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Austria's swing to the far right on Poland?


Dirk diggler 9 | 4,413
18 Oct 2017 #31
@kaprys

Not all admire Stalin as a person, but rather his victory of Nazi Germany and liberating USSR from Nazis. They were refused Poland over political reasons as russophobia is very common in Poland - especially in the government. They do admire the idea of the Soviet Union and say its biggest downfall was doing away with religion, culture, family values, Russian patriotism, etc. Modern Russia is a USSR 2.0.

Stalin was not a conservative. He really wasn't anything besides a power hungry calculating monster who killed more people than Hitler could even dream of. Nonetheless, it is very common for socialists to stir up nationalist ideologies in regional conflicts to gain troops to 'fight for their homeland' and help spread the 'revolution.' It happened in southern and eastern Asia, it happened in Russia, it happened everywhere. They especially do this in time of war and conflict.

The ideas of 'left' and 'right,' 'democrat' and 'republican' change with time, history, certain events, etc. The Democrats of yesteryear were firmly against abolition of slavery and were frequently members of the KKK. The Republicans were actually ones who fought to free the slaves.
kaprys 2 | 1,880
18 Oct 2017 #32
They rode to Berlin displaying red flags with a portrait of Stalin and shouting the Red Army's creed. And you seriously think that would have been welcomed in Poland.

It would have been both offensive and provocative. And if anything had happened, the Kremlin might have cried about anti-Russian sentiments in Poland.
TheOther 5 | 3,831
18 Oct 2017 #33
They view themselves as nationalists and patriots - they support the idea of preserving their nation

That's exactly what the Nazis said before 1933. I don't understand why you guys can't see the danger in the current shift to the far right in Europe. You really want another guy with a funny mustache coming from Austria to get rid of the migrant problem? Fighting fire with fire? Hold on for a sec ... I get the popcorn ...
Roger5 1 | 1,458
18 Oct 2017 #34
It's telling that in the land of the free you feel reluctant to say it.
Wulkan - | 3,251
18 Oct 2017 #35
I don't understand why you guys can't see the danger in the current shift to the far right in Europe.

I'll tell you why you don't understand, because you think that everybody watches fake news propaganda MSM like you do. Remember there is one red pill waiting for everybody, there is one for you as well.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,413
18 Oct 2017 #36
You really want another guy with a funny mustache coming from Austria to get rid of the migrant problem?

Yes - but more so the migrants that are a problem. Or at least putting a fence around them or sending them back to Africa/Middle east so they can be Saudi Arabia, Kuwait's etc or whatever burden, I mean 'enrichment' experiment... Well we don't want more to come in and cause terror attacks, live off welfare, never assimilate, spread their violent Islamic ideology, while socialist cucks tell us this is 'enrichment' - FTS... We're not interested in that and more and more people from all over Europe are standing up and saying enough is enough!!! That is why were kicking ass in elections all over and all the socialists can do is call us racist or xenophobic or whatever -ist and -ism they want. We don't care... At first it offended us but then society realized they call any conservative a racist so that word means nothing now.

It's telling that in the land of the free you feel reluctant to say it.@ Roger5

More worried about sociopathic posters here who take an online conversation and turn it into calling posters' families, jobs, friends, etc.

Atleast in US you don't get arrested and fined for talking about the problem of Islamic migrants and how they're causing problems in Europe - UNLIKE Germany, England, etc.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,413
18 Oct 2017 #37
Like I said, it's not Muslim migrants that are a problem as there's many who assimilate and are a true asset to society - especially the Kurds and Turks who are as liberal western minded (true liberals not this bogus modern day socialist liberals) as any Pole, Hungarian, Austrian, Scot, etc. What we don't want are the individuals that form hordes of ninja women and bearded men like in Tower Hamlets or the over 700 SEZ in France where the police and fire can't even come in to put burning police stations out because they're immediately attacked by the 'burden' - Merkel's term, not mine. France has been in a 2 year state of emergency because of these ********. The French women who live around Calais can't even walk around alone because there's nonstop assaults, rapes, and robberies by occupants from The Jungle (they should go back to the real jungle back home!). The British had to construct a protective barrier ON FRENCH SOIL because of all the ATTACKS on trucks going to England. These people have absolutely no respect for your liberal values - they hate gays, they hate Jews, they hate freedom of speech and yet you protect them. In fact, they're using your own liberal values against you - they say you should be tolerant of us and our beliefs in one sentence yet saying Islam will conquer Europe the next. This is why I compare the situation of W European society protecting the migrants who have ravaged their countries economically and socially via terror attacks, crime, rapes, truck attacks, massacres in concerts and restaurants, sharia patrols, SEZ's popping up all over Europe from England to France to Brussels to Germany. Now some schools won't even serve PORK, HAM, etc. because they're kissing the ass of people who just arrived - mainly to take advantage of the welfare system, while changing the society of citizens and residents who lived for years and generations.

