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Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last.


Miloslaw 14 | 4,676
16 Feb 2022 #451
you're talking about Poles in Lithuania as if they're immigrants, and they're not

So what are they then?
Please don't say settlers, because in my book, they are voluntary immigrants.

Minority politics

What the hell is that?
What rights do minorities have when they settle in a new country except to accept the morals, rules and customs of their chosen country?

the Serbian model

Anything Serbian is always a poor choice.....
mafketis 34 | 12,539
16 Feb 2022 #452
So what are they then?

People who have been there since long before the borders were drawn. They're more like the Welsh in Wales... rather than protestants in Northern Ireland... (noted for their lack of integration into their new country.... awful immigrants they turned out to be....)

Anything Serbian is always a poor choice....

Very true, although the reasoning (according to an interview I read years ago with a Lithuanian) was that Polish culture was a bigger threat because it was more attractive (Lithuanian nobility had a track record self-polonisation). Russian culture on the other hand was alien and imposed so in that respect wasn't as threatening....
Miloslaw 14 | 4,676
16 Feb 2022 #453
Russian culture on the other hand was alien and imposed so in that respect wasn't as threatening....

Strange, I have read the opposite, that Lithuanian's were not for the Soviets and Lithuanian Poles supported them.

People who have been there since long before the borders were drawn

So what?
I don't see your point.
They had a choice.
Stay and integrate or return to Poland.
Why all this fuss?
Bobko 11 | 1,119
16 Feb 2022 #454
i would be to embarrassed to admit to being a Pole, as I find Russia embarrassing and semi-civillised.

Sorry for responding to a ten year old post! Just slowly working my way through another Pawian thread that's been reignited. I just thought this a curious sentiment - since if you conducted a global poll, most responses to the question of "who I would rather be" would probably be "A Russian" rather than "A Pole". Maybe this can inform how Lithuanians feel when Poles call them a "peasant republic"?
OP pawian 194 | 19,860
16 Feb 2022 #455
would probably be

That is the key phrase your post. I appreciate your honesty. :):):)
mafketis 34 | 12,539
16 Feb 2022 #456
Stay and integrate

To what degree? Should they learn Lithuanian (as they currently do)? They should completely leave Polish behind? why?

Are you against the Welsh speaking Welsh in Wales? If so..... why?
Bobko_V - | 18
16 Feb 2022 #457
@pawian

Ok, maybe with all the business about Syria and Ukraine perhaps there is less appetite for Russians around the world (Orban, Bolsonaro, and Trump fans might disagree). However, as far as what country provided more cultural contributions to the world, or of which country it is less embarassing to be a citizen of - I would still guess people would answer Russia, and that is if they even knew anything about Poland beyond the fact that it exists somewhere in Europe.

My point in this is not to be insulting towards Poles and Poland. It just seems to me, when reading the early posts from 2010, that SeanBM and some other people were trying to explain to Poles that the Polish-Lithuanian dynamic is nearly a mirror version of the Russian-Polish dynamic. Lithuania does not enjoy being squeezed between Russia and Poland just as much as Poland does not enjoy being between Russia and Germany. Chauvinist and imperialistic attitudes towards Lithuanians as descendants of stupid peasants, mirrors the same attitude Russians have towards Poles - which is typically an incomprehension of why Poles keep moaning.

That is, look at yourself first, before finding fault with another.

It's just the same story of a bigger country feeling disrespected by little country.
Oathbreaker 4 | 493
17 Feb 2022 #458
@mafketis
Some type of people have the opinion that all Swiss should be talking German etc, everyone living in Lithuania, speaking Lithuanian etc.

If Cornwall started to exist as a country they would argue that every person in Cornwall should speak Cornwallian! :)

@Bobko_V
Tell an Englishmen that americans are men of culture and gentlemen :)

You could become an comedian! That's how incomprehensable you seem to be! I ain't interested in lying for sake of appearances of Russian or Lithuanian delusions!
OP pawian 194 | 19,860
17 Feb 2022 #459
I would still guess people would

Still guessing?? You are incorrigible, indeed. hahaha Stop it coz it is infantile and useless.

mirrors the same attitude Russians have towards Poles

Still guessing? Or lying consciously now. Which one? :):):)

as Poland........ Germany.

German Poles enjoy all the privileges of a minority in Poland that are denied to Lithuanian Poles.

That is, look at yourself first, before finding fault with another.

Yes, I am looking at the Polish protection of minority rights and can see that Germans or Lithuanians have their town signs written in their languages. It is just one example. Lithuanian Poles can`t have it.

why Poles keep moaning.

It isn`t moaning, it is only demanding the respect for minority rights which are obvious in the EU. Lithuania breaks the European law. Simple.


  • German signs in Poland

  • Lithuanian signs in Poland
sraaaaleeeec
17 Feb 2022 #460
"german poles enjoh..." bla bla bla

not ukrainians doe. theyre treated like second class citizens or garbage.
OP pawian 194 | 19,860
17 Feb 2022 #461
not ukrainians doe

This thread is primarily about Poles and Lithuanians. If you want to discuss Ukrainians, do it in another thread, darling.
Crow 160 | 11,025
18 Feb 2022 #462
primarily about

`Primarily` should be taken as quite elastic term by intelligent people. Usually, discussion develop.
mafketis 34 | 12,539
18 Feb 2022 #463
primarily about Poles and Lithuanians

But not exclusively!

