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Modern F-35 bought by Poland. Good decision?


Weimarer 10 | 620
11 Feb 2020 #91
@Miloslaw

The state of our airforce is still magnitudes above yours.

That said, can it reach Mach 1.9 and hold it? Yes or No? Its a simple question
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
11 Feb 2020 #92
That said, can it reach Mach 1.9 and hold it?

So what? If it's Mach 1.8, Germany will speak Russian?
Can some adult here put this conversation in its adult context aka the big picture before it gets down to screws and nuts?
johnny reb 23 | 4,486
11 Feb 2020 #93
The state of our airforce is still magnitudes above yours.

Oh horsesht W......lets stop the tuff talk.
If the U.S. Air Force is showing off their junk just think what they have that they are not showing off.
It's great for you to be so patriotic but lets face it, your jets will never get off the ground if there ever is a modern day war.
Weimarer 10 | 620
11 Feb 2020 #94
@johnny reb
Same counts for the F-35 garbage.

@Rich Mazur

Nope, thats exactly the point. The demand of German Luftwaffe was, that it can reach Mach 1.9 and keep it. The F-35 cant reach that Speed. Infact it cant fly Supersonic at all. It can reach only Mach 1.6 and only for short Moments. It Breaks apart if it tries to fly Supersonic for few minutes
johnny reb 23 | 4,486
11 Feb 2020 #95
Same counts for the F-35 garbage.

Not true as the U.S. have them deployed all around the world at many military bases and even on aircraft carriers where Germany does not.
Weimarer 10 | 620
11 Feb 2020 #96
@johnny reb
We dont need to.

USA used this Trash against countries that cant Strike back
Spike31 3 | 1,613
11 Feb 2020 #97
Not true as the U.S. have them deployed all around the world at many military bases and even on aircraft carriers where Germany does not.

In Weimares's simple mind modern Germany is some kind of global empire which it never was and will most likely never be in the future.

In a meantime Poland is building up the economy and its army at a decent steady pace. It is also worth noting that those forces are intended for the purpose of defence from mental Eastern and Western neighbours and not for aggression.
Weimarer 10 | 620
11 Feb 2020 #98
@Spike31

Germany is the hegemon of Europe. We are not a global empire nor do we have intention to be so.

That said you dont build up your army by implementing american trash.

The F-35 has a horrible renomee and is called dysfunctional.

Your national airline LOT suffers alot from american garbage. Poland acts like a submissive dog and buys that trash again and again.

Your 787? grounded. Your 737 max? grounded

They cheat you again and again and all you do is wag with the tail and howl: kick me again!

But hey on the plus side, your F-35 wont bother us with sonic booms. They cant go supersonic or break apart
mafketis 23 | 8,371
11 Feb 2020 #99
Germany is the hegemon of Europe

The German problem! Germany is doomed to dominate any European structure it's a part of (through a combination of population size, work ethic and technological know how) and the rest of Europe is going to resent that.

The EU has not found a way around that beyond trying to pretend it's not a problem.

Germany is an extremely praiseworthy country in many ways but... it's not a team player and the EU ends up being something like the Luxembourg national soccer team but with Messi.... he can't raise the rest of the team and ends up looking like a hot dog (and the other players don't like being outshone either).
johnny reb 23 | 4,486
11 Feb 2020 #100
dont build up your army by implementing american trash.

If you read your history books you would know that it was that American trash that won not one but two wars against you.
I guess it was the Germans trash that failed.

USA used this Trash against countries that cant Strike back

Which made it totally effective as America has the most powerful military on the planet bar none.

your F-35 wont bother us with sonic booms. They cant go supersonic

More of your propaganda as the F-35 most certainly can go supersonic and make sonic booms..........
Time you can it W as you are only making a fool of yourself with your loudmouth.
mafketis 23 | 8,371
11 Feb 2020 #101
If you read your history books

If you read your books you'd know that it was the USSR that defeated Nazi Germany (all the other allies are maybe around 10%) the US major effort in WWII was in the Pacific.

America has the most powerful military on the planet

It hasn't won a war in how many decades? It can't even keep sand pits like Iraq or Afghanistan under control.... not so impressive.
Torq 32 | 2,999
11 Feb 2020 #102
Germany is doomed to dominate any European structure it's a part of (through a combination of population size, work ethic and technological know how)

I don't believe it's true. There isn't any special "German gene" or anything. If Germany (the whole country), had been under communist rule for 44 years, and Poland in that time had had Marshall Plan, capitalism/ordoliberalism and economic freedom, then Germans would come to work in Poland today, not the other way around. I am absolutely sure of it.
mafketis 23 | 8,371
11 Feb 2020 #103
There isn't any special "German gene" or anything

Like I said it's party demographic (population size) and partly cultural factors (work ethic and technological savvy).
Torq 32 | 2,999
11 Feb 2020 #104
Yes, if you combine all these elements, then Germany would seem to be doomed to dominate. However, at closer scrutiny it isn't so obvious anymore - their native, ethnic German population is ageing and shrinking, their work ethic is OK, but I wouldn't really say it's better than Polish or Czech work ethic, and the level of their technological advancement can be reached with time through proper investment in high-tech research and development. So, they dominate at the moment, but it doesn't necessarily have to be like that in the future.
johnny reb 23 | 4,486
11 Feb 2020 #105
It hasn't won a war in how many decades?

