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Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last.


PolishTraitor - | 20
7 Nov 2010 #361
they are not minorities

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that to you yellow people aren't actually humans and so they do not have human rights. Pity for you that ten of thousands of these people qualify for Polish citizenship. What excuse is Poland going to use for refusing to allow its own citizens to write their names in their own language?

However, in the case presented above the issue and solution is simple, either follow the reciprocity right and EU regulation or await the punishment !

Much as Poland will do for refusing to allow British and Irish citizens exercise their EU rights.
Litwinus - | 7
7 Nov 2010 #362
If one prefers to use Polish instead, then he should know that "Polacy" is the proper plural form of the word "Polak."

Agree and sorry - it was just a bit easier to spell in this way for me, anyway, i didn't learn english and i should learn the language first and only then to sign up here ;) . I mean, there could be more such or similar mistakes in my posts - sorry, ... and you know, my peasant blood and such... :D. What else one could expect from me :D .

I'm bored with this all, so i don't argue about anything, just want to give a link, in case one would like to read some opinion of some lithuanian polish (or polish lithuanian?) person (a text is in polish and i think it doesn't exist in english). The text was written some time ago, so if you have read it already - just ignore it :) .
Torq 32 | 2,999
7 Nov 2010 #363
Agree and sorry

No problem. We, Poles, are kind-hearted people - we don't bear grudges for a long time
(unless someone doesn't invite us to a victory parade, but that's another.)

you know, my peasant blood and such... :D. What else one could expect from me :D

Oh, come on - don't be so harsh on yourself. You are the elite of your nation - crême de la
crême (or cremas de la cremas - using Lithuanian spelling ;))

drauge.org/pogon/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id= 2 75:list-do-prezydenta-rp-bronislawa-komorowskiego-&catid=38:aktualnosc i&Itemid=27

Interesting article...
Ironside 49 | 10,305
7 Nov 2010 #364
we don't bear grudges for a long time

some do and some don't
ender 5 | 398
7 Nov 2010 #365
I would belive Mr Ryszard Maceikianec letter but not after watching this so called conference and reading post from this page: kurierwilenski.lt


Crow 139 | 8,593
27 Nov 2010 #366
Lithuania's Polish minority banned from using native language

an article

Lithuania's Polish minority banned from using native language

Poles in Lithuania say they are being persecuted for using their native language to spell Polish street names and even surnames. But authorities in Vilnius insist they are simply upholding the law.

Almost a quarter of a million ethnic Poles live in Lithuania. Warsaw ruled the land for centuries. So nowadays in some villages the Polish amount to over 80 per cent of the population.

Shop owner Galina Tomazsevska decided to make life easier for the Poles living in rural Lithuania.

She put signs in both Lithuanian and Polish languages in her store. But then authorities said she would be fined 200 euros for violating the state language law.

Crow 139 | 8,593
27 Nov 2010 #368
Lithuania’s Polish minority banned from using native language

i don`t know what is these days with Lithuania but i am sure that it must be that spirit of germanization which terrorize region. Anti Poliosh feelings coming from the above, from some official circles.

Back in time (during Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) Serbians (Racowie) were there in Lithuania to fight for golden freedom of Lithuanians and Poles, for the glory of Sarmatia. Serbs still have some influence here and Serbs should mediate in every Polish-Lithuanian misunderstanding.
gumishu 11 | 5,172
27 Nov 2010 #369
Tens of thousands of people in Poland are denied that right.

well I would presume it is because of the technical problem - the machinery used to produce Polish ID's (dowód osobisty and perhaps prawo jazdy) is probably designed to use Polish sings only

I think it is pretty similar in England - they don't have any diacritic signs in their alphabet- do you think they use all those special letters from around the world issueing their documents

(well perhaps it has changed in recent times and i mean very recent)

there are some obvious obstacles for introducing the multi-language set of letters for use in Polish documents - I don't mean the Vietnamese set of letters cause I have little knowledge of it here - but look at various others - look at those c's, s's and t's with cedilles -as in Romanian or Turkish language - look at umlauts of German, Scandinavian and Hungarian or those these all present a problem for Polish people to know how to read them or even are difficult to pronounce for a Polish person - and it is not the Polish people in general but authorities like say police or branches of various administrations that would mostly be presented with the problem - are they able to cope with that yet?

do you think this problem is solved in most European countries - I am not that sure - but perhaps you are better informed than me so I very much await your insights

this all is not to say we don't need to eventually introduce the multi-language sings use in all documents issued in Poland - we will have to live with that - this world is getting more and more multicultural after all

but then again even after all this there is still a question of those non-Latin writing systems - it is pretty obvious we need to transcribe these - there are several traditional Polish transcryption set of rules for foreign non-latin alphabets (or rather languages) - like traditional Polish transcryption of Russian, Ukrainian, Belorusian and perhaps Serbian and Bulgarian (not sure about these latter) - perhaps we need to abandon them and use European-wide system based say on the English transcryption - but some compromise solutions can be found I guess - like say English transcryption for other than Slavic languages -

one can also imagine a mode of issuing documents in traditional national (Polish in case of Poland) transcryption of non-Latin alphabets(or even other writing systems) augmented with the use of the non-Latin script as used by the person in question to denote the personal data (say just the names) to make them more universal
Crow 139 | 8,593
27 Nov 2010 #370
Kill all Lithuanians.

