong base of supporters, people that really care, not the kids of Facebook that might go to vote or not... if the sun is not shining strong enough. The real PiS supporters are happy that they are starting to clean the mess for real.
smurf 39 | 1,994    
14 Dec 2015  #154
Wouldn't agree with that at all. I don't vote in elections anymore,

I've never voted in my life, not even in university president elections. But if I was forced I'd do it. I wanted to vote in the previous local election for Ruch Autonomii Śląska but certain clowns weren't able to process my paperwork even though I handed it in months before.

Now I agree that democracy despite its flaws is the best system we've come up with but the bottom line is that all you get with your vote is the chance to give a particular party the power to run the country.

That right there is the crux of the problem, IMO the only European country that has true democracy is Switzerland. They vote on all kinds of mad stuff, the people I mean, not the career-unqualified-politicians like here and in our homeland.

I think though with enough pressure a snap election can be called, or following some huge scandal. And PiS are never far from one of them.

wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/sondaz-problemy-rzadu-beaty-szydlo/mh3vpr#.Vm2nlosNTKY.twitter

Very good article, no bias, just the facts. Right wingers don't like facts.
G (undercover)    
14 Dec 2015  #155
I've never voted in my life

Feckin congrats :))))))))))
smurf 39 | 1,994    
14 Dec 2015  #156
My choice chopie, nothing to do with you
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
14 Dec 2015  #157
I think though with enough pressure a snap election can be called, or following some huge scandal.

I wonder how long Duda can survive. The academic world is now against him, the people are turning on him rapidly (and he's now very clearly seen in opinion polls as being a puppet) - and he's now facing the prospect of being forced to use his pardon to get PiS members out of trouble in relation to the lack of publishing the TK decisions.

I don't think we'll see early elections in the Sejm, but I can see Duda being forced to resign through mass pressure.
OP Polonius3 1,007 | 12,507    
14 Dec 2015  #158
electorate have no faith

Wasn't it Goebbels that said a lie repeated 100 times gets believed. The superior PR/propaganda machinery of the Michnik/opposition hate industry has kept hammering into the public that PiS are to blame for this, guitly of that, have violated something else, broken some rule or not kept a promise over and over and over until many people involved in their own daily affairs start believing it.

Hats off to Goebbels!
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
14 Dec 2015  #159
Wasn't that exactly what PiS did for 8 years?
jon357 65 | 13,618    
14 Dec 2015  #160
The 18 percenters did it with gusto and enthusiasm, though the only people who believed them are people who quite frankly believe in any old thing.
smurf 39 | 1,994    
14 Dec 2015  #161
I don't think we'll see early elections in the Sejm, but I can see Duda being forced to resign through mass pressure.

That's not a good thing. I firmly believe and those that know me will know I've been saying this since PiS won........Duda will eventually be forced out, PiS will change and butcher up the constitution to allow Glorious In the Closet Leader and Cat Lover to become President, he'll take full power and won't have won a single vote to do it.

People will protest and people will riot, but we've already seen that the cops are in the pocket of PiS.
It's imperative that Duda stays in power for that not to happen. I think that his Catiness wanted an inexperienced nobody in power so that he could be tossed aside when he'd served his purpose, the same goes for the PM.

NOw, this is all a worst case scenario, but you can see how quickly they moved to change things that the ball is rolling now. I think though that he didn't expect such a public backlash. His next move will be interesting.

Wasn't it Goebbels that said a lie repeated 100 times gets believed

He also said

the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

That's quite fitting for modern day Poland isn't it???
OP Polonius3 1,007 | 12,507    
14 Dec 2015  #162
believe in any old thing

You are aware of the fact that the term "hate industry" has been ascribed to PO's hysterical reaction to their defeat in 2005, and now they have done a rerun.

Tjhe 18-percenters were the only ones that ever won an election outright, BTW how many fewer percent did PO get?
The ones that will believe anything are the gullible Petru backers who naively think they're defending democracy when they're actually protecting the elitist bankster kickback clique.
smurf 39 | 1,994    
14 Dec 2015  #163
It's imperative that Duda stays in power for that not to happen

Too strong a word. But if he's turfed out now, who gets the job, the Sejm's head speaker, so another Kaczinsky flunky. But trust me, if that happens they'll do their best to change the constitution to allow a party leader to take the 'throne' in the event of a President being fired/impeached/dying.
jon357 65 | 13,618    
14 Dec 2015  #164
I don't think we'll see early elections in the Sejm, but I can see Duda being forced to resign through mass pressure.

