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The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?


p3undone 8 | 1,135
23 Feb 2013 #541
Jasondmzk,any law biding citizen with a sense of decency who owns a gun,is the good guy with the gun.That's like asking,who's the good cop with the gun?
TheOther 5 | 3,711
23 Feb 2013 #542
the American G.I. that brought his gun to Poland 70 years ago to liberat your grandparents

ROTFL!
AmerTchr 4 | 201
23 Feb 2013 #543
I don't recall any Americans liberating Poland in World War 2.

Really? Read up on the efforts to supply the Warsaw Uprising through, material for the Polish Forces in Exile and millions of tons of materials supplied to enable the Russian Army to assist with their drive from the EAst.

Liberation of Poland was left to the Russian Army due to obvious geographic placements of the Allies, the Axis, Poland and the occupied areas of Poland, France and the Low Countries.

As for the original point, good guys with guns stop crimes and save lives EVERY DAY, MULTIPLE TIMES.
Polson 5 | 1,771
23 Feb 2013 #544
good guys with guns stop crimes and save lives EVERY DAY, MULTIPLE TIMES.

Really? Then give them to good guys only. The thing is: you can't do that.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
23 Feb 2013 #545
AmerTchr: good guys with guns stop crimes and save lives EVERY DAY, MULTIPLE TIMES.
Really? Then give them to good guys only. The thing is: you can't do that.

Exactly! Another Pro-Gun supporter!
Polson 5 | 1,771
23 Feb 2013 #546
Another Pro-Gun supporter!

Good guys with guns have to stop crimes from bad guys with guns, no need to say more I think.
America needs to move forward from that point of view.
Are you also a pro-death penalty supporter? Just asking.
jasondmzk
23 Feb 2013 #547
Another Pro-Gun supporter!

I guess it's just priorities. I'm pro-kids-without-holes-in-them. If you want to put YOUR right to have a gun above the rights of parents being able to know their kids won't be shot, that's on you.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
24 Feb 2013 #548
Good guys with guns have to stop crimes from bad guys with guns, no need to say more I think.
America needs to move forward from that point of view.
Are you also a pro-death penalty supporter? Just asking.

Ummm, no that's what you want to hear me say, but it's not what I said.

I simply said that good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns every day, multiple times. You added the "have to" in there.

In fact though, almost all bad guys who are stopped are done so by good guys with guns. Some are cops or soldiers, while others are citizens. A few kill themselves and, presumably, some die from car accidents or other causes.

Yes, I do favor the death penalty be available as a form of punishment.

I'm pro-kids-without-holes-in-them. If you want to put YOUR right to have a gun above the rights of parents being able to know their kids won't be shot, that's on you.

Then exercise your rights and don't live in the United States if it bothers you. You could move to Oslo, Norway so you would never have to worry that your kids would be away from home and be shot.......oh, maybe you could move to Dunblane, Scotland........or how about Winnenden, Germany........mmmmm, Toulouse, France.....or maybe the.........moon?

I sleep just fine whether I am back at home in the states or in Poland.
Polson 5 | 1,771
24 Feb 2013 #549
I simply said that good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns every day, multiple times. You added the "have to" in there.

In fact though, almost all bad guys who are stopped are done so by good guys with guns. Some are cops or soldiers, while others are citizens. A few kill themselves and, presumably, some die from car accidents or other causes.

Stopping criminals is not citizens' job, your argument is silly. Cowboys era is over. Let the police do its job. Do yours. Which is not killing random criminals.

Then exercise your rights and don't live in the United States if it bothers you. You could move to Oslo, Norway so you would never have to worry that your kids would be away from home and be shot.......oh, maybe you could move to Dunblane, Scotland........or how about Winnenden, Germany........mmmmm, Toulouse, France.....or maybe the.........moon?

Definitely silly. These tragic incidents happen like once every 5-10 years here. When they happen every 5-10 days in the US.

Yes, I do favor the death penalty be available as a form of punishment.

I will disagree again, but I guess it's off-topic here ;)
AmerTchr 4 | 201
24 Feb 2013 #550
Stopping criminals is not citizens' job, your argument is silly. Cowboys era is over. Let the police do its job. Do yours. Which is not killing random criminals.

I'm not arguing, I'm presenting facts. Try reading the papers and understanding the realities of legal gun ownership. Individuals are responsible for the security of themselves, their families and loved ones.

Definitely silly. These tragic incidents happen like once every 5-10 years here. When they happen every 5-10 days in the US.

Exaggerate much? Read up on school shootings, you are way out of touch on frequency.

Your stock answer to facts which don't fit your picture of the world is "silly".

No facts, no logic, no reality, no law.......just "silly".

Oh, thanks for the "cowboy" compliment.
Polson 5 | 1,771
24 Feb 2013 #551
I'm not arguing, I'm presenting facts. Try reading the papers and understanding the realities legal of gun ownership.

Well, I've lived in both France and Poland, and I still hear more 'facts' of this kind in the States. Last year was a bloody one. These things are still quite rare around here. Not saying they don't happen, but clearly less than in the US. And I saw other facts stating that those 'legal' weapons kill more than they save.

