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Austria's swing to the far right on Poland?

Lyzko 25 | 7,009
15 Oct 2017 #1
If Kurz is victorious, I wonder how his victory on the heels of last year's defeat to Van der Bellen will embolden Germany's AfD, Poland, and Hungary. Any thoughts?
OP Lyzko 25 | 7,009
15 Oct 2017 #2

How Will Kurz' Victory in Austria embolden Far Rightists in Germany, Hungary, and Poland?

As Sebastian Kurz seems poised to become Austria's Chancellor in the biggest right swing upset in that country since the end of WWII, I'm curious as to how this will affect people like Alexander Gauland, Orban Viktor or Poland's PiS leaders.

Any thoughts on the subject?
mafketis 23 | 8,537
16 Oct 2017 #3
It seems that celebrations and pronouncements about the end of the right on the occasion of the election of a leftist president in Austria were.... premature?

As I predicted, nationalists are getting better in their presentation which makes (among other things) those who denounce them look unbalanced. The EU leadership is committed to a social and economic model that cannot work. Of course young people will turn away from it and freak the elders out.

I don't foresee any immediate or significant repurcussions for Poland (besides distracting the EU leadership away from worrying about Poland to worry about Austria.).
Crow 139 | 8,167
16 Oct 2017 #4
I like that Kurtz. But, interestingly, for information of auditorium here, when you say/write in Serbian: `Predsednik Vucic je razgovarao sa Kurcom` (President Vucic talked with Kurtz), it sound crazy and have crazy meaning. See, `sa Kurcom` literally means `with penis`. `Kurac` is penis in Serbian. `Sa Kurcom` = `With penis`. Crazy, isn`t it?

Does it mean something symbolically, I wonder. Maybe that mean that Poland needs to be careful when talk to Kurtz, I mean to `penis`.
OP Lyzko 25 | 7,009
16 Oct 2017 #5

Curious as to whether Kurz' victory will embolden European Ultra Right

Just wondering what members think about Austria's Peoples' Party and Sebastian Kurz as Chancellor. How it affect Germany, Hungary, and Poland?
peterweg 37 | 2,321
16 Oct 2017 #6
No, why would it. There is zero influence between them.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,535
17 Oct 2017 #7

There is a growing cooperation with various far right parties from the nations of europe. Sort of like the international socialists or whatever its called and other political alliances although of course the right parties are far smaller younger and less clout but are def burgeoning and are beconing a force due to a shift in populism and nationalist. I'll tell u more about it tomorrow and go into detail with the various parties around europe esp central and eastern europe along with their allies, ideological similarities, etc as i know quite a bit on this topic. Its already 11 here and I gotta be up at 5
spiritus 68 | 666
17 Oct 2017 #8
The problem is there isn't a credible "moderate right" party on the political scene yet-God knows we need one and the danger is that people will attach themselves to the far right as it's closest to their own views.
mafketis 23 | 8,537
17 Oct 2017 #9
The problem is there isn't a credible "moderate right" party on the political scene yet-

The problem is that departing from orthodoxy (that European countries must allow in and adapt to large numbers of middle eastern and african immigrants) is enough for the party to be labelled 'extreme'.

When did the idea that countries should prioritize the needs of citizens over migrants become so radical?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,535
17 Oct 2017 #10

Yes that's among the issues. But they gotta start somewhere.. Fidesz and pis may be even considered far right in other more western societies like France UK us Canada etc. Yet there they are seen as center right while groups like the narodowcy are more far right and reactionary

Lyzko I'll write thus later itll be a lot easier to do this from laptop than cell phone : /
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,535
17 Oct 2017 #11
Okay Lyzko,