I certainly don't think they'll last a whole term of office. Re. Duda the dud, it's clear to any intelligent person that he's just a placeholder for the electorally toxic Jaro. Another couple of scandals and there will certainly be pressure on him to go (and his successor if an election is called will NOT be a PiS flapper. Worth remembering that the pressure was mounting on LK before fate intervened and he was trying his damndest to hang on. There was even talk of forcing him out due to medical unfitness.
smurf 39 | 1,994    
14 Dec 2015  #165
BTW how many fewer percent did PO get?

This is a major flaw with you. This isn't about PiS vs PO, it's about what it law according to the constitution, i.e what is best for the people of Poland. Not what is best for the supporters of a party that finally won an elections. I mean come on, according to the law of averages it was going to happen eventually.

If you could maybe remove your blinkers and look at the situation objectively, as a journalist should, then it's obvious that PiS are engaging in an illegal power grab.

Oh, my quote was Goring, not Goebbels, but y'know close enough
jon357 65 | 13,618    
14 Dec 2015  #166
elitist bankster kickback clique

A meaningless phrase if ever there was one.
OP Polonius3 1,007 | 12,507    
14 Dec 2015  #167
meaningless phrase

How would you then describe the politicans in the pay of Western corproate interests? That should actually be against the law or such politicians should be requried to register as agents of influence in foreign employ.
Ironside 47 | 9,250    
14 Dec 2015  #168
You can all argue to and fro to the end of time.

Facts are as follow:
PiS own fair and square a democratic election. A month hasn't passed as yet when opposition and losers kicked up a hysterical campaign to blacken and besmirch winners. MP of opposition are making a spectacle out of themselves crying and winging and using utterly inappropriate slogans for an allegedly respectable and reasonable option they claim to be.

They claim to be defending democracy but as they are questioning results of the democratic election at the some time by taking supporters to the streets its doesn't make sense.

If something doesn't make sense it is more oft than not a lie.

As a pretexts they use the issue of the Constitutional Court where all pro and cons to the medium are obscure for the public and ambiguous. There is no clear cut right or wrong and the blame cannot be put squarely at the door of one party as some would want us to believe it.

Unsuspected reader consider this:
That Court consists of 15 judges, ten of them are PO (current opposition) nominees, only five are nominees of the current government.
Yes, opposition is kicking all that fuss and getting hysterical and unbalanced because they have majority in the Constitutional Court.
What they want?

They want three more judges to have them more(sic?) or greater majority in the Court.
What it has to do with democracy I don't know and those kicking up that conflict don't know it either. Does it make a sense t o you?

Makes no sense to me!

I suspect that opposition is unable to reconcile with the fact they have lost an election and are reading a ground to attempt a coup or at least are trying to force an early election as if that would to them any good.

Posing as a defenders those people are the worst threat to the democracy in Poland there is.
OP Polonius3 1,007 | 12,507    
14 Dec 2015  #169
Posing as a defenders

This is a rerun of 2005. The mugs of the President from Kashubia and PM from Kraków were plastered on huge billboards across the country during the campaign. When that overly self-confident duo lost they were numb with shock and when they came to they uleashed a hysterical fury which came to be known as the PO "hate industry". Again this year they were shaken by the prospect of losing their perks, privileges and hefty foreign kickbacks so again they're stoking the flames of the Polish-Polish civil war with little regard for the country's future or welfare. Is such extremist polarisation of society good for Poland?
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
14 Dec 2015  #170
They claim to be defending democracy but as they are questioning results of the democratic election at the some time by taking supporters to the streets its doesn't make sense.

No-one is questioning the result. You've made that up in your head.

Yes, opposition is kicking all that fuss and getting hysterical and unbalanced because they have majority in the Constitutional Court.

You're distorting the facts.

They want three more judges to have them more(sic?) or greater majority in the Court.

No, we want PiS to follow the law.

The facts are very simple. Three judges were appointed legally by the previous Sejm. We want them to take their rightful place on the Constitutional Tribunal. The government is illegally refusing to publish the decision by the Constitutional Tribunal, despite there being absolutely no basis to do so. Therefore, the President and the Government are breaking the Constitution in an open and blatant way.

You know fine well that if PiS publish the ruling, then PiS cannot control the Constitutional Tribunal during this 2015-2019 period of the Sejm. The Constitutional Tribunal is the only thing standing between PiS and absolute power.

If you don't publish the decision, numbers will grow on the streets - and we'll have Maidan 2. Is that what you want?
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,181    
14 Dec 2015  #171
I certainly don't think they'll last a whole term of office.

Now reality check. MEPs of PSL and PO would crap their pants if they heard about early elections. This is most likely the last term ever in the Parliament for PSL, all of them and at least half of PO will not make it next time hence they will not support early elections, they won't give up even a single month of living on taxpayers' cost.

