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Is it possible to master the Polish language fluently for a non-Polish speaker?


mowiciel prawdy
21 Jan 2024 #61
I beg to differ, sir, while I do use various 'programs' (Briton, Briton, pants are brittle) in the case of a few languages, I generally do not need such aids in the case with the Polish language or a few other languages, or the English pidgin for that matter. I do, however, recommend you to familiarize yourself with a popular poem by Julian Tuwim, which you have been so kind to share, and which has made me so proud of my pedigree, albeit I think that it may be impossible for someone of the noble descent to truly understand its beauty, Indeed, sir sahib, I believe that it contains the beauty so formidable that it may shatter your pants, and what will you do if the source, the essence of your intellect becomes so awfully exposed? that is to say, if I understand it correctly that the Britons wear pants upon their heads; as said, British pidgin is not my mother tongue, and since I have never been to the misty Albion, I probably also have some misconceptions about your traditions - after all the communication and the mutual understanding between cultures and even the intracultural awareness of the one's own sources, one's one essence often remains very limited today, as one may clearly see upon reading almost any British book on culturology.
mowiciel prawdy
21 Jan 2024 #62
Pisanie po angielsku boli - w niektórych kulturach powszechnym zjawiskiem jest nieużywanie "ja" w ogóle lub ograniczone użycie "ja" (np. polski jest dobrym przykładem w porównaniu z rosyjskim) lub używanie "niskorejestrowych" słów i form czasowników w odniesieniu do siebie. Brytyjczycy natomiast są szlachetni i najważniejsze słowo w swojej kulturze zawsze piszą dużą literą. Dlatego pisząc po angielsku czuję się jak oszust, bo nie jestem taki szlachetny.
Novichok 4 | 7,962
21 Jan 2024 #63
This must be a PF record:

That is to say, if I understand it correctly, that the Britons wear pants upon their heads; as said, British pidgin is not my mother tongue, and since I have never been to the misty Albion, I probably also have some misconceptions about your traditions - after all the communication and the mutual understanding between cultures and even the intracultural awareness of the one's own sources, one's one essence often remains very limited today, as one may clearly see upon reading almost any British book on culturology.

Could you repost it and make it suitable for seniors with short memory issues?
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
21 Jan 2024 #64
This discussion reminds me of a most engaging debate between linguists
during a symposium headed by the Canadian Prof.Steven Pinkert, in which the concept
of dialect vs. language was being discussed.

A gentleman rose during the session and quipped, a dialect is merely an appendage
to a language, whereas the latter is merely a dialect with an army and a navy behind it.

Standardization, as I've said before, is as much political, indeed social, as it is linguistic!
:-)
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
21 Jan 2024 #65
@Mowiciel prawdy, Norwegian's a most apt example, actually.
Nynorsk isn't even a centuries' old language, but a construct
based on Ivar Aasen's attempt during the mid-19th century to return Norwegians to their
true Norse roots by extricating all Dano-Norwegian aka Bokmaal/Riksmaal words from the language in a sort of nativist, peasant revolt.
He succeeded!
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,176
21 Jan 2024 #66
He succeeded

In making political turmoil and a disliked language by most of it's own country? I wouldn't excactly call THAT a success story
mafketis 37 | 10,897
21 Jan 2024 #67
a disliked language by most of it's own country?

I saw the results of a survey in Norway about what language they wanted their children educated in.The choices were

riksmaal (closest to Danish)
bokmaal (like Danish but with more specifically Norwegian elements)
nynorsk (written prescriptive standard meant to evoke country dialects)

Riksmaal was the clear winner. It's also used in private publishing (where, for example, things like 'piken' for 'the girl' are more common than 'jenten/jenta')

On the other hand, last year's nobel winner for literature writes in Nynorsk...
jon357 74 | 22,054
21 Jan 2024 #68
only extremely intelligent and talented people are really successful.

I've known some really bright people who are useless at languages and some people not so bright who achieve good fluency.
Different types of intelligence.
mowiciel prawdy
21 Jan 2024 #69
Could you repost it and make it suitable for seniors with short memory issues?

I hate pawian because he is basically wrong in almost every possible way, and because his attitude is making me positively empört. pff, where is my little teapot, I may need to drown a couple of rabbits with little baboons painted on their fur tonight to calm down.