We haven't been in a war in decades, only economic conflicts that have had rules of engagement.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
11 Feb 2020 #106
One thing you have to give to PiS is that they are very thorough in their strengthening of Polish military

Are they actually strengthening things? I'm highly skeptical about the WOT forces, unless you consider that their main job would be to act as cannon fodder while NATO got themselves together. Add the widescale purging of experienced officers (Stalin, anyone?), and you have to wonder how capable Poland actually is right now.

to stop us from helping the Baltics.

I have to say - I have my doubts about whether Poland would intervene if Lithuania was invaded. Realpolitik would say that the Baltics aren't particularly important from a strategic point of view, and they aren't particularly important economically as well.
Torq 32 | 2,999
11 Feb 2020 #107
Are they actually strengthening things?

Yes, all things considered, I believe they are.

I have my doubts about whether Poland would intervene if Lithuania was invaded.

I don't. Poland honours her obligations.
Weimarer 10 | 620
11 Feb 2020 #108
@Torq

Eastern Germany was under communist rule for 44 years, yet it was better than any other in warsaw bloc.

We obviously do someting right.

As for american trash, USA did not really participate in WW I and also not WW II. And when germans encountered americans, americans lost badly.

They simply throw their crap on you until you drown in it, there is no quality, no sophisticated tec, just crap.

Their aircrafts are junk, their ships are crap. Their entire tech is bullshit.

And no, the F-35 cant go supersonic. It starts to break apart because structural failure.
johnny reb 23 | 4,486
11 Feb 2020 #109
And when germans encountered americans, americans lost badly.

Tell us about the Battle of the Bulge. lol

They simply throw their crap on you until you drown in it,

Yes you do because if it wasn't for the Americans half of Europe would have starved to death and the other half would be speaking German today.

And no, the F-35 cant go supersonic.

You've got google don't you to show you just how wrong you are. Hoot !
hint: You are clueless how silly you are making yourself look.
Torq 32 | 2,999
11 Feb 2020 #110
Eastern Germany was under communist rule for 44 years, yet it was better than any other in warsaw bloc.

Yes, because we were busy sabotaging and finally bringing down the system (Solidarność), which made it possible for the Berlin Wall to fall, and you were following orders (as usual), so obviously your situation was better.

We obviously do someting right.

If you mean Germany as a whole, then yes, definitely. But remember that Western Germany pumped 1.3 trillion (yes, TRILLION) euros into a relatively small country like former DDR. The same Western Germany has 44 years of advantage over Poland. Give us 44 years of peace and economic freedom, and we'll do equally well. :)

when germans encountered americans, americans lost badly

Oh, so you actually won on Western Front in WW2? So my teachers were lying to me all the time... it's a scandal!

F-35

"F-35 Lightning II is the only international fifth-generation multirole fighter plane in the world. The extreme agility and stealth features, along with an integrated sensor package and modern weaponry, provide the F-35 with a tactical edge over all other fighter aircraft. The single-seat fighter is armed with a range of weapon systems such as Sidewinder and Storm Shadow, as well as Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs)."

airforce-technology.com/features/feature-world-most-advanced-fighter-aircraft-f35/

Great aircraft! The USA sold it to us because we are a reliable ally, and we buy a lot of equipment from them (the best in the world!). The message that our friend Donald Trump sends to the entire world through our close military ties is very simple, yet powerful - "You f*ck with Poland, you f*ck with us, so watch it!". God bless America!

Picture 1. Poland on the left, the USA on the right...

Poland and USA

... who would want to mess with us? He, he...
Weimarer 10 | 620
11 Feb 2020 #111
@johnny reb

Half of europe speaks German today. Its most spoken language in Europe.

Whats your problem with German?

The F-35 cant go supersonic, she breaks apart. She is only able to go super sonic for short burts.

Here from US airforce itself

defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/supersonic-speeds-could-cause-big-problems-for-the-f-35s-stealth-coating/

the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps' versions of the F-35 jet can only fly at supersonic speeds for short bursts of time before there is a risk of structural damage and loss of stealth capability, a problem that may make it impossible for the Navy's F-35C to conduct supersonic intercepts.