Swetru ? Give me a break, next Palikot, It would be enough to spread around several quotes from his ****** (and paid by taxpayers) "books" to send him back to 1 digit support... and once one of PO rats leaks info about their deals with Swetru, down below 5%. LSD ? Give me a break. PiS is the only party capable of winning majority and that's not going to change anytime soon. It doesn't matter that 2/3 "don't like" them, If 1/3 vote for them. The 0.7 l Kwachu (aka "Filipino") is still "liked" by quite a few, which doesn't change a fact that he's been feckin up any political project he touched since 10 years. It's politics, not the beauty contest.
smurf 39 | 1,994    
14 Dec 2015  #172
The Constitutional Tribunal is the only thing standing between PiS and absolute power.

That right there is it in its simplest form.

How anyone can argue against that is beyond my comprehension. Either will live in a constitutional democracy or we live in a dictatorship. Siding with PiS on this issue is akin to siding with Mussolini/Hitler/Franco when they did similar things to their constitutions when they seized power.

Now PiS aren't fascists, but if they get their way then the door is open for something like that to happen, because legally they'll be able to.
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,181    
14 Dec 2015  #173
Three judges were appointed legally by the previous Sejm.

Yeah and 2 others were appointed illegally by the previous Sejm, cool story... now go buy 3 bottles of whiskey and hide 2 more under your coat, once the security catch you, just try to tell them "ok, ok I will just put these 2 back on the shelve, walk away with the 3 I bought legally and everything will be fine" :)))
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
14 Dec 2015  #174
MEPs of PSL and PO would crap their pants if they heard about early elections.

Or they would salivate, knowing that PiS are in utter disarray and that voters will punish PiS heavily for causing early elections. Szydło wouldn't be able to fight a campaign as Prime Minister because the opposition would

More to the point, if elections were called now, then there would very likely be a broad coalition against PiS. Would PiS+Kukiz manage to get enough between them to avoid a supermajority on the part of the combined opposition? They would certainly lose, and the only question would be whether they would win enough.

Swetru ? Give me a break, next Palikot, It would be enough to spread around several quotes from his ****** (and paid by taxpayers) "books" to send him back to 1 digit support.

See, this is the arrogance of the right wing. You honestly think that Nowoczesna's support is going to drop because of a few quotes?

You know what gets me? I've read all your posts on here, and it's bloody obvious that you're terrified that PiS will screw this up. You know fine well that Duda is under sustained and repeated attack now, and if he breaks, PiS will lose the election as the opposition will put up some non-aligned figure with mass public support, and then their dreams will be over.

now go buy 3 bottles of whiskey and hide 2 more under your coat, once the security catch you, just try to tell them "ok, ok I will just put these 2 back on the shelve, walk away with the 3 I bought legally and everything will be fine" :)))

Your analogy is meaningless, because the ruling of the Constitutional Tribunal is clear. Your lack of respect for those rulings is typically PiS - but then, you're the first to cry when someone actually does stamp you on the face repeatedly.

Anyway, the polls speak for themselves - PiS are on a downwards trend.
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,181    
14 Dec 2015  #175
a broad coalition against PiS

Yeah, average guy on the street wants nothing else than:
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
14 Dec 2015  #176
Yeah, average guy on the street wants nothing else than:

Numbers are growing. The beautiful thing is that people like you can be quoted endlessly to show the sheer arrogance of PiS supporters.

I am. I'm almost hiding under jon's skirt.

No need to hide. We don't want revenge.
Ironside 47 | 9,250    
14 Dec 2015  #177
No,

Stop spamming this thread.

still spamming I see, never expected anything else from the likes of you,
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
14 Dec 2015  #178
Typical PiS voter, trying to silence anyone that doesn't agree with them.

Putin would be proud.
OP Polonius3 1,007 | 12,507    
14 Dec 2015  #179
Numbers are growing

the numbers are deluded into thinking they are fighting for democracy. In actuality, unbeknownst to them, they are fighting in defence of the privileges the opposittion (Petru, SLD, PO) scamsters stand to lose their persk and privileges if their dirty misdeeds are exposed.

The best way to obstruct the wheels of justice and vetting is to keep unrest simmering so PiS cannot get its clean-up campaign under way. The Michniks and Petrus and others with a finger in the pie will do everything possible, hurl the wildest accusations and crap in their pants to prevent that. It's as simple as that.
delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
14 Dec 2015  #180
the numbers are deluded into thinking they are fighting for democracy.

I'm certainly not deluded. I'm standing there in defence of the Constitution against a bunch of political opportunists that want to use Poland to line their own pockets.

The best way to obstruct the wheels of justice and vetting is to keep unrest simmering so PiS cannot get its clean-up campaign under way.

All PiS have to do is to follow the orders of the TK. It's pretty simple.

They've got a bit of respite now, but the pressure on Duda will increase. We're working all the time - the progress in two weeks has been incredible.



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