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Pre-war or today's Poland?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
27 Jun 2013 #1
All in all, did the Poland of 1918-1939 achieve as much, more or less than the current post-communist Poland (1989-2013)?
smurf 39 | 1,981
27 Jun 2013 #2
No.
Wasn't Poland ruled by a semi-dictator during that period?

The Polish political scene was democratic, but was chaotic until Józef Piłsudski (1867-1935) seized power in May 1926 and democracy ended.

Then again....

The new, inexperienced government faced serious problems; already there was rampant corruption among government officials; a dizzying turnover of cabinets caused confusion and distrust.

Maybe not much has changed at all.

But wait....

In many respects, the Second Republic fell short of the high expectations of 1918.

Looks like it was a complete and utter failure.

At least this crowd in now are attempting to at least build better roads/train tracks and better city centers.
jon357 63 | 14,254
27 Jun 2013 #3
Looks like it was a complete and utter failure.

Hyperinflation, mass unemployment, political repression, endemic corruption, a coup d'état and the president assassinated.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
27 Jun 2013 #4
And a far better and safer neighbourhood. This little anecdote has lost much of its centuries-old currency...
When God was creating the world He said: 'And yes, the Poles -- I will give them a land of flowing with milk and honey, rich grainfields, lush forests teeming with game, lakes and rivers full of fish, natural resources such as coal, copper, silver and sulphur, scenic mountains, an impressive seacoast, rolling green meadows and beautfiul blonde-haired maidens...' A little angel witnessing the process pipes up: 'But aren't the Poels getting too much of a good thing.? God replies: 'Just wait till you see who I give them for neighbours'. .
goofy_the_dog
27 Jun 2013 #5
Hiperinflation was stopped in a matter of years by the Grabski's reforms, he was s wise, obviously introduced by Marszalek.
Mass unemployment was a big problem, but remember that it was a country formed in such a short time. They tried to stop it, e.g they build an entire new port of Gdynia in just about three years ( i wonder how many decades this gov need ;-) )

I am a sworn Pilsudczyk ;), read quite a lot about this period, the only real thing that i would accuse the second republic, is the false hope in the west. We should do what Piilsudzki wanted, buy sadly he passed away in 1935...
jon357 63 | 14,254
27 Jun 2013 #6
A matter of years. And miserable years indeed.
Polson 5 | 1,771
27 Jun 2013 #7
When God was creating the world He said: 'And yes, the Poles -- I will give them a land of flowing with milk and honey, .

He said that? ;)
Is it a Polish joke? Never heard of it. Or maybe I have... Anyway, it's a nice one.
goofy_the_dog
27 Jun 2013 #8
Lol jon, Poland was one of the first countries to get out of the recession, so what that they were indeed mieereable? Look at US, or the UK, they had to suffer for much much longer.

We were just lucky, we had the right people on the right seats in that era, unlike today -_-

Anybody heard about that MEN expert,that in the past, when she was a teacher, massacred completely one of her students??
jon357 63 | 14,254
27 Jun 2013 #9
They were very far from that - they didn't get out of economic recession at all. And post- Pilsudski the political situation deteriorated radically.
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #10
Hyperinflation, mass unemployment, political repression, endemic corruption, a coup d'état and the president assassinated

You forgot about Poland's first concentration camp. Oh, and having the relationships with one's neighbours that can be expected when one invades, stabs in the back, betrays and/or bullies them.
jon357 63 | 14,254
27 Jun 2013 #11
Plus the national bank being cleared out over one weekend.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
27 Jun 2013 #12
Now all that remains is to compare the glorious Fourth Republic with tinhorn Tuskite Poland. Natrually we shouild wait until the PiS-led camp has had their 8 full years to carry out their programmes. Tak nam dopomóż Bóg!
jon357 63 | 14,254
27 Jun 2013 #13
the glorious Fourth Republic

You still fail to describe the specifics of the project, despite being asked in another thread.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
27 Jun 2013 #14
Check the PiS website if interested. I only feel the general vibes of sweeping away the crud and scum. Exactly how they plan to go about it is what the PiS website will tell you. Good reading!
jon357 63 | 14,254
27 Jun 2013 #15
The PiS website contains nothing of the sort. We can therefore conclude that they don't have any detailed programme for a new constitution and as usual are just trumpeting nonsense. Clowns.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
27 Jun 2013 #16
It's right here: programpis.org.pl
Unless, that is, yoru Polish isn't good enough to grasp it all.
jon357 63 | 14,254
27 Jun 2013 #17
No it isn't. That's just his manifesto. Nothing about the constitution of his 'fourth republic', how that constitution would differ from the current one, how he would conduct the necessary referendum or how he would manage the transition.

And by the way - no language issues on my part. The only issue is that JK is avoiding stating his true intentions.
goofy_the_dog
27 Jun 2013 #18
You forgot about Poland's first concentration camp. Oh, and having the relationships with one's neighbours that can be expected when one invades, stabs in the back, betrays and/or bullies them.