The Defense Department does not intend to field a fix for the problem, which influences not only the F-35's airframe and the low-observable coating that keeps it stealthy, but also the myriad antennas located on the back of the plane that are currently vulnerable to damage, according to documents exclusively obtained by Defense News.

The Defense Department has also instituted time limits on the number of seconds the F-35B and F-35C can fly at speeds in excess of Mach 1.2 while at full afterburner.

For example, an F-35C can only fly at Mach 1.3 in afterburner for 50 cumulative seconds, meaning that a pilot cannot clock 50 seconds at that speed, slow down for a couple seconds and then speed back up. However, the time requirements reset after the pilot operates at military power - an engine power setting that allows for less speed and thrust than afterburner - for a duration of three minutes.

The F-35B can fly for 80 cumulative seconds at Mach 1.2 or 40 seconds at Mach 1.3 without risking damage.

But for both the C and B models, flying at Mach 1.3 over the specified time limits poses the risk of inducing structural damage to the aircraft's horizontal stabilizer.

That piece of crap can go super sonic for a few seconds.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
11 Feb 2020 #112
I don't. Poland honours her obligations.

I like your optimism, but I don't share it. It's hard to imagine people in Western Poland supporting an intervention if ethnic Poles were left alone, particularly if there was a very real risk of the war moving onto Polish soil after Poland intervenes.
Torq 32 | 2,999
11 Feb 2020 #113
I like your optimism

It's not optimism. It's certainty based on knowledge of history and Polish ethos.
Miloslaw 7 | 3,256
11 Feb 2020 #114
Half of europe speaks German today. Its most spoken language in Europe

Only because over 80 million Germans speak it..... my god you live in a teutonic fantasy world.....
The most spoken second language in Europe is English.
Get over it.
Torq 32 | 2,999
11 Feb 2020 #115
80 million Germans

Only about 79% (65.5 million) of Germany's population are actually Germans...

i.postimg.cc/nrSsSdDP/1.png

... and decreasing each year (as the muslims multiply at incredible rate).

Most of other ethnicities in Germany probably speak German to some extent, but it might be used as their second, not first language.

Eurofighter

You see, there's no point buying equipment from countries that do not conduct wars. It makes a lot of sense to buy military equipment from a country that conducts wars all the time (and even manages occasionally to win some of them). Simple as that.
Weimarer 10 | 620
11 Feb 2020 #116
@Miloslaw
Most spoken 1st language im europe is German. Get over it.

Beside that, we have less muslims in Germany than Poles.

That said, US has not won a war since the 1950th. Maybe you should buy equipment from a country that actuall wins wars.

As for Polands obligations, i have little trust in Poland helping us in need. They never have nor could they.

In NATO, poland is seen as roadblock against russia, to take the worst so the important countries can react before it gets serious. A buffer zone
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
11 Feb 2020 #117
your jets will never get off the ground if there ever is a modern day war.

Hey, JR, so you are the adult here. Thanks. For a moment - too long and too irritating - I thought I was back to the high school cafeteria.

It hasn't won a war in how many decades?

To win a war the US would have to engaged in a war. Those were not war wars, but half-ass idiotic police actions.

We haven't been in a war in decades, only economic conflicts that have had rules of engagement.

Another comment from an adult. Also, let's not forget that the rules of engagement were imposed on the US army by that Kenyan pos imposter who should have been tried for treason and executed - for those rules alone.
Torq 32 | 2,999
11 Feb 2020 #118
Beside that, we have less muslims in Germany than Poles.

Yes, but Poles unfortunately do not multiply like the muslims do. :-/

US has not won a war since the 1950th.

Were Gulf Wars in 1950s?

Maybe you should buy equipment from a country that actuall wins wars.

What country would that be?

i have little trust in Poland helping us in need

But you said on numerous occasions that Germany is a giant, and Poland is a dwarf. Why would a giant ever need a help of a dwarf?

In NATO, poland is seen as roadblock against russia, to take the worst so the important countries can react before it gets serious.

That's what we always were - Antemurale Christianitatis. Defending Europe from the Turks (1683), defending Europe from the Russians (1920). That's what we do.
Weimarer 10 | 620
11 Feb 2020 #119
@Torq

Actually US lost both gulf wars. Iraq has become a iranian colony now. Something went wrong.

US could not even secure to get the multibillion € contract to build the energy grid. Germany got it. Trumps intervention failed.

As for helping, i cant see poland helping us. If we had a desaster or were under attack, i cant imagine help from poland.

To come back at topic, F 35 was not meeting german standards. Too slow, to badly designed, tol weak power stats so it was dismissed.

If poland has lower standards thats ok
Torq 32 | 2,999
11 Feb 2020 #120
Germany's in NATO and Poland's in NATO. In case of conflict both countries are supposed to help each other. Poland honours her alliances. Does Germany?


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