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Austria's swing to the far right on Poland?


Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
4 Nov 2017  #151
Well the red pilled Czechs have also chosen a populist Euro skeptic anti migrant party

Eastern Europeans see the migrant problem as a mainly German problem, not ours.

theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/21/czech-billionaires-ano-party-set-to-win-elections-andrej-babis
OP Lyzko 20 | 6,305
4 Nov 2017  #152
...and the Germans see the migrant problem as mainly a foreign affair, not theirs, thank you very much:-)

Rather much like the English calling syphilis the French disease and the French calling it the English disease etc..
There's always enough blame to go around, it's all simply a matter of those lazy bones in Bruxelles finally saying, "Yo, the Euro stops here!"
NoToForeigners 6 | 960
5 Nov 2017  #153
and the Germans

There's no Germans, Lyzko. There is no Germany anymore. There is The Great Califat of Germany.
OP Lyzko 20 | 6,305
5 Nov 2017  #154
Ha, ha! Sarcasm aside, Germany has tried to pawn off THEIR problem on Bruxelles' indifference as though Jean-Claude Juncker were entirely to blame for Europe's present ills.

Come off it!
TheOther 5 | 3,641
6 Nov 2017  #155
Eastern Europeans see the migrant problem as a mainly German problem, not ours.

It will be yours before you know it. Sticking the head in the sand and blaming the Germans is not really helpful, because it doesn't solve the problem. And voting in the far right is playing with the fire.

Germany has tried to pawn off THEIR problem on Bruxelles' indifference

That's why Merkel still says "We can make it", right? You do not understand the reality on the ground in Germany, Lyzko. A large part of the population is still willing to help the new arrivals (whatever you want to call them), but a growing percentage is getting fed up with the situation. Thus the success of the AfD. Nobody is blaming Brussels. They are questioning how committed some countries really are to the EU, and rightfully so.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
6 Nov 2017  #156
It will be yours before you know it.

Doubt it. Poles overwhelmingly reject forced migration from ME and Africa. We have no problem with taking in Ukrainians, Indians, etc that wish to assimilate and work. We are not interested in people who don't want to and wish to espouse their aggressive Islamic ideology. Many Muslims will tell you straight up that they wish to have Islam and sharia law in every country around the world. We don't want such people in Poland. There's plenty of other countries they can go to.

The fact that Poland only pays 80 euro or so a month for welfare has been one of our biggest blessings. Poland took in some 1k Iraqi/Syrian Christians and most of them immediately left for Germany because they didn't want to work and the welfare was too small. Very few remained, assimilated, and sought work in Poland.

The whole relocation quota is complete bs anyway. Last time I checked only 300-400 or so (around a year ago I believe it was) migrants have been relocated out of the 160k. They haven't been able to relocate even 10k migrants across the countries who are willing to host them in about 2 years - 1/16th of the total 160k number. How long is this supposed to take? Decades?

They are questioning how committed some countries really are to the EU, and rightfully so

Accepting non EU citizens into our borders was never part of EU policy till the migrant crisis came along. Poland abides by 99% of all EU rulings - there are certain things that are a red line for us.

"We can make it",

Oh they've really 'made it' rofl. Thanks to Merkel, the AfD is now a popular main stream party stealing seats from the parties who give preference to the needs of non-citizens who only came to Germany thanks to generous welfare over German citizens.

...and the Germans see the migrant problem as mainly a foreign affair, not theirs, thank you very much:-)

Then they shouldn't of allowed hundreds of thousands of migrants to come in and give them housing, food, and money then demand other countries help out once Germany realized inviting in hundreds of thousands of unvetted mostly young men from a vastly different culture who have caused tons of crime, terror, rape, economic hardship, etc. was a bad idea.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
6 Nov 2017  #157
because it doesn't solve the problem

Germany, France, and Sweden took hundreds of thousands of migrants in. That was their decision. Poland didn't want to, Po agreed to take in a few thousand and Poles wilL NEVER forgive them for kowtowing to the EU. That is why their level of support is LESS THAN HALF of PiS and won't recover anytime soon. 3/4 of Poles don't want them in our country, and we're not going to be like Sweden paying $100k A DAY to house migrants on a cruise ship.... The people who are coming to Germany are overwhelmingly young economic migrants mixed in with foreign fighters and families. It's too big of a risk for Poland to take them in. Besides, even the few Poland did take in they ended up leaving anyway. We prefer to take in Ukrainians who have a more similar culture, religion, and do not mow people down with vans, cause rapes to skyrocket, and cut off our soldiers' heads in the street.