Maan this forum stinks with Polish haters :O... it wasn't really a concentration camp.. apart from that, why did you say first?!!!??
It was merely a prison where they would beat people, going with your logic, Post War Poland was a massive concentration camp, since every UB jail, MO offices used to beat people as well, and torture them, even kill.

That prison that you are talking about, obviously lying as well, since what you are saying does not cover with the truth, was a political prison for all sorts of bad mouthed, no good, corrupted people, communists , socialists, etc etc... I don't see anything bad about it, especially that as far as I know there wasnt even one execution done in there.Marszalek Pilsudzki had a heart as big as a whale, some say ;-)
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #19
The only issue is that JK is avoiding stating his true intentions.

He can't really go around saying that it's all about 'Teraz kurwa my', can he?

it wasn't really a concentration camp

It was a concentration camp, as evidenced by the references to it as that in pre- and post-WWII newspapers.

apart from that, why did you say first?!!!??

Because Poland also ran concentration camps after WWII.

It was merely a prison where they would beat people,

It was far more than that, kindly stop lying.

a political prison for all sorts of bad mouthed, no good, corrupted people, communists , socialists, etc etc... I don't see anything bad about it

Hopefully you'll grow out of such stupid viewpoints.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
27 Jun 2013 #20
post-WWII newspapers

Communist propaganda lies! The 2nd Republiihad to protect itself agaisnt communist subversives (like Ozjasz Szechter and Bolesław Bierut), Ukrainian terrorists and Nazi Volksdeutsche and a preventive detetnion centre was needed for that purpsoe. People think of concentration camps in terms of Nazi gas chambers and creamtorium ovens. Only Polanohpobes use every opportuntiy to besmirch Poland's good name at every turn. We see that on PF all the time.
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #21
Communist propaganda lies!

Nope, reports in, for example, The Times.

People think of concentration camps in terms of Nazi gas chambers and creamtorium ovens.

Some people are stupid: gas chambers were the mark of the death camps.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
27 Jun 2013 #22
The tight-knit family, the role of the Church, respect for tradition and patriotism are what the real Poland is all about. And these are the very things our crazy mixed-up, cacophonic world needs to calm the turbuletnnwaters of moral decay and social anarchy. Praising a Polish hiphot performer is pretty lame, because he is merely regurgitating foreign influence. The Irish have theri Riverdance which made a world-wide splash. Something genuinely Polish that makes it in the world is what's needed, not more cheap imitations.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
27 Jun 2013 #23
The tight-knit family, the role of the Church, respect for tradition and patriotism are what the real Poland is all about.

That's not what I see in Poland every day. Are we living in the same country at the same time?

The role of the Church is decreasing daily, Poles couldn't care less about tradition apart from when it suits them, and as for patriotism - when was the last time you followed the definition of a patriot?

A person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

You abuse Poland almost daily on these forums.
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #24
The tight-knit family, the role of the Church, respect for tradition and patriotism are what the real Poland is all about.

Most Poles don't bother going to church. Have you forgotten that Poland has moved on since the 1960s?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
27 Jun 2013 #25
I realise that. You see the ersatz Poland, the copycat Poland, the non-innovative Poland capable only of imitating or at best only sligthly modifying alien designs, lifestyles and behaviour and you think that's how things should be. If you don't run exclusively with expat circles then you most likely interact with the citified buraki that worship at the altar of Brussels. Is a Xeroxed popculture all Poland can gvie to the rest of the world? Is assembling foreign-designed cars the best Poles can do? Poland is quite low on the innovation scale, and you probably think that's good. I do not.
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #26
You see the ersatz Poland, the copycat Poland, the non-innovative Poland capable only of imitating or at best only sligthly modifying alien designs, lifestyles and behaviour and you think that's how things should be.

You don't even know who Wojciech Amaro is, do you?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
27 Jun 2013 #27
Isn't he one of those TV cooks liek Małkiewicz and (fomerly) the late Maciej Kuroń? There's also a cooking nun on Relgiia TV. But what does that have to do with anything?.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
27 Jun 2013 #28
Poland is quite low on the innovation scale

I think it's scary that people are paying you to write about Poland when you come out with things like that.
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #29
Isn't he one of those TV cooks liek Małkiewicz and (fomerly) the late Maciej Kuroń?

No his is not: he is the genius who has brought Poland its first Michelin star. Something that the interbellum Polish dictatorship couldn't manage. His work is awe inspiring and placing Poland and real Polish food firmly on the world map after years of it being 'represented' by slop and swill served up by restaurants catering for people who thought that they were Polish because their great-grandfather might have been. He's also a hot tip to be the fastest European to two stars. He represents modern Poland perfectly, you are welcome to go back to interbellum Poland (you'd certainly fit in well in what is now Belarus).
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
27 Jun 2013 #30
Prove that's wrong! Put your money where your mouth is.


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