stupid statements from stupid people
Seanus 15 | 19,706
27 Nov 2010 #371
People like Sokrates see history from one side. He is likely fuming that the Lithuanian govt require Poles to use Lithuanian versions of their names. The history is far from easy and sometimes things like that happen. Poles have done well from Lithuania. Just think Słowacki, Mickiewicz and Piłsudski :) :)
gumishu 11 | 5,172
27 Nov 2010 #372
I don't think he meant it Seanus
some people have a peculiar sense of humour ;)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
27 Nov 2010 #373
Oh, for sure. However, we have to interpret what is written for what it is and he didn't even add a wink mark. If I were a Lithuanian, I wouldn't be best pleased. It adds fuel to the fire. Poles and Lithuanians really aren't so different on a global scale. No need for any war.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
27 Nov 2010 #374
I think it is pretty similar in England - they don't have any diacritic signs in their alphabet- do you think they use all those special letters from around the world issueing their documents (well perhaps it has changed in recent times and i mean very recent)

No, they don't. They'll use the standard English alphabet, and as far as I know, even Welsh/Scots Gaelic/Irish diatrical marks aren't recognised in official documents. I could be wrong, but I've never seen an example of it.

The thing I don't understand - wouldn't it be easiest for Poland to simply issue the Lithuanian Poles with Polish passports?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
27 Nov 2010 #375
People like Sokrates see history from one side. He is likely fuming that the Lithuanian govt require Poles to use Lithuanian versions of their names.

Heck no i just want a new PC and can't afford one at the moment, if we kill all Lithuanians there's bound to be some spare computers.

You really take everyone seriously all the time dont you Sean?

Anyway Lithuanians are asking for trouble, i can understand their fears because they fear Poland and all things polish like f*cking black pox but its time to move on, either they want a friendly neighbour or we really do start a diplomatic war, last time they tried it it didnt end well for them.

We dont want Wilno we're just asking they treat our people the same as we treat theirs, with respect.

If I were a Lithuanian, I wouldn't be best pleased.

If you were a Lithuanian i'd murder you on the spot, thats what we do.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
27 Nov 2010 #376
We dont want Wilno we're just asking they treat our people the same as we treat theirs, with respect.

Out of interest, did Poland ever sign an agreement with Lithuania confirming the borders as permanent, like Poland diid with Germany?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Nov 2010 #378
I figured you were joking but it's good to have confirmation of that. I often use winks and am not that serious on the forum.

Oh, come on, murders and general killings are part of the fabric of history amongst Baltic/former CIS states and Poland. I just don't see why we don't look for commonalities. The Koreas are making the same mistake now, letting bullying forces stymie their drive for peace.
OP pawian 170 | 11,331
9 Dec 2010 #379
Poles least likeable, say Lithuanians
09.12.2010 09:51
Poles are the least friendly of all of Lithuania’s neighbours, say participants in a new online opinion poll.
According to the survey conducted by Lithuanian web site Delfi.lt, 63 percent of Lithuanians think Latvians are the most likeable nation, as they also belong to the Baltic states and are similar to Lithuanians when it comes to looks, mentality and economic development.

As many as 13.4 percent of Lithuanians think that Russians are the most friendly neighbours and 8.8 percent have a similar opinion about Belarusians.
Only 8.5 percent of the respondents chose Poles as the most likeable nation.
“Lithuanians and Latvians have a lot in common but I decided to vote for Poles because we are bound by history and culture and Poland is a window to the world for us,” wrote one of the favourable respondents.

The poll reflects growing tension between Poland and Lithuania, with conflicts over the use of the Polish language by Poland’s ethnic minority in the country and the Polish-owned Mazeikiai oil refinery.

Poland’s Foreign Ministry described relations between the two neighbours recently as having reached an “all time low”.
As many as 1627 Lithuanians participated in the poll.

Torq 32 | 2,999
9 Dec 2010 #380
Poles least likeable, say Lithuanians

Well, breaks my fecken heart. *rolls eyes*

conflicts over the use of the Polish language by Poland's ethnic minority

Ultimatum. That's what we need to finally solve the situation (something like: "quit being
bloody nazi troglodytes in the XXI century and stop persecuting our minority, or else...")

and the Polish-owned Mazeikiai oil refinery

Is that a problem for them? Sell it to Russians then. One trouble less for Poland.
ender 5 | 398
13 Dec 2010 #381
Looks like some Poles are really unhappy with Lithuania.