That is what we're fighting against. That and people like George Soros who promote this destruction of western civilization and European man.

The only natural thing is to remove the burden and send anyone who doesn't speak a European language and isn't working and contributing to society back home - or make it someone else's burden and share it all around like Merkel is trying to do to Poland, Hungary, and EVEN AUSTRIA .

Again, let's not forget that when Italy tried to send over 100k burdens up north, Austria sent in the military and said AH HELL NO!

First it was refugee, then it was migrant... now Merkel's said it loud and clear - ITS A BURDEN
Ironside 48 | 9,844
18 Oct 2017 #38
Not all admire Stalin as a person, but rather his victory of Nazi Germany and liberating USSR from Nazis.

no, they admire Russian, Soviet or what have you imperialism and expansion of Moscow, is that left or right is that is under the guise of red communism or czar matters not. That is a characteristic mindless militarism and imperialism characteristic to Russia.

They were refused Poland over political reasons as russophobia is very common in Poland -

A what? What are you babbling about? If you don't like mosquitos and don't let them into your house for a very good reason does it mean you suffer from mosquito-phobia?

That's exactly what the Nazis said before 1933.

Well Nazi aid that is good to be vegetarian. Such you lock up all vegetarians? Nazi said that abortion for other nations than Germans is a good thing and should be made available to them. Does it mean all so called pro-choice organizations are Nazis? You need to be consistent, Cannot just chose one thing at random and ignore all other things Nazis claimed.

Hell, Nazis wanted United Europe - is that a Nazi UE?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,413
18 Oct 2017 #39
If you don't like mosquitos and don't let them into your house for a very good reason

Exactly. Polish government tends not to like Russians hence didn't let them 'into their house' because of

A what?

Say it with me now - 'Rus-so-pho-bia'

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Russophobia
Russophobia: fear or dislike of Russia or Russian policy

@kaprys
Perhaps some did, perhaps they did it in a historical context. Nonetheless, the Polish biker community was generally very supportive of them and wanted to let them pass, not only that invited them to their club houses. They came to celebrate Victory Day not to cause problems in Poland.

I'll have you know the Russian bikers on the other hand are supportive of our Rajd Katynski and welcome us in return.
Ironside 48 | 9,844
18 Oct 2017 #40
Exactly. Polish government tends not to like Russians hence didn't let them 'into their house' because of

Depends which Polish gov. post-commies love them and Putin. People above ameba like people (those that are not interested in politics) tend to be wary of the Russians that have direct ties with the KGB operative in charge of Russia.

Bikers are just gullible people.

Russophobia: fear or dislike of Russia or Russian policy

Wow that has it name? KGB and useful idiots really done a good job. Along anti-Semitism there is another useful tool Russo-phobia, Homo-phobia ect. Where is Poland-phobia?

Why there is no USA- phobia, Spain - phobia or what not?
Think or do you have a think-phobia too?
TheOther 5 | 3,831
18 Oct 2017 #41
more and more people from all over Europe are standing up and saying enough is enough

All good and understandable, but do not forget the lessons that Germany taught us in March 1933. It takes only a minority vote to end up in a dictatorship. Extremist parties both left and right of the political spectrum seem to be an easy fix at first glance, but you will always pay a price when you allow them to grab power. What would you propose should happen to the refugees and migrants that flooded Europe, and the large Muslim populations in the west in general? Round them up in concentration camps and deport them by force? Not as easy as ICE deporting illegal Hispanics, I can guarantee you that much.

Cannot just chose one thing at random and ignore all other things Nazis claimed.

