Feeling ashamed of my Polish heritage.

Plenty of sights to see in Poland, get yourself over there, maybe you'll find a little bit of pride again ;0)

Im English and have visited Poland 3 times, by the way, I'd have aaded Spain to your list of wonderful places to visit, Barcelona is a wonderful city - Segrada Familiar is fantastic.

What needs sorting out exactly, first and foremost?

Impertinent is quite close, yeah. In fact, cheeky depends on the intonation. It certainly isn't bezczelny as so many dictionaries say. That's more negative. Zuchwały is ok.

So, since when has a great nation needed so much sorting out? ;) ;)

Way to illustrate the Polish trait of taking credit for something they didn't have anything to do with. It was a matter of coincidence that this all occurred while Poland was in this particular stage of it's economy. With the massive amounts of credit Poles live on (more than the Yanks on a per unit income basis) there is a BIG mess coming. Nobody can afford a 500,000pln flat on 2500pln a month yet there are plenty of those around.

BTW Swede you quoted someone else but put my name on it....I didn't say that.

And another one appears. It just gets better.

Oh, were do I start...

lowering taxes (and giving up that idiotic progressivity of them), getting rid of 90%
of all the nonsensical rules and regulations, firing about 60-70% of state administrative
clerks (and increasing the responsibility of those who remain, they should more liable to
legal actions for their deeds, currently they get away with too much), lowering the costs
of employment (ZUS mostly), improving infrastructure (how come we pay all those taxes
in fuel price and still have such terrible roads?)...

...I could go on.

Here here Torq...I cheered out loud at the "get rid of 90% of rules and fire 70% of clerks" bit. Actually I wouldn't want people to lose their jobs but FFS require them to actually KNOW and DO their job. They are the biggest obstacles to getting anything done in Poland. I actually was nearly kicked out of Poland 3 years ago because some official went on holiday for 2 months and my papers didn't get signed. For nearly a 1/4 of the year I had no papers and no explanation from them or way to prove I was legal. Made a real mess.

What's wrong with progressive taxation? Proportional is better but it's not that bad. What nonsensical rules and regulations?

If they are not doing their jobs correctly, shouldn't they be getting fired anyway?

ZUS, I'm 100% with you on that. It's pure theft, no other way to look at it.

Roads? The Chinese are on their way in the near future, 2050 I heard ;) ;)

Please go on. Every addition diminishes the greatness of the nation ;) ;) ;)

Beeb, it's hear hear and not here here :)

You have got to be kidding. Are you just trying to be contrary?

I only hear that the rules are that way without people ever trying to say why. I was told that I don't question enough. Well here I am, why? It's easy to hack out but, as Bob Dylan once said, 'don't criticise what you can't understand'.

The very idea of progressive taxation, Seanus. If I earn little money,
then I pay 18% tax. If I earn more money - I have to pay 32% tax.

So, basically, I am being punished for being smart, educated or simply
resourceful by being forced to give away a bigger part of my wages.
Mind you - if everyone was paying the same 18% it would be fair, because
fellow getting 20k would pay 3.6k taxes and fellow getting 100k would pay
18k taxes - sounds fair to me.

With the current system people are punished for being resourceful and hard-working.


Of course they should. It's not what happens in reality though.


The building/construction law for example - don't even get me started on the
administrative clerks who deal with all the concessions and permissions, sometimes
it feels like their only purpose is to make your life harder. Not to mention some of
the local authorities who think they are some sort of medieval lords in their areas
and very often break law and get away with it.


Typical :-/

I realized I misspelled and was going to change it but now it just looks like I am editing it because I was busted ;) So I will leave it. I have no ego really. I am always doing that with it's/its site/sight etc. Oh well..at least I don't type in text speak like most people anymore.

I had two types of people I dealt with in any Polish office (especially immigration) 1. The cute younger ones who flirted and helped you as long as you smiled and were nice and 2. the other 90% some young, some old who were not even hiding the fact that they despised even having to talk to you and treated you like crap.

Which is incomprehensible when you consider that YOU are the only reason why
those people are getting their salaries and benefits. A bunch of useless c**ts,
the majority of them.

Sorry Torq, but so many people on high salaries don't deserve such astronomical figures and I'm all for progressive taxation because of that. It supports my idea that, due to their character, people serve their social function whatever it may be. Surely a person is smart for choosing a job that's suitable for them and doesn't bring too much stress as a result. Some directors over-delegate anyway, they deserve to be thumped with higher taxes.

However, you are correct to say that if you are talking about Polish brackets. Back in 2007, I had a discussion with a high-level Director in Vattenfall. He told me how much he got gross and then net and I was astounded. For privacy reasons, I won't reveal the figures but suffice to say that I found it staggering. That idea was corroborated by a discussion with a guy from Isover on a healthy salary. So, a move towards a more proportional system would be better. There should be a 'basta*d tax' ;)

Permission is a normal function of a council, Torq. What's so odd about that? Beeb, I'm fully with you on that. Those old hags need a right good slap on the face with a wet fish. Creating a dour and stale atmosphere in a workplace is such a nasty thing to do.