So basically there's various groups scattered throughout mainly Central and Eastern Europe that would be considered 'far right' by more left leaning critics. Such groups include Pegida, Golden Dawn, AfD, English Defense League (which has many Poles in it actually), Worker's Party (Czech), Sweden Democrats, Ruch Narodowy, Narodowe Odrodzenie Polski, Fidesz, Jobbik (kind of defunct now) with Austria having FPO (Freedom party). Some more successful than others - some with little or no parliament seats and elected politicians - some with a dominant majority in their country's politics. These smaller very far right groups tend to ally with more dominant established groups like the narodowcy tend to vote PiS/Kukiz in Poland for example. All these groups do intermingle and communicate - especially the various Pegida and Identitaire groups. Amongst V4 nations and Ukraine, the 'far right' is a HUGE movement. We not only have our political parties, but also social establishments, civil corps, and our paramilitaries have been incorporated under the government answering to the Interior and/or are part of national guard. In Ukraine especially with groups such as Azov and Svoboda being the leaders and strongest. They run everything from military camps, to kindergartens, to youth groups, to the parliament and deputy positions. The leaders of this movement are especially interested in the idea of Intermarium. This movement has gained a lot of prominence in Ukraine and has attracted those in the far right to gain on Ukraine's experience. Academics, historians, soldiers, students, professors, lawyers, politicians, from all over Eastern Europe recently came to a conference discussing Intermarium. High level preliminary discussions between Ukraine as well as other countries took place at this conference. Poland is now incorporating the 'weekend warriors' into their territorial defense and national guard. There are over 120k paramilitaries who train every weekend and receive a small 120 zloty stipend or something like that for every weekend they come out and train. They are meant to be called up should a Russian invasion occur. Many of these 120k paramilitaries are also members of groups like the narodowcy but many too are a bit more centrist and lean towards PO. Nonetheless, they are all patriots willing to lay their lives down for Poland and because of that they are all welcome and it is an honor to be with them.

As more Europeans become concerned with issues like the migrant crisis, failed socialist policies established by Merkel and politicians like her, and a rise in patriotism and identity, there are more and more people joining the ranks of the right every single day. This is no difference in Austria than it is in Poland or Ukraine, etc. - it's just at different levels. While in Germany there aren't groups like Azov or paramilitaries integrated into the territorial defense, there are powerful political groups like AfD which performed FANTASTICALLY at the last elections. They will be a thorn in Merkels side. More and more people are now seeing that there is masses of like minded individuals and they don't have to hide anymore. It's okay to love your country and your culture. It doesn' tmake you a racist or an evil person.

Anyway, because E and C Europeans have long held more patriotic, 'identitiaire' sort of views long before the current state of politics this has only affirmed their strength and support. Hence, people like Obran and his Fidesz being very popular in Hungary just as PiS remains more popular than any other party in Poland. In Czechy, Austria, etc. society at large doesn't lean as far to the right as perhaps Poland and Hungary, but they too nonetheless are very weary of the issues facing Germany, France, etc. They don't want their culture to be destroyed and to have to deal with terror attacks. They don't want the needs of citizens to be forgotten so that new comers who don't even speak the language and many who don't even plan to work or assimilate can be helped. They aren't interested in this kind of stuff.

That's kind of how it is in Austria. Organizations like Pegida and Identitaire have groups in just about every single European country - including Austria. These groups cooperate with others like FPO which is the dominant right (arguably far right) party in Austria. Here's some recent news I found - it sounds like they're kicking a$$ there. Lets also not forget that when Italy threatened to send 100k migrants up north Austria said they'd deploy the military and refuse to let them cross into Austrian territory.

The one unfortunate thing is that many of these hard right parties still continue to scapegoat Jews. It is most likely because of the many Jewish politicians who tend to lean left - both in Europe and US. Hypocritically, they are oftentimes also Zionists. These Jewish politicians often though don't look out for the interests of the normal, everyday ordinary Jew living in Europe. That is one thing that the far right parties need to understand. The 'Jews' in government that they hate so much have screwed over not just them but also their Jewish neighbors next door. Like Putin said - It's good to have Jews around - it's like a form of insurance. Due to the fact that education is very highly regarded in Jewish culture and religion, it is natural that many Jews go on to more 'white collar' sort of jobs - which include politics. These parties really should consider allying with more right-wing, conservative Jews as the British Defense League or whatever they're called have done - at least at the high levels. Unfortunately though, such an alliance would dismay most supporters of such far-right parties.
OP Lyzko 25 | 7,009
17 Oct 2017 #12
As with the Trump upset "victory" here in the US, I feel simply that the advent of a new, emboldened rightist agenda nowadays, from Denmark to Russia, reflects a long smoldering empathy fatigue among an electorate gradually fed up to the gills with the problems of the disenfranchised in society. They want to finally, once and for all disconnect themselves from the problems in the human condition with which they'd somehow been putting up for thousands of years, and now, the far right has come back...once again on a new broomstick, catering to the impatient, defiant, yet passively demanding Millenials. They just want to relax and enjoy life! LOL

