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The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?


legend 3 | 664
25 Jan 2013 #511
When it comes to guns I have mixed feelings. It depends on various factors like how safe is the neighborhood, how many people, who is living there, etc.

If I was living in the rural area I might get one. Here in Canada and the city I live its very safe.
This isnt Chicago or Detroit where some Negros or gangs will shoot you. The Pakistani/Indian population is rising though but the Poles remain one of the largest ethnicity here (hopefully the latter wont change).

If I was living in Chicago or Detroit I might consider a gun. But that WONT happen (thank God I dont live in USA, no offense to my southern neighbors, im sure there are some good neighborhoods there).

As for Poland... with its history it might be a good idea for some civilians to have guns like in Switzerland (?). The army is very small personnel wise. Sure there are advantages of professional smaller army but the extent they reduced is shocking actually. (Im assuming its 100,000 active personnel and 20,000 reserves which is less than Romania and much less than Spain a country with similar population).

Hopefully if peace stays and politicians play smart hopefully nothing bad will happen in Poland and maybe guns arent needed.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
25 Jan 2013 #512
LOL,the training classes are useless mostly chatting about hunting and almost no safety taught.They dont even teach you to put child safety locks on your guns..go figure that.Mostly is who likes who and who knows who.

Training is different in different areas and places. Good training should go without saying. If you do their minimum process I guess it is good that you met the legal requirements, but you can always get better training. There are plenty of firearms training locations and instructors, Among some of the gun owners in the US it is not uncommon to take vacations where you spend a week on the ranges, in the classrooms and dealing with safety and operational issues (you might look at places such as Front Range, Gunsight, Thunder Ranch, etc.). You might have to look harder but I suspect they exist here as well. If all else fails, take a vacation to the US and attend one there.

Having a firearm is a responsibility and in the end you are the one accountable for its control and use. A good storage point (or two), ammunition in storage as well and enough practice to put your shots where they are intended are things you should be able to do properly.

Best of luck!
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
30 Jan 2013 #513
Citizens of all countries must be allowed to own firearms. That's because governments tend to bloat themselves up and become corrupt. Ask those who have lived under Nazis, Soviets, Mao's China and dozens of other autocratic governments. America shook off King George's yoke through the use of guns. Hence, the founders knew the importance of the Second Amendment. All countries need one.
Lenka 3 | 2,353
30 Jan 2013 #514
You may think that however I would never support such legislation
jon357 66 | 16,187
30 Jan 2013 #515
Citizens of all countries must be allowed to own firearms. That's because governments tend to bloat themselves up and become corrupt

Better for 'citizens of all countries' to strive for democracy, rather than have guns lying around. Not that a large government is a bad thing per se.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
30 Jan 2013 #516
Citizens of all countries must be allowed to own firearms.

LOL, come join us in the Kindergarteners Cut Down thread.....

So, what do you have to do to buy one of these?

Sports carbine Radom-Sport cal. .223 Rem is an automatic center-fire rifle with the trigger mechanism for enabling only a single fire. Carabiner is designed and produced for the civilian market. Radom-Sport has gained a reputation for exceptional accurate and precise rifle, and the big advantage is the possibility of shooting at long distances.

fabrykabroni.pl/?d=116
Paulina 10 | 1,623
30 Jan 2013 #517
So, what do you have to do to buy one of these?

For sport guns:

If you apply for a gun permit for sports purposes should be attached proof of membership in sport club or sporting association performing sport shooting, frequency of participation in competitions organized by the club and results achieved ..

The person must also submit a shooting license and patent issued by the Polish Sport Shooting Association, however, this document is not critical to the merits of the case.

From: bron.pl/Sklepy/bron.pl/FAQ/WIATROWKI-I-OSPRZET/Jak-uzyskac-pozwolenie-na-bron

You may think that however I would never support such legislation

Me neither.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
30 Jan 2013 #518
For sport guns

Thank you very much! That is very interesting but I don't see that model or calibre offered.
pip 10 | 1,661
30 Jan 2013 #519
You know for a canuck you can be one of the most baiting trolls on this forum. I'm glad the first Canadians I met were nothing like you. And do you live in Poland now? or even in past year? Hmm think not. Were you born there..if I recall...No.

actually, I have lived here for 11 years, I live here now and probably will for quite some time.

I have no problem calling out ignorant Americans. Luckily for me I have American friends who are the sweetest nicest people I have ever met because otherwise I would think that the whole lot are nothing but gun toting tools that have invaded Canada and not for the better. Keep your guns in the U.S. Clearly it works really well for all of you.
Paulina 10 | 1,623
30 Jan 2013 #520
Thank you very much!

