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Why Do You Love Poland?


polishinvestor 1 | 362
16 Jul 2018 #781
Some IPO's in Poland are no different to others in developed markets. If the company coming to market is or close to ex-growth, its not going to do well (Play). But you should be able to work this out. Some do, others don't. Doesn't have to come down to experience, but that can often help if you have a nose. There are a few good dividend plays with poss future growth bonuses on the WIG, but timing, as always, is the key to whether you end up under or outperforming.

Yes you can often place Poles at a certain point on the spectrum, but there are scammers everywhere, in every country. If you don't do due diligence, eventually someone will take you for a ride. That goes for any business you care to think of in any country in the world. Assumption is the mother of all f**k-ups. Expect the worst until you have proven otherwise. Don't assume, confirm. When purchasing property you should make the same demands as does a bank when approach by a person asking for finance. If the seller refuses, walk away. They usually come back with their tail between their legs. But if not, there are so many opportunities to go for. There is a reason why yields here are higher than in the developed West and you can't dispel all of the risk, but there is no reason to disadvantage yourself when investing here by not doing due diligence.

Problem is that people get hustled once and never go back to that person or company again

Cash in hand today is more important. Tomorrow is another day. That's the mindset. But again, its something entirely to be expected. Use this shortsightedness when dealing.
Crow 139 | 8,642
16 Jul 2018 #782
Why love for Poland?

One must love his people. I don`t know for other way. Some knows but I don`t.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,936
17 Jul 2018 #783
not doing due diligence

Never lend the gardener 50zl, you will never see him again.
Ironside 49 | 10,353
17 Jul 2018 #784
Never lend the gardener 50zl,

Same gardener you found lol! Next time look for a proper gardener not some jack -of all trades. But, but that could cost you a buck or two..
dolnoslask 5 | 2,936
17 Jul 2018 #785
Next time look for a proper gardener

can't find em you don't even see ads for people that do gardening where I am, hey 20zl an hour aint bad money for sitting on a mower and strimming.
Ironside 49 | 10,353
17 Jul 2018 #786
can't find em you don't even see ads for people that do gardening where I am

Where are you? Could you be more specific than dolnoslask?

On the other hand, there is no point in setting up a company that would attend to gardening for the initial cost and a tax on a labour. That is quite a disgrace and something that PIS allegedly 'a good change' won't even address. boo!
delphiandomine 85 | 18,270
17 Jul 2018 #787
Nonetheless though much of the ownership in wig30 companies is foreign especially german

Not really.

Alior - effectively under the control of PZU, which is under the control of the government.
Asseco - mostly OFE funds (which are Polish)
BZWBK - Santander of Spain
CCC - Polish, under effective control of Dariusza Miłka.
CDProjekt - Polish, with around 10% held by Dutch and Swedish insurance concerns
Cyfrowy Polsat - Polish, controlled by Solorz-Żak.
Dino - Polish, controlled by Tomasz Biernacki
ENEA - state-controlled
Energa - state controlled
Eurocash - Portuguese controlled
Grupa Azoty - state-controlled
ING - Dutch
JSW - state-controlled
Kernel Holding - Ukrainian (I think...?)
KGHM - state controlled
Kruk - wide range of pension funds, including many Polish OFE and also Polish insurance funds
Lotos - state-controlled
LPP - wide range of pension funds, including many Polish OFE and also Polish insurance funds
mBank - Commerzbank AG
Millennium - Portuguese bank
Orange - France Telecom
PEKAO - state-controlled
PKO - state-controlled
PGE - state-controlled
PGNiG - state-controlled
Orlen - state-controlled
PKP Cargo - PKP S.A. is the dominant shareholder (state-controlled) with Polish OFE funds making up the rest
Play - two Luxembourg-based funds with the rest held by private shareholders and Polish OFE funds
Tauron - state-controlled

Only one company out of 30 is owned by a German company. Only 7 out of 30 companies are controlled by foreign owners. The WIG30 is actually heavily under government control, and if the plan goes ahead to seize the OFE funds, then the WIG30 will be effectively run by the government. That's why the WSE is declining in popularity, because no-one wants to risk their money in companies that could be nationalised tomorrow.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,553
17 Jul 2018 #788
Yes many companies are state owned or the state is majority shareholder. Nonetheless 2/3 of capital in Poland is foreign which isn't a bad thing but the government and a lot of poles as well want certain sensitive sectors to be in polish hands
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
17 Jul 2018 #789
Delph - don't you think those 51 percent state controlled companies will be swallowed up by global players eventually? How can they raise enough capital investment for infrastructure going forward when the state holds them back, under the guise of expansion through diversification - and why should we the taxpayers be held accountable?