But I just saw you like 'shooting' (in your hobbies), so I guess I can't really convince you ;)

Exaggerate much? Read up on school shootings, you are way out of touch on frequency.

Your stock answer to facts which don't fit your picture of the world is "silly".

Which ones? There are none (almost) here.

Oh, thanks for the "cowboy" compliment.

You're welcome, Clint ;)
Calm - | 4
24 Feb 2013 #552
Statistically you are more likely to be killed by your medical Doctor or a car then you are a gun. (U.S. or Poland)
I guess if that is the case we should outlaw our Doctors and cars first one would think.
Polson 5 | 1,771
24 Feb 2013 #553
Ok, dunno why my post has been moved.. (Mods??)

Statistically you are more likely to be killed by your medical Doctor or a car then you are a gun. (U.S. or Poland)

So? That's a good reason to carry guns? Cars and doctors are not meant to hurt. Accidents happen. Guns are made to kill. Totally different.

I guess if that is the case we should outlaw our Doctors and cars first one would think.

Let's start with guns first. We still need docs and cars. We don't need guns.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
24 Feb 2013 #554
Well, I've lived in both France and Poland, and I still hear more 'facts' of this kind in the States.

SO much for you taking the time to check facts. I understand it's difficult to realize you don't know what's happening but those four cities are a LONG way from being the only ones in Europe these last few years with school and youth gathering shootings. I could have added Beslan, Erfurt, Emsdotten, Kauhojoki and Tuusula (Finland) and others where only a small number of students or teachers were killed and wounded, plus still more that have been stopped by police before they happened. You need to read more. Germany is number 2 in school shooting deaths, Finland and Norway are right up there as well. The US is a country of 311 million people and when matched against the Western European population and land mass for school shootings it isn't that different. Even a cursory Google search makes it clear that your "one every 5-10 years" assertion is completely false.
Lenka 3 | 2,353
24 Feb 2013 #555
Ok, dunno why my post has been moved.. (Mods??)

It was me. It was off-topic. This post is much better.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
24 Feb 2013 #556
Statistically you are more likely to be killed by your medical Doctor or a car then you are a gun. (U.S. or Poland)
I guess if that is the case we should outlaw our Doctors and cars first one would think.

The problem here Calm, is that you are talking rationally about saving lives while others try to work through their fears and insecurities.

Policing medical errors, tightening standards on the privilege of driving a car and showing no tolerance for drunk driving would all save lives but you will encounter a host of "reasons" that it's oay for people to be killed since it would be impossible to address those issues.
Calm - | 4
24 Feb 2013 #557
Well guys to be fair this thread is not why I came to this forum. It is just a sore spot with me
because of what is going on in my country. (The Gun Grabbers)
We are afraid there will be a lot of spilled blood on our streets when the economy collapses.
That is why the Gun Grabbers want them. Homeland Security just bought over 1 billion rounds of hollow point ammo to stock pile. (People killing ammo) And they say it is for practice.

We say, "color us stupid". I love my Country but fear my government.
The news media supports Odumbo. I suggest for you to go to Black Listed News.com
if you want to read unbias news of what is going on in the U.S.A., not CNN. Get the true facts there.
Our saying is, "We don't need gun control, we need government control".
If someone broke into my home to kill me, rape my daughter in front of her sibblings, rob my wife....
I would want my gun to double tab him between the lookers before he had a chance.
How about you or would you just stand there and watch as he brandished his gun/knife at you ?
He would be long gone by the time the police got there with their guns. Oh, and they don't carry guns to protect you, they carry them to protect themselves.

Throughout history the first step to a dictotorship was to disarm the people. (Gun Control)
Gun Control worked for Mussolini, Stalin, and Castro now didn't it.
With that said I want to thank you for allowing me into your forum.
I want to learn as much as I can about the people of Poland as I am Polish decent.
The biggest curse to man is ignorance. Please help educate me.
Thank you in advance, Calm C.A.L.M. = Citizens Against Legal Misconduct
Polson 5 | 1,771
24 Feb 2013 #558
It was me. It was off-topic. This post is much better.

Wow, that's strict ;)

The US is a country of 311 million people and when matched against the Western European population and land mass for school shootings it isn't that different.

Oh come on, in the last decade, most of these mass shootings (in schools and elsewhere) were in the US.

your "one every 5-10 years" assertion is completely false.

As was my 'one every 5-10 days', it's called exaggeration. But let's make a list of last year's shootings in the US, and another list for Europe. You 'win', I'm afraid.

Probably the problem is not only the right to owns guns, there's more than that, but still, it makes it easier.

If someone broke into my home to kill me, rape my daughter in front of her sibblings, rob my wife....
I would want my gun to double tab him between the lookers before he had a chance.
How about you or would you just stand there and watch as he brandished his gun/knife at you ?

Dammit, the States must be a scary place to live, man ;)
So the intruder aims a gun at you and you think you'll manage to get your gun and shoot him between the eyes?
You must work for the CIA or something.
I guess if you're afraid something like that could happen, then you should carry your gun everywhere you go, cuz it could as well happen at the local shop or stadium for instance. Good luck for your life in fear. Let's all have guns, it will feel so much safer.
TheOther 5 | 3,711
24 Feb 2013 #559
Oh come on, in the last decade, most of these mass shootings (in schools and elsewhere) were in the US.