No problem.

Surprisingly, there are a bit over half a million guns owned by civilians in Poland.

I suspect most of them are hunting guns. At least that was the case in 2008:

guns in Poland 2008

253 913 - hunting guns
151 001 - gas guns
28 064 - sporting guns
23 945 - battle (?) guns
602 - signalling and alarm (?) guns
165 - electroshock weapons
152 - crossbows
91 - melee weapons

Keep your guns in the U.S.

Yes, please...
AmerTchr 4 | 201
30 Jan 2013 #521
These are YOUR guns, I'm trying to figure out if they are worth buying one to take home.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386
30 Jan 2013 #522
gas guns are regulated to metres/feet per second. you wouldn't want to be stood in front of one though.

as they are replicas you might find something you like.

militaria.pl
Paulina 10 | 1,623
30 Jan 2013 #523
These are YOUR guns,

I think pip's comment was adressed to Rysavy.

I'm trying to figure out if they are worth buying one to take home.

You want to buy that sporting semiautomatic rifle produced by "£ucznik"-Radom?
You won't find it at bron.pl
- it sells "guns without permit". Those are electric replicas of real guns, for example:
bron.pl/shopbron/product/AIR-SOFT-GUN/Pistolety-maszynowe/Pistolet-maszynowy-AEG-H-K-MP7-A1/835
It shoots with balls, not bullets ;)

You would have to get a permit for a real sporting gun. I've quoted what you would need to get it (in Polish).
AmerTchr 4 | 201
30 Jan 2013 #524
gas guns are regulated to metres/feet per second. you wouldn't want to be stood in front of one though.

as they are replicas you might find something you like.

They aren't gas guns. You obviously didn't look at them very closely.

In the first set of links which I asked about they are 5.56 Sporter models.

In the Sporter section of Paulina's links they are .22's (rifles and pistols).
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386
30 Jan 2013 #525
You obviously didn't look at them very closely.

No, your comment above was vague.

However, I know enough about gas guns as i've seen enough of them. I still think you might find something interesting.

the .22's are gas fired.
Paulina 10 | 1,623
30 Jan 2013 #526
In the Sporter section of Paulina's links they are .22's (rifles and pistols).

Ah, right, there's a sporting section, I missed that:

LONG GUN SPORT department includes weaponson which you must have a permit. We present you here long, high-performance arms and recreational rimfire ammunition in caliber .22 LR (5,6mm). The high-performance weapon is represented by Walther brand - German manufacturer with a 125 years of experience and a Swiss producer Hammerli sporting weapons. Under the brand name COLT are also produced in Germany rimfire rifles facilities which are replicas of the legendary US Army combat weapons such as rifles M4, M16 and Colt pistols, 1911. The purchase of this weapon is only possible in the showroom with a valid promise to buy weapons and proof of identity .

bron.pl/shopbron/product/BRON-SPORTOWA/Bron-sportowa-dluga/Karabin-22LR-Heckler-Koch-MP5A5/56182
Yes, this is a real sporting gun (you can even tell by the price lol). But the site says one has to show a valid permit for sporting guns and ID to buy it (you can't buy it online).
AmerTchr 4 | 201
30 Jan 2013 #527
Was one of your links the instructions for a permit?
AmerTchr 4 | 201
30 Jan 2013 #529
What is vague about links to 5.56mm Civilian hunting rifles?

And sorry to break it to you but .22LR is a rifle cartridge. Gas-operated, shoulder-fired refers to the operation of the action rather than the propellant used by the ammunition.

Do you know Polish?

No, but I can figure it out with a translator and some help from friends. Thank you very much for your assistance.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386
30 Jan 2013 #530
And sorry to break it to you but

i'm right, you are right.

i realized that we are talking about two different things.

in the graph above (previous page). gas guns are pellet guns.

plenty of Polish folk carry .22 pellet guns.
AmerTchr 4 | 201
30 Jan 2013 #531
This started when I asked about real weapons manufactured in Radom for civilian sporting purposes. Someone else responded with a graph of gun ownership after Paulina gave me a link to a place that sells .22LR handguns and Scary-looking .22LR semi-automatic sporting rifles.

Another person in the CHAT ROOM passed me a link to a real gun store and contact numbers for finding out purchase requirements and how to get them out of the country and into other countries.

All in all it's clear that there are gun stores in Poland which sell the same sort of "Assault Rifles", including high-capacity magazines, that are sold in the US.