Mystified.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,553
17 Jul 2018 #790
state holds them back

Pis has had far better macro and microeconomic policies than p.o.. Just look at how LOT performed under p.o. when they wanted to sell it off to Turks till pis took over and it became profitable again
delphiandomine 85 | 18,270
17 Jul 2018 #791
Nonetheless 2/3 of capital in Poland is foreign

Which capital are we referring to? The biggest players on the financial market are all state-controlled, and the OFE funds can only be used for Polish investments, not foreign ones, regardless of the owner of the OFE fund in question.

As for Poles that want that, they're mostly people who don't understand how business works. Poles are financially illiterate, and they have no idea that a company such as Orlen in the hands of a good American company such as Chevron would actually be better for Poland in the long run, as it would be run by professionals, not political cronies.

Mystified.

Likewise. The only reason they're still state controlled is because they're a valuable source of jobs for political cronies.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
17 Jul 2018 #792
I treat it as one big game especially the bureaucracy

Idiotic post, if I may say so. It might be a game for you, but that joker would get my steel boot up his arse. Then we would see whose laughing. It must be fun living in your village if you're retired, but your scenario wouldn't be so amusing for those of your neighbours who don't have the time for being messed about.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,553
17 Jul 2018 #793
True, but then it would be foreigners running a polish company, not poles. Poles would rather maintain control than just hand something off just to make a few more bucks. Profit is not always the end all, there's other considerations.

Poles are financially illiterate

Considering Poland has been totally transformed in the past 3 decades and is now a wealthy developed country with the 8th largest eu economy and top eastern bloc economy were doing something right. The economy is doing better than it ever has.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,936
17 Jul 2018 #794
your neighbours who don't have the time for being messed about.

Who is messing the neighbours about, we get on just fine thanks, If I want to have fun in Poland I will do so without some Poland hating riff raff expat threatening to put a boot up my arse. thanks.
cms neuf - | 1,599
18 Jul 2018 #795
But is it possible that sone of your problems dealing with Poles and always feeling they will rip you off, cones from the way you comport yourself - You seem suspicious of outsiders, Get upset about small things,Focus very much on your own wealth, and if you call people riff raff that would indicate that you feel superior.

I haven't really had any more problems dealing with locals here than I have been in the other country - the people I'm not inherently out to cheat you, the business culture is obviously developing and people get more experienced and build long-term relationships.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,936
18 Jul 2018 #796
But is it possible that sone of your problems dealing with Poles

Hey I am just telling you how it is in a small village far far away from the big cities, when I arrived five years ago I was warned by a number of neighbours and the previous owners of the farm to watch my back especially when it came to a certain list of individuals, all this has been proved right over the years, I have also seen people move in then move out due to the hassle of the petty idiocy that goes on around here.

Where I am, many of the able have gone abroad to work, we are left with elderly farmers young mothers with husbands abroad and a swathe of dunks and kids on narcotics,

By the way I am Polish albeit I was born in England spent most of my life in the UK and working abroad,

Having said the above we have a good community of neighbours here which comprises of Brit expat retirees/businessmen and local Polish people doctors, vets policemen and councillors and we get together on a regular basis drinking and barbecuing, these guys would agree with my comments.

the business culture is obviously

Not here not by any stretch of the imagination, the only thing that has grown in five years is the number of supermarkets

Again I love it here, without all the entertainment it would be boring and too quiet here.