Polish politicians are meeting with Iraqi politicians to discuss how the geopolitical situation is going to play out now that the war with ISIS is almost over. Poland and Hungary stated that they can invest in these countries to stem the flow of migrants and stop the brain drain. If we allow everyone to come to Europe soon half of Africa and ME will be knocking on our doors.

Poles and EU citizens have the right to enjoy Polish society. Migrants and middle easterners who are not EU citizens do not unless they are given residency/citizenship. If other countries want to give them residency or EU citizenship, that's up to them. Those people can come to Poland if they want as a EU citizen but its up to us who to let into our borders, put under surveillance if they think they may be a threat, and give PL citizenship.

Poland was created and fought for with millions of lives by our descendants for Poles to enjoy - not for some young dude from Africa or the middle east to live off our welfare, expect us to provide him with housing, food, etc. No, this country is first and foremost for Poles. As we Poles say, nasz kraj, nasze zasady - our country, our rules/way of life.
Ironside 47 | 9,613
6 Nov 2017  #158
Sticking the head in the sand and blaming the Germans

Is that your survival instinct?/ Did you use it while standing on tarmac? That would explain your posts here.
Germans are to blame for taking unilateral decision and then trying to shift consequences of that decision onto others. I do not see them being kin to part with the surplus of their coffers. There is no willingness to pay compensation for the war to Poland and only to Poland.

They are looking for a colony or a sucker. Get!

because it doesn't solve the problem

Man, in what way sending some of those people from Germany are going solve any problem? That might ease German problem with them but the EU is not about it. Me me me - that narcissistic buffoon like behavior of Germany doesn't bode well for the future of the EU. Germany inviting all those people has broken the EU law, and that has been confirmed even by a German court.

So stop repeating German propaganda, outdated propaganda at that.

They are questioning how committed some countries really are to the EU, and rightfully so.@ TheOther

They are repeating German propaganda. Committed to EU doesn't equal committed to obey orders from Berlin.
I think Germany are trying to use that issue (so called refugees) that they know fully well is not going to be implement as requested to try to force a crisis in the EU. Trying together with France to split EU into countries willing to obey Berlin and became sort of second calls depended countries - colonies, federati. At the same time forcing those which will not stand for it to exist EU.

It high time Poland's gov start planning for it.
Three Seas initiative and deal with USA could be a helpful assed in this.
cms 9 | 1,272
6 Nov 2017  #159
You are back ranting again about your cruise ship. 50 Euro per head per day - consderably less than the cost of locking up a prisoner in Illinois.

You know the difference between ancestors and descendants right ?

The same arguments about our ancestors building the country are used by racists everywhere but especially in Britain against Polish immigration.
OP Lyzko 20 | 6,305
6 Nov 2017  #160
TheOther, on the ground, off the ground, the fact remains that Germans are recalcitrant in believing they can ever find common ground with Syrian migrants, it's just that simple:-)
idem - | 135
6 Nov 2017  #161
. They are questioning how committed some countries really are to the EU, and rightfully so.

So opening borders to unlimited emigration without any ID shows commitment to UE?

As large part of German population is still willing to take more co -called 'refuges' it is part of TV/press brainwashing and propaganda in Germany and part of their eternal feeling of guiltiness.

WHY ARE OTHER COUNTRIES TO FOLLOW IT ?????
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
6 Nov 2017  #162
. 50 Euro per head per day - consderably less than the cost of locking up a prisoner in Illinois.

50 euro per head per day is no small sum... Like I said, if the Swedes decided to do that, fine. But we Poles do not want to host migrants in hotels, cruise ships, camps, etc. We have other concerns. We don't want them here in the first place let alone our taxes to pay for them to fart into a mattress all day long because they're too lazy to get a job. 3/4 of Poles reject migration from ME and Africa. We won't be forced into accepting something the vast majority of Poles is against.

Also, it costs 30k-40k USD a year to lock up a prisoner... its the same thing as giving a migrant food, housing, etc. Only difference is that the migrants aren't in a jail but instead in hotels, cruise ships, camps, and even old luxurious castles where they complain the free WIFI is too slow and the food isn't up to their standards...