I ought to have seen it coming some time ago, in the early '90's in fact, when a New York TImes article appeared, "Even G_d Needs a Vacation", concerning the growing trend among even seasoned clergy of all faiths to shut down their cell phones, beepers etc. and stop fielding calls from those whom they considered "problem parishioners".

Pretty ghastly stuff.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,535
17 Oct 2017 #13
They just want to relax and enjoy life! LOL

the far right has come back...once again on a new broomstick, catering to the impatient, defiant, yet passively demanding Millenials.

Yes, but we also want to work hard, make our communities and countries better and safer, develop ties with our neighbors as well as citizens of the world farther away, provide for the disenfranchised CITIZENS within our borders, start funds to help developing countries and establish safe zones in conflict zones so that they don't experience a brain drain and so the dregs and low lifes of their society don't slip into ours, not be ashamed of our culture, history, and traditions and be proud of them and our descendants, grow the economy, get people back to work, spread our culture abroad and learn about other cultures, and develop a strong powerful military and alliances to protect the societies we have established and will fight our last drop of blood to protect. That's what right-wing millennial like me are interested in.

As with the Trump upset "victory" here in the US

Young people tended to support Bernie Sanders more so. It was split between Hillary and Trump. College educated millenials tend to vote Dem though. Trump won the 'silent majority,' Archie Bunker vote.. The middle class guys who don't talk about politics much but didn't like where their country was headed. Especially when you see the violence and idiotic rhetoric of groups like antifa and such. The older generations went through decades of Cold War to fight communism (or at least that's what the government and military establishment told them) so when they see young people carrying sickle and hammer flags attacking conservatives and shutting down free speech it freaks them out.
OP Lyzko 25 | 7,009
17 Oct 2017 #14
Oh, but the Young Republicans DID vote for Trump en masse! Similarly, it was clearly the youth of Austria who put Kurz over the top:-)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,535
17 Oct 2017 #15

True, Young Republicans did vote for Trump because they liked him and second he was the republican candidate. However, if you look at most polls the average millennial, esp college educated ones as a whole, they tend to vote democrat.
cms 9 | 1,271
18 Oct 2017 #16
So when you say "we" does that mean you are active in one of these idiotic Dads Army operations ?

Their anti semitism is not just "one unfortunate thing" - it is a very important part of their ideology.

But from what I have seen most of these morons are more interested in casual violence, cheap amphetamines and souped up cars than in real politics so they are mostly harmless and comical.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,535
18 Oct 2017 #17

I am in no way affiliated with the young republicans. In fact, I didn't even vote for trump. My loyalty first and foremost is to Poland.

Gotta take the good with the bad. In this case the pros outweigh the cons. And they're not actually antisemetic, atleast not the ones making the decisions, forming operations policies etc, they're anti Zionist. Yes those guys hopped up on meth are what the Soviets termed useful idiots. They are used as such since their numbers alone make them powerful.

Also the situation in Europe on the ground from the streets to the presidents palace esp in central and east Europe is far different than the us. There's similarities, but the Americans are unfortunately fighting a losing war but at least they're resisting.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
18 Oct 2017 #18
When you say your loyalty is to Poland, does that mean that you'd fight against the USA in a hypothetical war with Poland?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,535
18 Oct 2017 #19

Thankfully we don't have to worry about that as Poland is a NATO member and strong ally of the US Commander in Chief.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,038
18 Oct 2017 #20
does that mean that you'd fight against the USA in a hypothetical war with Poland?