Barney 14 | 1,472
5 Sep 2011 #382
There was a very interesting Irish language program on the BBC last night called Smuigleiri Leabhar (Book smugglers) telling the story of attempts to keep the Lithuanian language alive in the face of Russification. It made for some uncomfortable but very interesting viewing however throughout the film I had an uncomfortable feeling. A Lithuanian nationalist was lecturing an Irish speaker that he wasn't Irish cos he sometimes spoke English, making a case for the removal of Identity through cultural imperialism yet ignoring Lithuanian language policy towards Polish speakers.

youtube.com/watch?v=Safla4aCvnk
The whole film can be found on the BBC's iplayer type Smuigleiri Leabhar to find it.
Ironside 49 | 10,305
10 Sep 2011 #383
A Lithuanian nationalist was lecturing an Irish speaker that he wasn’t Irish cos he sometimes spoke English

Exactly, Americans can speak English and still be Americans, Swiss can speak German, Italian and French and it doesn't make them Spanish :)
Yet, one have to speak Lithuanian to be Lithuanian, what that says about their cultural identity, that there is no much more to built upon than the language, an artificial division.

What does it say about attempts to reduce Polish language in Polish Schools in Lithuania? In the light of above it means offensive move to by administrative means change children's national identity.
OP pawian 170 | 11,331
18 Mar 2012 #384
Members of ethnic minorities in Lithuania, including Poles, descended on the capital, Vilnius, Saturday, to rally against plans to cut back on schooling for minorities.

"The mother tongue is a guarantor of decent knowledge," the protestors argued as they marched from the Lithuanian parliamentary buildings to demonstrate outside government headquarters.

Children and teachers from ethnic minorities in Lithuania went on the march, and were joined by trade unionists from the Lithuanian education sector.
The protest comes one year after Vilnius passed a bill on education for ethnic minorities in Lithuania, which has been criticised by Poles living there, with other sizable ethnic minorities from Belarus and Russia facing the same problems.

Meanwhile, Lithuanian authorities are condemning the protest. Education minister Gintaras Steponavicius told the BNS agency that politicians are "amassing political gain at the cost of teachers and children."[/i]

narodowcy.net/tysiace-polakow-na-ulicach-wilna/2012/03/17/

Poland Lithuania

In 1940/50s, when Eastern Soviet Republics were created on the former Polish lands, Lithuanian authorities blocked the transfer of Polish inhabitants to Poland proper. Most of them were forced to stay against their will.

It seems Lithuanians today don`t want to pay for their past mistakes.

The mistreatment of Polish minority and violation of their rights by Lithuanians continues.
gumishu 11 | 5,172
18 Mar 2012 #385
In 1940/50s, when Eastern Soviet Republics were created on the former Polish lands, Lithuanian authorities blocked the transfer of Polish inhabitants to Poland proper. Most of them were forced to stay against their will.

it was not Lithuanians who blocked it but Stalin AFAIK - Stalin didnt want a land without people (because there were areas of huge Polish majority or nearly purely Polish - both in Lithuania and neighboring areas in Belarus) - in case of Lithuania Stalin also went for divide and conquer strategy - Polish population were quick to learn Russian and with the arriving Russian nationals formed a serious counterbalance to any purely Lithuanian social movements
Ironside 49 | 10,305
18 Mar 2012 #386
Do you realize that you are babbling ?
What purely Lithuanian social movements ?You mean while they have been part of the Soviet Union ?Everything had been controlled by Soviets and if not it was political movement in guise of social movement and it wanted to be purely Lithuanian for a reason.

Now, Why would Poles living in their ancestral land would form any cooperation with Lithuanian nationals? I remind you we are talking about Soviet Union ? What would be their reason for doing so?
gumishu 11 | 5,172
18 Mar 2012 #387
there was a partizan war in Lithuania against the Soviets like 1945-1950-something en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_partisans
Ironside 49 | 10,305
18 Mar 2012 #388
You are Polish right ? You want me to cry ?
There was guerrilla war in Poland after 1945 on much grater scale and in the lands taken by the Soviet Union as well.
Let me ask you again what it has to do with Poles on their ancestral lands? You do not mistook for the moment those lines on map called borders as indication where those Lithuanians fought ?
OP pawian 170 | 11,331
19 Mar 2012 #389
Dialogue of the deaf between Vilnius and Warsaw

OUTSIDERS find the Polish-Lithuanian spat the most incomprehensible in Europe. How come two countries with so much common history and so many common interests get on so badly? Is it just the appalling personal chemistry between some senior officials? Or is it, absurdly, about spelling? Poles in Lithuania want to spell their names using letters like ł and ę in official documents. (We can't use them, or most other diacritics, in the print edition of the Economist because our typeface doesn't have those characters).

I have not met any Lithuanian, even on the nationalist fringe, who believes that the authorities in Vilnius have handled this issue absolutely perfectly from the very beginning. Lithuanian politicians have habitually promised more than their parliamentarians are willing to vote for, or their officials are able to implement. It is easy to see why Poles feel cross about that.


More: economist/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/02/poland-and-lithuania
gumishu 11 | 5,172
20 Mar 2012 #390
youtube.com/watch?v=2RyX5vX9Qfs&feature=feedu

this video explains a lot about Lithuanian educational policies toward their Polish minority - the problem is not 2 additional subjects to be taught in Lithuanian in Polish schools - watch the video to learn more


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