Iron, you cannot deny the fact that far right parties are on the rise all across Europe. If you take a close look at their party programs/ manifestos you will soon realize that many of them are not that much different ideology-wise from the NSDAP before they grabbed power. It's obvious that this development is a direct result of the recent influx of migrants, but that doesn't mean that we should welcome it or take an unnecessary political risk simply because it seems to be the easiest "final solution" to a pressing social issue in Europe.

It's telling that in the land of the free you feel reluctant to say it.

Why?

fake news propaganda

Got anything else to add to the discussion?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,413
18 Oct 2017 #42
Why there is no USA- phobia, Spain - phobia or what not?

There is... 'Phobia' and -'bia' is an ending which comes originally from greek 'phobos' applied to all sorts of things - 100's if not thousands of various 'phobias.' It is a general term for describing something, someone, etc that induces fear, anxiety, etc to a person - i.e. arachnophobia, homophobia, astrophobia (common in dogs), glossophobia (often the most commonly cited phobia), hemophobia, russophobia, as it's known with Poles - Polonophobia

Bikers are just gullible people.

As a biker I take offense to that. It only shows your ignorance by making such an assumption of a large group of people which you have little to no knowledge about. I'll have you know there are people who ride on weekends that run the gambit from lawyers, doctors (the guy who leads the Night Wolves is a surgeon) and wealthy businessmen to mechanics and welders with everyone in between.

Think or do you have a think-phobia too?

It's called sophophobia. Look in the mirror first.

Any more ridiculous ignorant questions and or statements?

Round them up in concentration camps and deport them by force? Not as easy as ICE deporting illegal Hispanics, I can guarantee you that much.

Of course not. We just don't want these issues to spread to Poland, Hungary, etc. Germany, France, etc already made their bed and have to sleep in it. This isn't our burden.

No far right party is promoting any sort of 'final solution' for the migrants so lets just step back a second because that's not happened. What we want is our culture not to be eroded and to live our lives in safety, security, and prosperity. We aren't interested in governments caring more about recently arrived migrants who refused to assimilate than their own citizens - who include Muslims that go to work everyday and are peaceful law abiding people i.e. Turks and Kurds in Germany.
kaprys 2 | 1,880
18 Oct 2017 #43
@Dirk diggler
Yeah, they're such nice chaps. They even went to KatyƄ to pay their respects to the Polish officers killed there. And then waved their Stalin-adorned flags. Who gave orders to kill the officers?

I get it - you like bikers. But as a Pole I distrust organised groups with close relations to the Kremlin. Thank you very much.
Ironside 48 | 9,844
18 Oct 2017 #44
Iron, you cannot deny the fact that far right parties are on the rise all across Europe.

They're not far right parties. Those are people voting on these politicians who will carry out will of the people. Democracy is build on this premise. Thing is establishment generally speaking and politicians in particularly are not doing what they should, their duty - taking care for their own citizens, their own constituency, they listen to those who power and money and to an ideology.

So who is at fault those who ignore vices of their own populace, their constituency in the name of some shady deals and crazy destructive ideologies or those who are saying - hey vote us and we'll keep those millions of Islamists out of the country?

much different ideology-wise from the NSDAP

That is a hysterical overstatement. They all are different and they all have their own separate identity. There is maybe one thing that could be seen as a similar to Nazis overtone. They present themselves as victims but that factors is present in the mains streams parties and in the establishment as well. Don't they present themselves as champions fighting against discrimination, an oppressive patriarchy for rights ......().

Are they not in their rhetoric and methods(antifa, BLM) far from the NSDAP?
I think that are much closer than any of so called far right....

As a biker I take offense to that.

Well bikers seems to be overtly attached to the idea that all bikers are brothers and there are people out there who are will and are talking advantage of it! Facts and logic don't care about your feelings.

I know what phobia means. I'm asking you why it is that Russo-phobia is an overused expression like an anti- Semitism? While Nobody hears often about USA - phobia or Polono-phobia.

--Because both had a great lobbying. In Russia case by their secrets services. Everything when Poland react to some perceived or real Russian transgression - there is yell phobia. pff!!

I call it reason.
Wulkan - | 3,251
18 Oct 2017 #45
Got anything else to add to the discussion?