You know the difference between ancestors and descendants right ?

Meant ancestors... Again, our ancestors built and fought for Poland for Poles - not for Muslims to come in and spread Islam while Polish people pay for their food, housing, and stipends.

especially in Britain against Polish immigration.

Well, in a way they have a point. If I were a Brit I'd be pissed too that hundreds of thousands of Poles came in. However, they eventually lightened up to Poles as they see Poles assimilate, generally don't cause problems, don't rape women, WORK HARD - unlike the muslims, and contribute to the society. We don't cause terror attacks. That's why even the EDL embraces Polish immigrants. Also, Poles fought for UK during WW2
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
6 Nov 2017  #163
Three Seas initiative and deal with USA could be a helpful assed in this.

Absolutely... hell Poland is even looking at economic ties with Turkey and Iraq lol. It's more evident than ever that despite Poles wishing to stay in the EU for economic reasons, we are increasingly concerned about EU's political dictates into how we should manage home affairs inside our sovereign internationally recognized borders. It's not just Poland either. Germany and Merkel's acceptance of migrants have effectively divided the European continent into those countries West of Germany (including Germany) having tons of migrants and demanding that others 'share the burden' to those countries East of Germany like Poland, Austria, Czechy, Slovakia, Hungary, etc who are rejecting forced acceptance of migrants.

If Merkel wouldn't allowed hundreds of thousands of migrants to come into Germany and other countries, or even before that helped Italy and Greece as well as Libya and Turkey to patrol the seas which no one wanted to do and PREVENT those migrants from going further north (refugees are required to claim asylum in the first SAFE country they're in - not travel through 6-7+ countries before they reach the welfare state of their choice), the EU would not be divided like it is today. It's that simple... we don't care this isn't our problem. These people need to go back and rebuild their own countries instead of leeching off the far wealthier and more developed Europeans' societies.... kind of like how Poland did after being annihilated in ww2 despite having no funds from the west and were the ones to first to depose the commies (only to have them join modern political parties later unfortunately and be paid retirement by PL taxpayers).
idem - | 135
6 Nov 2017  #164
However, they eventually lightened up to Poles as they see Poles assimilate,

Yes and no- PC causes frustration so the only people that British can lash out without being accused of racism are Polish...
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,664
6 Nov 2017  #165
the only people that British can lash out without being accused of racism are Polish...

what utter nonsense
idem - | 135
6 Nov 2017  #166
in your opinion.
SigSauer 4 | 413
7 Nov 2017  #167
@cms

50 Euro per head per day? Who cares if its 0.0000005 Euro per head per day. You people cheering on the cultural destruction of your own countries and western liberal values in general make me absolutely sick! Here is a hint for you, you might think of yourself as an "ally," and that you'll be rewarded for your tremendous virtue, but you won't. We have seen the radical leftists eat their own time and time again, and god forbid the savages and barbarians you people advocate importing to the west EVER gain power, you will be on the chopping block the same as the people who resisted their migration.

These North African and M.E. cultures are barbaric, and the people who come from there are savages. We are having this debate over the travel ban in the United States. Of course, not all or even a large percentage of people coming from those countries are radical. However, if even 1 in 10,000 immigrants from those regions are radicals, that is a number too high. I don't care that some 20 yr old Syrian falafel maker can't follow his American dream. NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO COME TO AMERICA. We care about American CITIZENS first, and we will give accommodation to people wishing to become Americans, somewhere about 7th or 92nd down that list of concerns. We HAVE to deal with the crime from American citizens, but we are NOT required to take even a 1% chance on foreigners who want to kill us. **** off.
cms 9 | 1,272
7 Nov 2017  #168
As I have said on countless occasions, wanting genuine refugees to be treated decently, in accordance with UN treaties and with Christian moral codes, does not make you a leftist. There are refugees in my own family and I think in most families in this part of the world. I don't expect to be rewarded for that view - it's just what we are taught in school and in church.

Like many Americans you seem obsessed by this idea and feel you have a duty to save Europe from some terrible fate. Rather you should look at this as a complex problem which will take time to fix. Your own govt needs to look at its own actions via a vis two of the main drivers - instability in the Middle East and climate change.