At least I am not like the Poland hating troll Dougpol1, just search for his user Id and the word scum in polanda.com you will see what I mean.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
18 Jul 2018 #797
Poland hating troll Dougpol1

At least I'm not as smug as you Dolno. Not brainwashed either - probably because I know Poland better than you seem to. And I refuse to believe that Brits are living the "good life" down on the Polish farm. There is no way that Brits would put up with retiring to the catholicity and tedium of a western Polish village - obviously you mean those of Polish descent like yourself....... For the rest of us, the entreaties and threats of the local priest to "assimilate"into parish life, or rather, join the congregation, would no doubt end in the newcomer offering to punch him on the snout

And what's more Dolno, sorry that you don't like it, but I have contributed more than enough to have my say in Polish politics - more than you on that score. Employed status ZUS for 7 years, plus 1,400 zl in ZUS a month for 22 years, and employer ZUS for 15, is.........let's see..................that little lot would buy a house of some size in your village.........

So , in the meantime, to reiterate, in case you didn't get it, this Poland that you misguided souls are building is sending you back in time to the past, which is only glorious in children's history books, and those same children will be left to pick up the bill.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
18 Jul 2018 #798
The way the tax system and way of doing business is set up in Poland, it really doesn't pay to invest in smaller towns and villages, hence they are forgotten and this leads to those capable of working leaving, while leaving the rest behind. This rest comprises of drunks, elderly, young wasters and in certain villages gypsies. For those without money its a trap they cant get out of and many dont even want to. Those older foreigners, or retirees for big cities with money, can enjoy the views and activities that Jelenia Gora and Karpacz have to offer, but they dont need to mix with the riff raff unless forced to go to the town squares to the urzad miasta to arrange something.
Ironside 49 | 10,353
18 Jul 2018 #799
hence they are forgotten and this leads to those capable of working leaving, while leaving the rest behind

That is a generalization that doesn't reflect reality. Many villages thrive and many are also diverse with private businesses and shops that are doping well. Hence my question to dolnoslask what region he is located in beside dolnyslask.

At least I'm

You're a dumb a-hole that ask to be punched in your ugly mug, constantly with you ignorant comments. What is wrong with you?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,553
18 Jul 2018 #800
previous owners of the farm to watch my back

You're not going to convince naive people of this.... The same types who pretend everyone is honest and altruistic are the same ones who wanted Africa's and middle East's (witch) 'doctor's and (mud hut) 'engineers' to flood Europe - including Poland. Polish villages in the east around bialystok, near Belarus etc are dead. But those around major cities and in the south west are doing quite well. There's even quite a few foreigners including from China living in the towns around wroclaw. If it's a town that's around 10k people plus and along a major route it's not going to be some dead ass place.

offering to punch him on the snout

Shut your ugly decrepit ass up. You're not going to punch or kick anyone. Youre pussy ass called up the fbi because you didnt like it when someone poked fun at you. You're a punk ass b1tch who only talks big behind a keyboard because if you said that sh1t in person you'd be the one getting stomped, and you know it so you hide like the ho ass trick that you are
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
18 Jul 2018 #801
You're not going to punch or kick anyone

Dolno was referring to the local postman, who according to Dolno thought it was funny not to even try to do his job. I was simply saying that I wouldn't let the man get away with it. Would you?

Didn't think so.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,936
18 Jul 2018 #802
You're not going to convince naive people of this.

This is the point as Poles we can share the good and the bad with no fear of speaking out when we feel something is wrong even when we are criticising our selves, I still would not swap this place for where I lived in the UK no way

more than you on that score

Doug you have no idea!, and I am not going to get into a Pi$$ing contest with you today.

Doug in your defence at least you are honest about you dislike of the catholic church, and seeing us as a nation as going back in time, but this is nothing new many British and other EU nationals I have met here feel the same way.

The thing is by staying back in time as you put it saves the Polish nation from many of the corruptions in western Europe today,, multiculturalism and liberalism for example.

Polish Investor when I was talking about keeping Riff Raff out of the the village I was talking about people like Dougpo1 , The drunks and druggies are far more pleasant to be around.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,553
18 Jul 2018 #803
it saves the Polish nation from many of the corruptions in western Europe today,, multiculturalism and liberalism for example

What people forget is that Polish citizenz CHOOSE this path. Even our more left leaning P.O. party would be viewed as conservative in a place like the us uk or germany. It seems the eu and the leftists only accept democratically elected parties and campaign promises when it's along the lines of liberalism. But when a country votes in a euroskeptic anti migrant party suddenly the rule of law is at stake and the country is backwards, authoritarian, etc.