What do you want to know?
Wulkan - | 3,251
18 Oct 2017 #46
What would you propose should happen to the refugees and migrants that flooded Europe

Migrants deport, refugees give them jobs like cleaning toilets or sweeping streets, no free money whatsoever if they don't like it they can always come back where it's raining bombs apparently.

and the large Muslim populations in the west in general?

Ban islam so they can no longer be muslims, if they don't like it they can always go where islam is not banned.
Tacitus 2 | 876
18 Oct 2017 #47
Migrants deport, refugees give them jobs like cleaning toilets or sweeping streets,

The people in the low-wage industry would just love this... .
OP Lyzko 23 | 6,651
18 Oct 2017 #48
@The Other, I agree. While Kurz' Peoples' Party and Strache's Freedom Party are no immediate cause for alarm, their agenda over time might be something to keep an eye on. And you're right, Hitler too was grossly underestimated in the beginning, by both his enemies as well as his friends!!
NoToForeigners 6 | 1,007
19 Oct 2017 #49
Glad Austria is waking up! Sadly it will take many more to kick those EU commies out of Brussels and reorganize EU into a real union where all are equal and sovereignty isn't something unwanted and fought against.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,413
19 Oct 2017 #50
@Lyzko
Hitler was loud and clear from the beginning. Ever hear of a lil book he wrote in prison called Mein Kampf? No right party is advocating genocide or anything or the sorts. There's a few idiots (usually unemployed soccer hoolis) who say stupid things to media like we have a fanstastic camp called Auschwitz where we can put the migrants. Although it may get a few chuckles from members and supporters overall it makes us look bad and western media just love that stuff to paint us as some God awful genocidal maniacs. These people get a swift kicking, fine, or are expelled for such things.

@NoToForeigners
The intermarium movement is gaining a lot of traction. We may not get the sort of federation we want but were more than pleased with the political and economic cooperation i.e v4, 3 seas, intermarium conference, etc. Kick back and relax. There'll be no Islamic terror on our turf. We have way too much support from bottom to top. Other eastern and central European countries, namely Austria, are taking notice and say hey these polaks and magyars aint that dumb. Maybe we should follow suit. It appears their citizens are supporting those ideas.

@Ironside
In this case though we had no issue with individuals who wanted to attend their lil victory day gathering. They ended up going anyway they just left their jackets back home and hopped on a place instead of a bike. They support our Rajd Katynski we support their victory day. Its about reducing tensions and respect.
OP Lyzko 23 | 6,651
19 Oct 2017 #51
How right you are, Dirk!
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,413
19 Oct 2017 #52
@Lyzko

The right has definitely learned from past experience. We're not interested in becoming the fascists of the 30's and 40's nor the skinheds and KKK of the 80's 90's and beyond. Besides, in America the movement is more of a resistance that was emboldened by Trump's victory. The US has far too many people against conservatives - even those who don't have a racist bone in their body. It's very split and it's kind of unfortunate. There's states like Wisconsin, Texas, Alabama, etc where conservatives are the majority but in places like Chicago, California, Seattle, etc. its firmly a dem stronghold. The thing is though the liberals dominate the media and corporations (or at least go along with far left slogans and ideals so as not to have problems) and a lot of conservatives are simply scared to share their thoughts or express criticism. They haven't won yet though and the conservatives will resist as long as they can. The liberals appear to be winning for the simple fact that they're louder and have more media control while most conservatives are more concerned with just working and providing for their families than attending rallies, shutting down highways, etc. The right media is limited to the various web outlets and perhaps Fox and that's really it. The MSM really made fools out of themselves with all the BS fake news and other garbage - especially CNN during the election. Unfortuately though, the far right here that does speak out often ends up looking stupid when they chant things like 'Jew will not replace us' or calling for a white ethno state plus they don't have a whole lot of support from common citizens even conservatives. The more far right parties aren't too popular in the US and generally have an image problem. In Europe though its a bit different. Also, the US far right guys are much more open about calling for 'white ethostates' deporting all illegals, getting rid of all the Jews, sending blacks to Africa - stuff like that. The far right parties in Europe generally don't say such stupid things, save for a few low iq individuals. They do criticize Muslims and migrants but they mainly do so by pointing out the terror attacks and other issues in Western Europe which they don't want to spread into their own borders.