Like many people in Europe I see Trump as a greater danger to security than I do muslims.
mafketis 19 | 7,002
7 Nov 2017  #169
wanting genuine refugees to be treated decently, in accordance with UN treaties and with Christian moral codes, does not make you a leftist

No, it's being unwilling or unable to distinguish genuine refugees fleeing war and persecution from opportunistic bounders that makes you a leftist. For every real refugee that's come to Europe in the last ten years there are probably 10 economic migrants.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
7 Nov 2017  #170
bounders

You may be the first to use that word since about 1910. I agree that many of the 'refugees' are in fact cads and rotters, but is there a failsafe way to distinguish between them?
SigSauer 4 | 413
7 Nov 2017  #171
@cms

According to international law, they are to seek refuge in the FIRST SAFE COUNTRY that they reach. Now, if you want to go through the proper channels to change international law, then ok, but until then there is no case to be made for any of these people to be resettled in any other European countries. Yes, since my family is from Europe, and my fiance is Polish, I do feel the need to advocate for keeping the cultural integrity of Europe in one piece. I'm not some blowhard in America with an NRA t-shirt talking out of my ass, I live in the middle east.

You can want to do your positive Christian outreach all you want, it's not going to be appreciated by savages who are really only interested in what they can take from the west, as far as raping, killing, and thievery. If we were only accepting MDs,JDs,PhDs, and other professionals I really wouldn't have an issue. However, immigration is supposed to be merit based, so unskilled workers really add nothing to European society, these people are incompatible with our way of life, full stop mate.

@Roger5

Yes, the fail safe way is a wholesale ban on all of them, and then we will make extraordinary exceptions for highly skilled and qualified immigrants plus their families.
Harry
7 Nov 2017  #172
According to international law, they are to seek refuge in the FIRST SAFE COUNTRY that they reach.

What an amusing claim. Might one enquire as to the international law to which you refer? Unlike you I have actually read the 'laws' which you are talking about and I know what they say. I'd be most surprised if you could even name the 'laws' to which you refer, so I'll help you out and not only provide you with their names (the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and the 1967 protocol to that convention) but provide you with links to the wording of both of them:

unhcr.org/protect/PROTECTION/3b66c2aa10.pdf
unhcr.org/pages/49da0e466.html

I can't wait to see you quoting the wording of those which support your latest lie.

I'm not some blowhard in America with an NRA t-shirt talking out of my ass, I live in the middle east.

So you're not a blowhard, but you are a hypocrite: you don't want people from a non-majority faith in Poland but you yourself want to live in a country where you are not a member of the majority faith.

If we were only accepting MDs,JDs,PhDs, and other professionals I really wouldn't have an issue.

More hilarious hypocrisy. You don't have an MD or a JD or a PhD but you think you have the right to be an immigrant. Your own immigration is not merit-based, it's based either on offset agreements which result from selling people weapons they don't need or from your willingness to prop up vile dictatorships but you want to deny the chance to better themselves from other people based on their skin colour.
mafketis 19 | 7,002
7 Nov 2017  #173
the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and the 1967 protocol to that convention

See? That's the problem they are hopelessly out of date given the changes made in the world since then. They need drastic overhauling and a quick way to do that is for countries to refuse to get on board with their ancient and rickety (by now largely dysfunctional) rules.
SigSauer 4 | 413
7 Nov 2017  #174
@Harry

Lol.....Ohhhhhhhhhhhh Harry. It must be nice to live in a world where you can denigrate the people providing a national defense and the right to spew that garbage that you do. I work for the US government at the behest of the host nations. Until last year I worked in Ukraine, are you calling Poroshenko a vile dictator? I lived there during the election, and it was judged to be free and fair buddy.

Yea you conveniently left out the "and other professionals," part, of which skilled logisticians probably count towards that! Quite to the contrary of what you just said, I'm of European descent, and American culture has the same values that other European nations do. You would LOVE to make this about 'skin color,' because it fits your racist narrative, but alas, it isn't. It has absolutely nothing to do with skin color, and everything to do with culture. For instance, I feel quite the same way about Russians as I do about people from North Africa and the M.E.

I know this is hard for you, because you want to put me into some sort of box, as the people on the left are used to doing. You can't call me a racist, thats frustrating. You can't call me uneducated, thats frustrating. You can't call me uncultured, that's frustrating. Damn, looks like you will have to refute my points on their merits instead of trying to make this about me, personally.