You are discussing with the wrong guy, Polson. This is what he said in a similar thread in off-topic:
jasondmzk
24 Feb 2013 #560
The question was "would you support the legislating of guns in Poland?". The answer is no, of course not. They have done nothing good for any country that has them in any number. If you tell me Canada has more of them and less crime than the U.S., I'm gonna vomit. Guns have caused death and dismemberment into whatever society they are introduced freely. Why? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE MADE TO DO.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
24 Feb 2013 #561
As was my 'one every 5-10 days', it's called exaggeration.

By all means, do your research and get back with what you find is the extent of your findings. Knowledge is good.
Polson 5 | 1,771
24 Feb 2013 #562
Why should I do that? YOU are the one wanting to prove me wrong. You should come up with something, not me.
Anyway, there's no 'logic' for someone who carries a gun 24/7, except when he has to pee ;)
jasondmzk
24 Feb 2013 #563
By all means, do your research and get back with what you find is the extent of your findings.

You can research something in a manner that demonstrates what you want it to, how about we ask the right questions, and seek the answers, empirically? Here's some I think pertinent: 1. How many weapons does a country have? 2. What are the restrictions on caliber, magazine size, ammo type, and fire-rate of those weapons? 3. How evenly among the population are those weapons distributed? 4. How many times are those weapons used to commit- A: a criminal or accidental act, versus B: a lifesaving act? You research each of those, and be sure to factor in the 4th question, please. Then tell me again why Poland should have open restrictions on deadly weapons by civilians.
TommyG 1 | 361
24 Feb 2013 #564
Guns have caused death and dismemberment into whatever society they are introduced freely. Why? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE MADE TO DO.

Absolutely spot on mate.
I think only guys with serious paranoia or 'size' issues feel the need to own guns... very sad...

Poland doesn't need guns on the street, it's a safe country and I'd hope that it remains so...

Let's just hope those countries like the US can leave the 18th century and join the civilised world one day :)
AmerTchr 4 | 201
24 Feb 2013 #565
Great questions Jason. Why don't you present what you find or even what you think and put them out there for review?

Since the Poles are already allowed to own firearms, what "open restrictions" should Poland have?

I think the question probably envisioned allowing carry of firearms and a "less restrictive" purchase process. In my opinion, a country should allow their citizens to own firearms and carry them as they wish unless the individual has been restricted through due process. The world is full of choices though and if Polish citizens are happy with their right to own firearms (including assault weapons and high cap magazines as per current law) under their present licensing system then that is their decision.The question was asked and that's my answer, others may express their own.
Polson 5 | 1,771
24 Feb 2013 #566
In my opinion, a country should allow their citizens to own firearms and carry them as they wish unless the individual has been restricted through due process.

Ok, this is your opinion, I'm supposed to respect it. But it's still quite hard for me to understand the safe feeling you have about that, random people carrying 'assault weapons' in the street.

I don't want that for Poland, it wouldn't bring anything good. And the place won't be any safer. It's already much safer than the US or Western Europe, why change anything?
AmerTchr 4 | 201
24 Feb 2013 #567
why change anything?

Have to ask the OP.

My opinion is what it is.

If the Poles have no wish to change they can stay the way they are.

As for myself, I've got my eye on the Beryl Sporter (civilian version of their military's assault weapon) and high-cap magazine. A friend has offered to take me shooting here and I'm going to look into how they do the ownership system. Looks like something interesting to do on weekends.
Polson 5 | 1,771
24 Feb 2013 #568
Calm = AmerTchr (hehe)

I have several yard dogs

Perfect then, why carry guns then?

Was gonna work for them but thought I better finish 3rd grade first

Wise ;)

It is against the law to carry one in a stadium, church, bank, government building, bar or hospital

Yeah, well. It's against the law to download music for free. Everyone does it.

Just the opposite my friend, that's why I carry concealed, I fear nothing

It seems pretty obvious to me that you actually fear a lot. You probably don't realise it (thanks to your 'artillery'). I have no yard dogs, no gun, and I don't fear anything like all those things you've said. You are freaking scared, man, you are. But many Americans feel the same probably, the US is not a safe place, that's true.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
24 Feb 2013 #569
Calm: It is against the law to carry one in a stadium, church, bank, government building, bar or hospital

What state are you in CALM? To clarify, that's not true in every state.
TommyG 1 | 361
24 Feb 2013 #570
I don't want that for Poland, it wouldn't bring anything good. And the place won't be any safer. It's already much safer than the US or Western Europe, why change anything?

Absolutely spot on mate.
It's a cultural thing... As we say in the UK... small town = small mentality...
This is true as far as guns are concerned...

No, I don't support any such gun legislation in Poland... no intelligent, normal person would!!!

PS: This post is completely on-topic. Maybe a mod disagrees with my views, but I'd appreciate it if they would not move my valid post... thank you :)


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