When Target announced a pro-tranny bathroom policy their stocks tumbled and the company lost 10% value overnight. I can totally understand why - I won't shop at Target anymore after that either. Now the liberals are targeting schools from grade school to the unis - you should see the garbage that passes off for a grade school explanation of the various amendments and the agendas being pushed. I don't want my kids to learn about homosexuality or trannies in kindergarten and first grade like has happened in many incidents in US in Canada - in which some teachers even admitted to pushing a certain agenda. Yet if I protested such a decision I'd be called a homophobe or whatever - perhaps my kids would even be taken away by a far left judge - just because I think it's wrong for children to learn about homosexuality at such a young age. Hell, I didn't have sex ed classes till like 5th or 6th grade or something when i was around 12 - it can be taught alongside heterosexuality but still heterosexuality should dominate the conversation seeing as well over 98%-99% of society isn't gay. What bugs me though is how much of the youth has been brainwashed by like these ridiculous ideas of 50 some different genders, that communism is good, BLM, and all this other nonsense. Things that use to be considered taboo, strange, weird, unsavory are now celebrated and people given medals for being 'brave.' Turning your penis inside out and changing your name from Bruce to Caitlyn isn't being brave. It's a mess. Well, we don't want this same type of society in Poland, Hungary, etc and we're making our stand. If the far left wants to have US, France, Germany, etc they can - that's up to them and their voters. However, we aren't interested in a society where our millennia long culture is eroded, our people replaced, our traditions and religion criticized, criticism of the migrant crisis resulting in fines and jail, little to no rule of law where migrants can torch police stations and firefighters can't even put the flames out without being attacked, generations living off taxpayer funded welfare and teaching the next generation to do the same, promotion of deviancy and destruction of the family unit - no we don't want that. We have no problem with living in a multicultural society with many different ideas, people, religions, cultures, etc. but we won't allow for us to become a society like France, Germany, etc. We won't allow newcomers to take precedent over our citizens and residents who have lived here for years and generations. If they want to assimilate, work, and contribute - they're more than welcome. If not, they can leave for Germany, France, etc and they can be the German, French citizens' burden.
spiritus 67 | 664
19 Oct 2017 #53
Dirk

I only hope that the sentiments you express (in line with my own) will eventually trickle down to mainstream politics and all this PC liberal crap is just a "phase" we're going through.
OP Lyzko 23 | 6,651
19 Oct 2017 #54
Hopefully, sanctus mal spiritus, the reactionary stench from the bowels of intolerance are merely a phase YOU'RE going through! And you people call yourselves Christians??! Christianity, the last time I checked, preaches unconditional love for ALL of G_d's children, even of those who transgress. That means, even when it hurts, even when it's not convenient, we don't fall into the trap of quick fixes and easy answers, merely to assuage your bad conscience, considering you have one.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,413
19 Oct 2017 #55
@spiritus

It will, but not in the us or western Europe. Too many cucks and feminazis voting for limousine liberals and shampoo socialists. This attitude of rejecting EU's immigrant quotas and far left values IS the mainstream in places like Poland, Ukraine, Hungary and of course Russia but thats a whole different scenario people call USSR 2.0 with nationalism and orthodoxy the creeds promoted by Putin and allied parties.