Several people in Ukraine carry those dinky little CO2 pellet pistols and also have a .16 caliber handgun (usually revolvers) which they carry for personal defense.
Paulina 10 | 1,623
30 Jan 2013 #532
No, but I can figure it out with a translator and some help from friends. Thank you very much for your assistance.

You're welcome :)

This also could be useful - Opole police site about getting a permit for sporting guns:

opolska.policja.gov.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=151:-pozwolenie-na-bro-sportow-&catid=48:pozwolenia-licencje&Itemid=120

For guns in general: szczecin.kwp.gov.pl/zezwolenia-i-licencje/pozwolenia-na-bron

Both links say that one has to be a permanent resident in Poland to get a gun, though.
Ironside 50 | 10,814
30 Jan 2013 #533
pip:
Keep your guns in the U.S.

Yes, please...

nonsense!
AmerTchr 4 | 201
30 Jan 2013 #534
Both links say that one has to be a perminent resident in Poland to get a gun, though.

Interesting. So, once a permanent resident it is actually possible to purchase firearms (subject to the other rules on sports club, health, etc.).

I have another link to follow up on which is for "English-speaking" customers. Will let you know what I discover on buying guns in Poland from a foreigner's perspective.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386
30 Jan 2013 #535
This started when I asked about real weapons.

OK, no more from me.
Paulina 10 | 1,623
30 Jan 2013 #536
Interesting.

I don't know if I translated it right - it says:

Who can get a gun:

Osoba posiadająca stały pobyt w województwie opolskim

Who can't get a gun:

5. nie posiadającym miejsca stałego pobytu na terytorium Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej

I have another link to follow up on which is for "English-speaking" customers. Will let you know what I discover on buying guns in Poland from a foreigner's perspective.

OK :)
Calm - | 4
23 Feb 2013 #537
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
jasondmzk
23 Feb 2013 #538
Here I am, quoting you, who is in turn quoting Dwayne LaPierre, the head of the odious NRA. Isn't that meta? How about instead of thinking about the very tippy-top pointed end of bullet, we think about how that bullet got into the gun, and how the gun got into the hand of the one whom would wield it? Things don't tend to happen spontaneously, there is generally a path that they take, isn't there? The ending of the path is obvious, a person, maybe a child, killed by a person who had access to a gun. But what if that pathway were traced backwards, and pivotal points that could have altered its trajectory were observed? Would we then be able to isolate similar points in the future, and change the pathway that led to such a violent conclusion? Think of all the angry, disturbed, explosive personalities out there. Think of all those guns, those millions and millions of lethal weapons, easily used, and so easy to kill with. What if we interrupted the pathways between the angry person and the gun they would use so maliciously, or with such reckless disregard? Lives would be saved, injuries thwarted, no? Instead of focusing on killing a person whom has already out-thought you, who has already prepared him or herself to kill, what if we focused on keeping that person from ever getting their hands on a weapon, or lessening the ability of that weapon to cause such calamity? Who is the good guy with the gun? Who will be the bad guy tomorrow? No one knows. To the person doing the killing, HE is the good guy, and their TARGET is the bad. How many innocents will you sacrifice to keep millions of guns in the hands of dangerous or irresponsible people? A "bad guy" with a gun will always be there, we can't un-create them. Guns don't have to be, they can be stopped, slowed, destroyed, just as their victims are.
Calm - | 4
23 Feb 2013 #539
Often a family quarrel will end in verbal abuse, shouting, throwing things or maybe a black and blue mark or two. If someone in a fit of drunken rage had easy access to a firearm.......

Quarrels in the U.S. often end the same way as they do in Poland as you stated. When someone is in a "drunken rage" however and has easy access to a knife or ball bat or lead pipe and the difference is ?

The difference in the U.S. is that he may be looking down the shiney end of a .45 as he is ask if he would like to talk about Jesus until the police show up.

Here I am, quoting you, who is in turn quoting Dwayne LaPierre, the head of the odious NRA.
LAPierre is the vice president, David Keene is the president of the N.R.A.
You have quoted nothing that I stated.

Who is the good guy with the gun?

Wouldn't you agree that would be the American G.I. that brought his gun to Poland 70 years ago to liberat your grandparents?
We can debate this until the cows come home with the bulls on their backs so let's just agree to disagree.


A well armed society is a polite society
thetenminuteman 1 | 80
23 Feb 2013 #540
Wouldn't you agree that would be the American G.I. that brought his gun to Poland 70 years ago to liberat your grandparents?

I don't recall any Americans liberating Poland in World War 2. In fact, I distinctly recall the American President selling out Poland at Yalta.


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