Here's an interesting story, children of Belarusians in Poland want to go to school with children from the Polish Belarusian minority but they can't because minority language education is only for citizens....

regiony.rp.pl/spolecznosci-lokalne/art35673241-bialystok-prosi-o-pieniadze-na-lekcje-bialoruskiego
Crow 160 | 11,025
18 Feb 2022 #464
but they can't because minority language education is only for citizens....

stupid law
Bobko 11 | 1,119
18 Feb 2022 #465
Stop it coz it is infantile and useless

Dear Pawian, just because something seems preposterous to you, does not immediately mean that the messenger is a troll. You have accused me in the past of being some Russian or Ukrainian apologist, but really the reason I write mostly on topics concerning those countries is because I am submerged in their media, and have extensive work experience there. With few exceptions, those voices are missing here. In the past there were some Russians, but now it looks like Vlad may be the only person from the East.
OP pawian 194 | 19,860
18 Feb 2022 #466
You have accused me

Anything is possible coz so many things happen in the forum. However, I don`t remember such occurences. Our exchanges are too rare. Not my fault. :):):)

something seems preposterous to you

I found your guessing preposterous. Give me hard statistics, polls, research and we can talk. Guessing is more suitable for fun threads in which we show images of the Witcher or his Dame, Yennefer, and ask members who they can see. Do you mean what I understand??? hahaha
dupajedna
20 Feb 2022 #467
for pawian:

onet.pl/kultura/onetkultura/syrop-z-popiolu-wygnani-z-akcji-fragment-ksiazki-pawelsmolenski/8m21vs5,681c1dfa

youre a bit of a hypocryte arent ya you and the Polish?
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,846
20 Feb 2022 #468
the Polish-Lithuanian dynamic is nearly a mirror version of the Russian-Polish dynamic.

Which of course it is not. Whoever they were they were wrong to claim that.

from the Polish Belarusian minority but they can't because minority language education is only for citizens....

I think it us a logical and sound. That service is for those Polish citizen that are minority. Immigrants shouldn't claim that status unless the came with a large chunk of land.
mafketis 34 | 12,539
21 Feb 2022 #469
Immigrants shouldn't claim that status

Well Poland has invested a _lot_ into Belarusian (a language most Belarusians don't care for....) so I'm not sure how much sense it makes to keep it from those who do want it (especially if there's a good chance they'll return to Belarus afer some future regime change...

Or maybe the Polish government wants them to stay and to make it harder for them to leave at some future time?
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,846
22 Feb 2022 #470
Or maybe the Polish government wants them to stay

I think there is no way for them to go back, at least for majority of them.
mafketis 34 | 12,539
22 Feb 2022 #471
no way for them to go bac

At present, but after Lukashenka is deposed.... (I think that'll be sooner than most people think).
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,846
22 Feb 2022 #472
At present, but after Lukashenka is deposed...

Still, that country will remain in Russian zone of influence. Would they want to go back to a country Russia 0,5.
OP pawian 194 | 19,860
26 Feb 2022 #473
which country it is less embarassing to be a citizen of - I would still guess people would answer Russia,

Are you sure???? :):):)



Bobko 11 | 1,119
27 Feb 2022 #474
Hahaha, you dog! How could I know then? :))
Crow 160 | 11,025
27 Feb 2022 #475
Now when Russians moved Lithuanians would probably offer petting to Poland.
Crow 160 | 11,025
28 Feb 2022 #476
Lithuania is a proxy state that is germanized and nazified by EU/NATO (Germany) and represent problem to Poland in a similar way Ukraine represent problem to Russia. Its not the same situation because Ukraine is Slavic and Russians originate from Kievan Rus but regarding societal ideology that guide modern day Lithuania and Ukraine example is absolutely valid. Plus, Poland and Lithuania share their statehood, so in a some way Lithuania stand to Poland as Ukraine do stand to Russia. One can`t separate Lithuania from Poland or even put Lithuania on a path of collision with Poland expecting Poland not to react.
OP pawian 194 | 19,860
28 Feb 2022 #477
Poland expecting Poland not to react.

Now, in this troubled times when Russ-Asian savages are trying to destroy a European country, all tensions between Poland and Lithuania evaporate into thin air. We have to stand united against the beasts from the East.
Miloslaw 14 | 4,676
28 Feb 2022 #478
Now, in this troubled times when Russ-Asian savages are trying to destroy a European country, all tensions between Poland and Lithuania evaporate into thin air

Agreed!
Novichok 2 | 7,652
28 Feb 2022 #479
Now, in this troubled times when Russ-Asian savages are trying to destroy a European country,

In these troubled times...
Why would these "savages" want to do it? What is their end objective? Would be like the US not liking Canada as Russia's ally?
Miloslaw 14 | 4,676
28 Feb 2022 #480
Why would these savages want to do it? What is their end objective?

Rich, why are you trying to figure out what Russian savages are thinking?
There is no logic to their thinking.
They are just terrified of "The great leader" and so they need to grow some, admittedly some very big ones.....


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