Sorry lyzko there's only so many mother Theresa's ghandis and pjp's to go around. Youre right our religion tells us to turn the other cheek. We all know how that ends up.. Its Christians who are the ones being persecuted, not us doing the persecuting like in the past. I'll never harm anyone that doesn't harm me first but I'll be damned if I'm going to let a violent supremacist ideology that is radical Islam blow up poles and ruin our country. The Christian way is being threatened by promotion of sexual behaviors that perhaps 1% of society participates in, undermining of the family unit, criticism of the church at every turn while nothing is said about the fact that homosexuality and adultery result in a death penalty in many Muslim countries, or are at least serious crimes. Yet Merkel welcomed people from these lands by the hundreds of thousands. Wtf did she think was going to happen when you let in people where gays are thrown in jail, imams preach conquest of white Europe, and God only knows how many of them were terrorists, criminals, perverts, radicals, etc. Hell if I was the leader of some sh!thole I'd give money to the dregs of my society to go to Germany so they become someone else's burden - just like Castro did to America. Earlier today I read a story on yet another migrant, this time from Ghana, who raped a German girl. Yet he felt he did nothing wrong and even said so in the court. He has his asylum rejected in both Italy and Germany yet no one deported his ass. This is everyday in Germany France Sweden etc and its almost always migrants attacking white European girls. Not to mention the terror attacks. Well we don't want their cultural enrichment or any other bs. We don't want the terror, we don't want the welfare state, we don't want the crimes, rapes, etc. Yet the EU is trying to force Poland Hungary and other states to change their societies where the majority of citizens are overwhelmingly christian centrist/right and reject forced migration from me and Africa. Its not our burden its theirs. Poland has offered to help donate money to an African development fund and establish safe zones in Syria (even though most refugees/migrants aren't Syrian anyway). That's not good enough though for EU. They're more interested in Soros proposal of flooding Europe with 1 mln migrants a year and giving them $30k USD. That would be the final nail in the coffin for conservative christian western man.
Atch 17 | 2,901
20 Oct 2017 #56
we don't want the welfare state

Actually there are plenty of people in Poland who DO want the welfare state. The popularity of the 500 PLN a month initiative would suggest that. The subsidy for having more children is actually a form of income support and income support is welfare. It's a cash hand out which will encourage the poorest people, who can least afford it to have more children whom, without government assistance, they can't afford to support, as in clothe and feed. It's too early yet to say what the outcome of the scheme will be but in the long term it could end up increasing misery and child poverty.

Poland has offered to help donate money to an African development fund and establish safe zones in Syria

All EU governments send aid to Syria so that's hardly a big deal. It doesn't absolve them from their further obligations as a member of the EU.
kaprys 2 | 1,880
20 Oct 2017 #57
There are a lot of people here who want the welfare state.
500+ is a bonus for most families and people appreciate it but there are lots of people who already get money from mops and 500+ and don't give a dam about working. And it's scary as some of them have a serious drinking problem.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,413
20 Oct 2017 #58
@Atch

The 500 plus program is nowhere the same thing as the sort of welfare state that the us, Germany, UK etc have where people can live their whole lives generation after generation without contributing to society and working - especially migrants. Accepting migrants was never something Poland, Hungary, etc agreed upon. We were never asked if we wanted this. One of the main reasons why PO lost and has less than half the popularity of PIS is because they kowtowed to the eu and agreed to take in migrsnts even though the vast majority of poles didnt want them. On the othet hand we cant get enough ukranians because they actually work and contribute and dont blow people up or run them over with vans.

Same with Austria - when Italy tried to send 100k 3rd worlders up north the Austrians sent their army to block them. Good for them.

Our government has said loud and clear - there is nothing the EU can do that will be worse than forcing us to accept migrants. 75% of poles reject migration from middle east and Africa. We don't want em. Not our burden. Merkel invited hundreds of thousands in its Germany's problem not ours.

@cms
No problem with them. We just don't want people to push an agenda that homosexuality is the norm in society when 1% of society partakes in such activity. According to the polish constitution marriage is only between man and woman but civil unions between gays are allowed. I find that a fair conrpomise.
OP Lyzko 23 | 6,651
20 Oct 2017 #59
@spiritus, nobody ever said life was always going to be convenient! Our own homegrown American former Chief Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes publically decried the keeping alive of "a generation of feeble-minded", as it could infect the entire country.

What he forgot is that those feeble-minded had no choice in the matter and never desired to be born, much less as brain damaged:-)

A tough decision, yet not made any the easier by rightist fear mongers peddling quick answers.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,413
20 Oct 2017 #60
Same with Austria - they knew that some of the 100k migrants that Italy wanted to send up north would stay. It's not Austria's burden and they didn't ask for any migrants. Hence, the military was deployed to keep unknown individuals from illegally crossing the border. If they had a EU passport, that's a different story. But most of these guys had just paid smugglers to cross on some barely sea worthy raft or boat just a few weeks earlier. Not our problem.

What Poland can do to help the migrant crisis is use a plane or two to help deport them back to middle east and Africa - namely those whose asylum claims were denied like the Ghanian who was denied in Italy and Germany, was never deported, and raped a woman and felt he did nothing wrong...


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