P.S.- I almost forgot. Regarding the immigration law, you're right and I was wrong. I still feel the same way though, obviously.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
7 Nov 2017  #175
Claude juncker biatch timmermans cries uncle rofl:
express.co.uk/news/world/876415/Poland-European-Union-Frans-Timmermans-judicial-reform-rule-of-law

Unelected eu commission deputy: Oh please pis you're already soo powerful please listen to us don't ignore us oh please
Pis: in Poland, it's Poles who decide about Poland.
Harry
7 Nov 2017  #176
They need drastic overhauling and a quick way to do that is for countries to refuse to get on board with their ancient and rickety (by now largely dysfunctional) rules.

No, what's needed is streamlining of the existing processes and 'encouraging' countries to rapidly accept their citizens who have failed the asylum process (personally I'd favour Schengen zone bans for all members of governments and their families for all countries which are even slightly difficult about the process).

I work for the US government at the behest of the host nations.

So, propping up vile dictatorships and theocracies, no wonder so much care is taken to keep the local people away from your ilk.

You can't call me a racist, thats frustrating. You can't call me uneducated, thats frustrating. You can't call me uncultured

I can easily point out that you're a racist, as shown by your comments about seventh century barbarians. I can certainly point out that you're uneducated, as shown by the way I repeatedly school you on what is and is not legal, although perhaps you are simply not well enough educated that just lying is never a good idea. And your own words clearly demonstrate how uncultured you are.
SigSauer 4 | 413
7 Nov 2017  #177
@Harry

You are free to believe that if you want to be dishonest. 7th century barbarians aren't a race at all, that ideology dissects multiple races of people, it is purely to do with culture, values, and ideals. That is not in the slightest racist what so ever.

Second point. Because I've not taken the time to thoroughly research the laws on refugee/asylum status really doesn't prove I'm uneducated, just rather uninterested in knowing the particulars of policies which don't effect me, and with which I probably disagree anyway. However, I will concede to you Harry, uninformed would be a better characterization on that topic.

Third point, I've lived in several countries, and I speak three languages. I have a deep appreciation and love for Polish and Ukrainian culture. I have quite an affinity for the South Koreans also. Just because you're unwilling to engage in legitimate criticisms of culture's which hate homosexuals, denigrate women, and despise human rights does not make me uncultured, it makes you naive and obtuse.
mafketis 19 | 7,002
7 Nov 2017  #178
No, what's needed is streamlining of the existing processes and 'encouraging' countries to rapidly accept their citizens who have failed the asylum process

That's a very good idea but the EU at present as far too reactive and passive to even think about telling third world countries 'No!'. The countries would call them racists and colonialists and they'd fold faster than the Flash on laundry day.
Harry
7 Nov 2017  #179
Because I've not taken the time to thoroughly research the laws on refugee/asylum status really doesn't prove I'm uneducated

The fact that repeatedly make claims about what various laws (and 'laws') say when in reality you have no idea what those laws say and have made no attempt to find out what those laws say shows that you are at best uneducated. Contributions such as your uneducated and ignorant, at best, comments are a large part of the problem which has led to the swing to the right Europe has suffered from: as more people express ignorant, uneducated and bigoted views, more people think that it is in any way acceptable to be ignorant, uneducated and bigoted.

just rather uninterested in knowing the particulars of policies which don't effect me

You admit that these policies have no effect on you but you still think your view on them should be taken into account: is that ignorance or stupidity?

That's a very good idea but the EU at present as far too reactive and passive to even think about telling third world countries 'No!'.

That's entirely possible; however, the point remains that it would be far easier to make the current rules work than to draw up new ones.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
7 Nov 2017  #180
@Harry

Most of them are 7rh century barbarians, or stleast have beliefs and values counter to the western liberalism. Islam is an aggressive supremacist violent ideology. No other religion seeks to implement it's religious teachings by force all over the world and extort or kill those who refuse. Pick up a Koran if you don't believe me. In Morocco and other north african/arab countries young men 'practice' on donkeys and sheep bc they believe it will make their pecker longer and will make them a better husband to whatever teenage bride, up to four brides depending on husbands wealth, they end up marrying.

We Poles don't want them in Poland it's that simple. It appears czechy Austria Hungary Slovakia the Baltic etc aren't to keen on them either. Our countries our decision. Like our politicians say - in poland, poles make the decisions.

If it was educated Muslim families coming to work and assimilate it wouldn't be as much of a problem but it's the lazy dregs of Muslim societies coming


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