C'mon, Roger. This is an old tune for a long time played by Harry
Roger5 1 | 1,458
18 Oct 2017 #21
Interesting, though. I wouldn't feel the need to be so evasive.
Ironside 49 | 10,375
18 Oct 2017 #22
I wonder how his victory on the heels of last year's defeat to Van der Bellen will embolden Germany's AfD, Poland, and Hungary. Any thoughts?

What? You have a very superficial view on politicks. Who cares about some Kurz, he is far right only in commie nomenclature.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,535
18 Oct 2017 #23

It depends on the situation. If Poland were invaded by say Putin and collapsed within 3 days making it nearly impossible for me to hop on a flight immediately to join the ranks of PL defenders and Putin would later install a puppet government then yes I would fight on the side of the US local partisans or any country or group that would want to give the country back to the people so they can hold democratic elections. If say Poland was being invaded though I would fight against such an invasion.
Tlum 10 | 155
18 Oct 2017 #24
Austria has been historically close to both Hungary and Germany (two opposing forcing right now), so who knows which force will prevail. For Poland and the current government it's good news.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
18 Oct 2017 #25
I wasn't asking about freeing Poland from Russia. Straight fight, USA vs Poland. Whose side are you on?
OP Lyzko 25 | 7,009
18 Oct 2017 #26
My view of politics is quite in depth, thank you very much Ironside, so quit trolling:-)

As a matter of fact, the Austrian election is a bell weather for what may well occur in European politics over the coming years!! If the lovely AfD party has become the THIRD single largest political faction within the German Bundestag, how can that bode better for the PiS in your Sejm, the far right in the French Parliament etc.?? Not too well, I fear.

Some boring backwater Austria ain't, my friend, but perhaps the crucible upon which the fate of conservative thinking in Europe might hinge.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,535
18 Oct 2017 #27

Straight fight

No such thing. No modern conflict is quite that simple. Should that happen though, I think you already know my answer.

Austrian election is a bell weather for what may well occur in European politics over the coming years

AfD party has become the THIRD single largest political faction within the German Bundestag, how can that bode better for the PiS in your Sejm

The thing is though Lyzko the far right in Germany is allied with the far right in Poland, Hungary, France, etc. We don't see ourselves as enemies. It's the same with the identitaires, pegida, northern league, or any other 'far right' groups. Our ideology unites us and we respect our unique cultural differences. We are all Europeans and we share a common goal of a Europe that works for Europeans - not people who have come in the last few years just to reap welfare benefits and refuse to assimilate. We're not looking for war but rather unity. If you want proof of that just look at videos of far right rallies in Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Croatia, etc. and you'll notice flags from other countries there too. Even among Right Sector/Azov or other 'far right' marches and rallies in Ukraine you'll see a few Polish, Croat, German, etc. flags among them. One of the main disagreement among these groups is whether Putin's Russia and the far right patriotic groups like Night Wolves and such are an ally or not..

Like Andrey Biletski said: 'It's enough for a person to have conservative values to be called a Nazi today.... quite frankly, I don't care what my enemies call me'
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,535
18 Oct 2017 #28

In case you don't know who the Night Wolves are:

They wanted to ride from Stalingrad to Berlin to commemorate defeat of the Nazis. Unfortunately, the Polish government stopped them at the border. As a biker, I was very disappointed with this decision. The Polish biker community petitioned the government to allow the Night Wolves to pass in peace and were even welcomed to club houses to be provided with food, beer and shelter along their journey. However, in cases like this the PL government was stubborn and unwilling to compromise. It's a Polish-Russian fight sort of thing so I can understand why they did it, still though I think they should've let them pass through.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,535
18 Oct 2017 #29
Also, by 'far right' I mean in a decadent amoral western socialist perspective... most of these parties don't view themselves as 'far right' or 'nazi' etc. They view themselves as nationalists and patriots - they support the idea of preserving their nation. That doesn't make them xenophobes, supremacists, etc. They have no problems with co-existing with other cultures, societies, ideologies. Once the socialists would realize that and quit trying to force their views on us and our families, we could all get along.
kaprys 3 | 2,415
18 Oct 2017 #30
Night Wolves admire Stalin. That was one of the reasons why they were refused to enter Poland. Was Stalin right winged?

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