Agreed if you're talking about state-owned companies. Some of the wages of high
executives are way too high. When it comes to private sector then I guess people
can do whatever they want with their money (including paying astronomical salaries
to their employees and they shouldn't be punished for that with a progressive tax).

Provided that there is fair play and not attempts to cheat at every step of the way, then ok. Is Polish fatcat an oxymoron? I've heard of Kulczak or whatever he was called, Jan K :) There are some stinking rich people here but not on the scale of top Jews.

LOL

You sound like a bolshevik, Seanus ;)

Wouldn't menshevik be a better term? ;) ;)

Who can judge that one person deserve for huge salery, and other doesn`t???

I think that the best is poll tax, or VAT...

Flat tax, the Slovaks figured that one out. You earn money, you pay taxes. Get rid of deductions, you streamline the system. Just a flat clean 19%.

Jeden, good point. A true exploration of meritocracy would reveal a few things. I just don't like anyone receiving obscene sums of money, it's wrong.

1) So you don`t like nobilities or their descendents??

2)I like people who earn a lot of maney... You know I`m not envious, I would like earn a lot of cash too.

For example if you work hard you should earn more than others...

The flat tax is also unfair...
Look, You as taxpayer(citizen) pay for something ( hospitals , police security, soldiers itd.)
why i have to pay more for the same thing than you...

therefore the poll tax is the best

Tell you what....pay me the 3000 eur to stay out of Poland and you can have it all to your Polish selves...deal?

I have to say, half of the negative comments about poland/polish life could just as well be exchanged with "norway". A horrendous tax-system, incompetent state workers, bad roads, no infrastructure, 30 year old trains, old people lying dead in their apartments for moths before anyone noticing, everything useful, like cars/motorcycles costing twice as much as in neighbouring sweden, really stupid politicians who want to control every aspect of your life from what you eat to when you have to go home from the pub..

Poland has the same problems as any other country. Of course, since many of us know the polish system pretty good, it's easy to bash it, but just ask any other european about his government and general status of their country, and they will repeat most of what you say...in one form or another. The difference is that Poland is actually getting better, while things in Norway are getting worse....

Dariusz

Yet another example of the Polish knee jerk "blame someone else and deflect" tactic. It's inevitable. Can't you ever just say "yeah that's something we should work on" without saying "but"?

Beelzebub; where in Poland do you live? I come from the Katowice area, and all the people I met there are cheery, positive, hard working and never really complain. In case they do, I haven't heard it yet. Everytime I visit, I see new malls, new roads, new buildings coming up. I see the new skyscrapers coming up over the whole of Poland, like the one in Sopot, I see europe opening up itself for financial rewards through hard work and business opportunities. I have several polish friends here in Norway who actually dream of moving back home and getting a better start, thanks to the money they saved up while working abroad. A couple of them have started building houses and establishing business connections...I have to say, from my personal perspective, I haven't really felt that "the world is coming to an end", feeling from any of them. Sure, the system isn't perfect, but it's getting there. Every month I read good news from Poland.

Maybe a polish man hurt you, and you now feel a little angry at him because he was polish? Maybe you just don't get the polish "mentality" of saying one thing, but meaning another? My wife is polish, grew up most of her life in the states, and is with me here in Norway now. The norwegian mentality is quite different from the states, she does not understand irony, which is HUGE in norway, so we've had quite a few funny moments...mostly with her as the victim...but all in good spirit...she doesn't get upset or question norwegian people because of that. If I'm really wrong here....sorry!

Dariusz

And why is that ?
To tell you the truth I couldn't care less!add full covers some nuclear rockets or two, and reputation or not half the world would kiss Poland's ass.


modern culture in Poland is hardly polish, it sucks!
*********** respect it should be changed or this polish speaking tribe will case to exists, why bother really...

You are not some kind of genius to spot obvious :)

Well since you don't care I will skip answering your question ;)

The "world" won't be kissing Poland's arse ever, that is a fantasy of the extremists.

People are not beating down Poland's doors to live their either. In fact cheap labor and the EU backdoor are the only reason the international community cares about Poland at all.

I lold

We don`t need your cares...

You need our money. Without foreign investment you would be living in the dark ages. Get off your ego trip and accept your place in the world. You are not going to be in charge that's just life.

its exactly that kind of "care" I cannot be bother with.
That care is not care at all its called business.


...................................................................... ...................................................................... ...................................................................... ...................................................................... ...................................................................... .........................!sorry I was laughing.

The answer is simple - don't invest!

For a moment I have thought that you see what I see, necessity of the change of Poles attitude's , but you are talking about easing a way for foreign investment and ventures.

Sorry its a least of things which ought to change.