Now, do you seriously believe, I get off on discussing killing of newborns?
I didn't say that. You said:
What I don't understand is how some people have problems with people being killed in a war but don't have any problems with killing newborns.
I'm simply asking who doesn't have a problem with killing newborns
? Who has said such a thing?
In which case, of course you're going to be pro-abortion.
That's utter rubbish. What kind of a crappy term is pro-abortion anyway? I've said numerous times morality is not a black and white issue of "good" or "bad", "pro" or "anti". What I've said is that morality or "good and bad" "pro and anti" is incredibly difficult to legislate, and there is a morality issue in legislating (or forcing) unprovable moral opinions on another. Is this another of those emotive like "killing babies"? Pro abortion makes me sound like I want every woman to go out and have abortions. I don't, and I'm not going to box myself into any framework of thought by giving myself labels, if you wish to categorise the world, then you do that, but be aware; I'm an individual whom a label might not fit. I've already said that I want people to use contraception, the abortion procedure is (as it should be) a safety net.
What you don't like about my comments, really, is that *I have said pregnancy and children are good things*, and you think they are bad
Oh my God! Where do you infer this stuff from? I've made clear already in the thread that pregnancy and childbirth are personal and individual experiences, I don't think pregnancy and children are bad. I think pregnancy and children FOR ME would be bad, and by that logic, out of the 6 billion people on the planet, it's not unfesable that some think the same way as I do.. There is a difference, can you see it?
I think I am starting to see how your logic works.You say:
Pregnancy and children were good for me ---------------------------------------------------------> therefore pregnancy and children are good things for everyone
... so I will legislate it, no one must have an abortion.You *think* I say:
Pregnancy and children are bad for me-------------------------------------------------------------->there fore children and pregnancy are bad things....... so I will legislate is and everyone must have an abortion.What I actually say is:
Pregnancy and children are bad for me, but they are good for you --------------------------->therefore you do what you want, and I do what I want. Personal choice is personal. I don't force my wishes on to you, and vice versa.
make sure your personal choice is just for you.
I don't think you understand or respect that. If you did understand or respect my personal choice to fly off to the UK (with British citizenship), you'd also respect the personal choices of women,(young, poor or otherwise) of Poland, who do not have the option or the money, and are effectively having once form of morality forced upon them, who are made to go though pregnancy and labour (against their wishes - because we're talking about one group here), and are then given a choice of a) look after the child or b)stick it in an orphanage.
Poland has 80,000 children in orphanages - the highest in central Europe, housed in about 350 orphanages. With limited staff, the amount of attention these kids receive must be close to zero.
How many of you people pay frequent visits to the local orphanage?
I asked this on page one. There still hasn't been an answer.
If I got a woman pregnant I would intend on taking care of the child.
I am grateful that you would take on the child, and for some women you are right, the child and responsibility is the issue, in which case, more men should be as you are. There are far too many man that do a runner. However, for some women the issue around the whole "pregnancy thing" is the pregnancy itself, rather than the child or the responsibility.
If you got a girl unwillingly pregnant, and you wanted the child to look after the child, but for her pregnancy was the issue, would you also be willing to go through hormone replacement treatment for 9 months, have your body slowly contorted, and at the end of that 9 months have one of your orifices expanded to the size of a saucer and have a watermelon pushed through it? In solidarity obviously. Because if being pregnant is to be an issue for someone, I don't see how anyone would be willing to force the mechanics of it on anyone.
From what I've read of Gabi's posts, she seems very level headed and well-reasoned in how she's presented her opinions.
Thanks. I'm happy for you being here. I feel like I'm blowing against a sandstorm, putting up with all this speculation, and inferring is quite irritating. Thankfully, I realise that my opinion, whilst seeming to be a minority on these message boards it isn't that isn't that of the minority in Europe.
Just for balance.