Would you?

Didn't think so.

Of course not. But I wouldn't be talking about punching priests in the nose because they want a newcomer to join the parish or kicking a lazy postal worker.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,936
18 Jul 2018 #804
lazy postal worker.

After having reflected on his actions I can see his problem, he is using his own (very small) car for deliveries, he would struggle to get more than two parcels the size of what was being delivered to me in his car that and he probably only gets paid per item doesn't help him.

But there is no way I would have gone to his boss with the evidence of his little misdemeanour, and I would never "kick him up the A$$", the guy is trying to make a living, sadly his small car isn't quite up to the job, but he is doing his best, but I pay the fuel to fetch my own parcels, anyway he said he would watch out in the future all is good. I will invite him to the next barbecue .
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
18 Jul 2018 #805
Even our more left leaning P.O. party would be viewed as conservative in a place like the us uk or germany.

What is really hysterical about the WE 'democracies' is that those morons there really believe they have more control over things that matter - like taxes and immigration - than we did under communism.

That is really funny.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,553
18 Jul 2018 #806
Indeed. Thankfully in Poland the government tends to listen to the citizens a bit more when it comes to certain issues - especially immigration. For a while though under P.O. Poland was captive to the whims of wealthy foreign investors and Brussels. Pis is undoing much of that but nonetheless they're still captive to a degree but atleast it's local lobbyists like from the coal and lumber industries who want to keep jobs for poles and not have them lost just because the eu doesn't like something going on without our own sovereign borders
delphiandomine 85 | 18,270
18 Jul 2018 #807
nonetheless they're still captive to a degree but atleast it's local lobbyists like from the coal and lumber industries who want to keep jobs for poles

Just leaving this here... thenews/1/12/Artykul/350038,Coal-imports-to-Poland-soar-Eurostat

In 2017, Poland imported 13.3 million tons of coal, 8.7 million of which came from Russia - the figure accounts for 65 percent of Poland's coal imports

That's not all.

facebook/notesfrompoland/posts/there-are-an-estimated-120/1042363565938853/

There are an estimated 120 illegal landfills in Poland, importing 400,000 tonnes of waste, mostly from western Europe, a year.

PIS are not only importing Russian coal, but also importing Western trash. And this is good?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,553
18 Jul 2018 #808
Even with the 60% jump to 13 million tons it's still but a fraction of the 140 150 million tons or even a low of 53 (2015) or average of 80 million produced domestically.

PIS are not only importing Russian coal, but also importing Western trash. And this is good?

Yes. If it's cheaper than producing domestically they will import. such is the law of comparative advantage.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
19 Jul 2018 #809
Actually in a village nearby dolno's they got to a situation where they had no postman. This was a couple of years ago so the basic pay after zus was around 1300zl cash in hand. Not a great deal but you would think for a village with at least 50% unemployed that there would be some folks willing to take the job. Its fine to say you wont get out of bed for less than 3 grand a month but as I explained to someone a few years ago, I can pay you 5 grand a month but you must earn me at least 10 grand to cover the costs of employing you and even then I am being generous since you will be earning much more than your employer!

Many villages thrive

Few thrive, only the ones close to, or with links to the biggest cities. Rather than convergence, the opposite is happening, certainly over the last 10 years. So your opportunity cost is always a big issue. The fault sits with the tax system and the behaviour of the local councillors of these villages, where often the first thought is to line ones own pocket rather than think for the good of the village.

The drunks and druggies are far more pleasant to be around.

Essentially they are a menace for their families and others that have the bad fortune of dealing with them. Its one of the reasons why the villages around Karpacz cant get any traction given that tourists are afraid of stopping their cars there even momentarily.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,936
19 Jul 2018 #810
Essentially they are a menace for their families

To be honest the Straz Miejska are doing a good job they have a card warning system , I don't know how but after too many warnings the worst offenders disappear for a while, I will ask our local policeman what happens to them at the next barbie (If he is not too pissed).

P.S

At no time ever has my wife or I felt threatened by them, different story in the UK.


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