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Pre-war or today's Poland?


Harry
27 Jun 2013 #31
Prove what is wrong? You do seem to be getting more and more confused lately. And earlier in the day too.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Jun 2013 #32
nationmaster.com/graph/eco_inn-economy-innovation

Poland is 34th in terms of innvoation and ahead of such innovation 'leaders' as Lithuania, Trinidad & Tobago, Costa Ricsa and Latvia. But below Hungary, Ukraine, Slovakia and Estonia. Impressive, eh?
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #33
nationmaster.com/graph/eco_inn-economy-innovation

From your source

SOURCE: Porter, Michael E. and Scott Stern, National Innovative Capacity, Chapter 2.2 in Porter, Michael, and JeffreySachs (eds.), The Global Competitiveness Report 2001-2002, New York: Oxford University Press, 2001, p.104. via ciesin.org

So the data will be from 2000: a lot has changed in 13 years.
delphiandomine 87 | 18,446
27 Jun 2013 #34
So the data will be from 2000: a lot has changed in 13 years.

Considerably so, not least the fact that Poland has developed a hell of a lot of IT talent in the last few years.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Jun 2013 #35
So you provide the updated innovation ranking. I did my bit,.
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #36
You are claiming that Poland is low on the innovation ranking, it is for you to prove your claim.
alex_delarge - | 13
27 Jun 2013 #37
Poland is usually sky-high in all government-sponsored ranks. It also seems to be nicely scored in "the Economist" influenced by Anne Applebaum - a wife of the current polish minister of foreign affairs.
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #38
Actually a non-innovative Poland is the ideal place for neo-colonialist expats and shady foreign investors to exploit.

As it happens, from your link Polo:

Drivers of innovation growth in the EU include SMEs and the commercialisation of innovations, together with excellent research systems.

Now, which of us supports a party that is hugely unfriendly towards SMEs and commercialisation? Oh yes, that's you.

Come to think of it, you're the one who wants a 'return' to a 'traditional' Poland but you're still complaining about Poland not being innovative enough?! Make your mind up.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Jun 2013 #39
prove your claim

Is bottom of the totem pole low enough?

Who are the innovation leaders in the European Union?
Based on the Summary Innovation Index, the Member States fall into the following four country groups:
Innovation leaders: Sweden, Germany, Denmark and Finland, all show a performance well above that of the EU average.
Innovation followers: Netherlands, Luxembourg, Belgium, the UK, Austria, Ireland, France, Slovenia, Cyprus and Estonia all show a performance close to that of the EU average.

Moderate innovators: The performance of Italy, Spain, Portugal, Czech Republic, Greece, Slovakia, Hungary, Malta and Lithuania is below that of the EU average.
Modest innovators: The performance of Poland, Latvia, Romania and Bulgaria is well below that of the EU average.
ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/innovation/facts-figures-analysis/innovation-scoreboard
Harry
27 Jun 2013 #40
Is bottom of the totem pole low enough?

I see you're lying again. How boring.
Polson 5 | 1,771
27 Jun 2013 #41
Come to think of it, you're the one who wants a 'return' to a 'traditional' Poland but you're still complaining about Poland not being innovative enough?!

Harry's right, Polo. You want a fundamentally traditional Poland, and at the same an innovative country. Sounds a bit contradictory.
Among the most innovative countries you listed, most of them (esp. Sweden, Germany, and Denmark) are considered the least religious (and maybe the most liberal). Coincidence?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Jun 2013 #42
fundamentally traditional Poland, and at the same an innovative country

Pas du tout! I am referring to POLISH INNOVATIONS, not copycat stuff, not assembling VW Caddies in Poznań and Opel Astras in Gliwice. Something Polish and original -- an authenticlaly Polish-inspired song (not Polish rap crap) that takes the world by storm, a new Polish-designed make of car that becomes a top seller, a fashion item inspried by traditonal Polish folk tapestries that becomes all the rage... And in sick and dissolute libertine Europe Polish family and religious traditions can also be an eye-opening innovation to those for whom Sunday is nothing more than a time for nursing a bad hangover,

smurf
Yes, Piłsudski was an authoritarian fiugre but there was no other choice. When he stepped aside for democracy to take hold and retired in Sulejówek, democracy soon degenerated into anarchy. The presdient was assassinated by a national demoratic fanatic, and three fanatical Jewish communsits gunned down a police official. 13 governments rose and fell between 1919 and 1926, and constant bikcering amongst numerous parties, including punch-ups and police called in to restore order created what Piułduski called Sejmokracja -- a parliamentary circus. All this in a georgaphically precarious country also faced with internal threats from subversive groups such as the KPP and Ukrainian terrorists. Who knows how Poland would have fared had he not carried out his May 1926 coup.

During war and other particularly threatening times, special measures are needed. And this is done in every democratic country as well, to mention only WW2-era Britian and post-7/11 America.
pawian 176 | 14,299
28 Jun 2013 #43
There was one great achievement of interbellum Poland: development of deep patriotic attitude mostly in young people, but not only. Later on, during WW2 and after it, those youngsters went to barricades and gave their lives for Poland by hundred thousands.
delphiandomine 87 | 18,446
13 Jan 2021 #44
During war and other particularly threatening times, special measures are needed.

Chilling to read Polly say this, as it sums up perfectly how PiS are treating today's Poland.
Novichok - | 965
13 Jan 2021 #45
those youngsters went to barricades and gave their lives for Poland by hundred thousands.

...instead of staying alive to be an antidote to the Jewish commies who would later come on the Soviet tanks. Brilliant.
pawian 176 | 14,299
13 Jan 2021 #46
Stop abusing your ancestors.
Novichok - | 965
13 Jan 2021 #47
Once a teacher, always a teacher. Are you going to send me to the principal's office if I don't?

Because of those "ancestors", I almost didn't make it. A-holes. As it turned out, the Germans had more brains and let me live. They even fed me at the Hamburg camp. My "ancestors" didn't give a f**k about the 200,000 Poles who would eventually die.

On the plus side, Warsaw got leveled to make rebuilding it a must. Praga was not that lucky and it shows even today 75 years later.
jon357 63 | 15,533
14 Jan 2021 #48
as it sums up perfectly how PiS are treating today's Poland.

They're obviously not coping with the current situation.

Chilling when you think how much they admire pre-war (and PRL-era) authoritarianism.
Mr Grunwald 27 | 1,839
2 days ago #49
@jon357
That's because there is perspective of why Poland-Lithuania fell: to strong authoritarian regimes.
Which is why a more collective approach as been a goal in Poland. While at the same time ignoring the short-longevity and internal problems of authoritarian regimes post ww1 era.

No matter what system you have, or how good troops you have. One can't win a fight vs 3 great powers in Europe alone, at the same time
pawian 176 | 14,299
2 days ago #50
One can't win a fight vs 3 great powers in Europe alone,

Of course it was possible. But Polish elites of the time were too selfish and thrifty to increase expenses on the army. Strong Poland could have been a potential partner for another power. Weak Poland was useless to all of them so they didn`t hesitate to dismantle it.


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