In making political turmoil and a disliked language by most of it's own country? I wouldn't excactly call THAT a success story

That is still a major success, and the fact that most modern Norwegians do not want to learn it may even be perceived as a compliment to nynorsk. I wish someone would do the same e.g. with Russian, Russian is such a nice language but its grammar is a joke (450 pages for a 'full academic grammar reference book' or what was it called, what a useless purchase), so one gets a better idea about the parts of Russian grammar which, sadly, have never been properly researched (they generally either sold as 'exceptions' or not discussed at all) by studying other Slavic languages and other related languages. I guess neither Romanovs nor Bolsheviks had the money or desire to overdevelop the language of chłopy - not that they start getting funny ideas about their language and its difference from the language of pany from Moscow/St. Petersburg (something rather francophone at times, and at times also with a slight touch of Wurst) - and, at least judging by the Kremlin website and the main page of Yandex, this trend continues today. Heck, if it goes like that, then one day Russians may get as far/low as one half of the way/fall to the epitome of pidginness and practicality already achieved by some superior languages.

Hope it will never happen to Polish.
Miloslaw 19 | 4,925
21 Jan 2024 #70
I hate pawian because he is basically wrong in almost every possible way

Like most of us long suffering members of this forum think.......
mowiciel prawdy
21 Jan 2024 #71
Standardization, as I've said before, is as much political, indeed social, as it is linguistic!

...when you think about it, Russia today also displays a traditional British attitude in politics. maybe you can only make a practical and superior language out of a lesser language that you already speak by behaving so on the international arena. there is no Friedrich Max Müller in the MGU today of course, and no ancient Ruthenian literature to be discovered after sacking this or that town, and no gold to be sent to Moscow (if one does not consider Kolomoyskyi and such to be essentially made of gold; and in any case, I hope Ukrainians will keep them locked in a very safe place), and no zamindars, so there are differences too.
Joker 3 | 2,326
21 Jan 2024 #72
I hate pawian because he is basically wrong in almost every possible way,

Welcome to the club!
mowiciel prawdy
21 Jan 2024 #73
dziękuję wam, bracia! może powinienem się zarejestrować na tym forum. nie wiedziałem, że w tym klaustrofobicznym internecie są jeszcze jakieś fora
Ironside 53 | 12,424
21 Jan 2024 #74
His English isn`t fluent as he constantly takes advantage of various programes which make his posts intelligible.

Hey, I feel so wronged ... that can't help but burst laughing. lol! Good on you baboon!
you never disappoint the level of pettiness...
----

Learning a language has little to do with intelligence.

Depence what you talking about. If you want to learn a language as a way of survival, because you wnat to or because you are good at it, or because it is a necessary tool for you to adapt and prosper in the modern world,

There are plenty of reasons and motivations but one thing is certain, you need to have some basic level of intelligence, if your IQ is too low you won't be able to learn much more over a few words.

~ I find that enriching and it opens new horizons for me, English is a tool for exploration (in a sense)lol!
mowiciel prawdy
21 Jan 2024 #75
@Ironside, sir, I have been confused with you. I apologize for all the bad words Baboon told about you, thinking that I am you, blinded by his aggression as he was. it is all my personal fault and I am really sorry.
pawian 223 | 24,390
21 Jan 2024 #76
I hate pawian

You are pretty unstable emotionally, I see. In one thread you say you love me, in another - hate me. Amassing. You remind me of certain Ptak....... :):):)
mowiciel prawdy
21 Jan 2024 #77
@pawian, forgive me, sir, I am just testing the level of tolerance on this forum before deciding whether I want to register or not. it is just that I cannot imagine posting on a forum where I cannot talk crap about Britons, Americans, Germans, and, last but not the least, some Turks and Russians, and get away with it. as the famous English philosopher, Kant, once told after an especially hard day at the English boarding school where he studied, "Man must be disciplined, for he is by nature raw and wild", and I will from now on try to discipline myself.
pawian 223 | 24,390
21 Jan 2024 #78
I will from now on try to discipline myself.

Be careful with it coz you might hurt yourself. :):):)
mowiciel prawdy
21 Jan 2024 #79
I will make sure not to overexert myself, thank you.
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
22 Jan 2024 #80
@Mr.Grunwald, Aasen's was the same philosophy which motivated the change of your present capital
from Kristiana to the ancient Norse Oslo back in 1924.
Ironside 53 | 12,424
22 Jan 2024 #81
You are pretty unstable emotionally

Stop projecting, that is you who is unstable emotionally not any other.
mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #82
I think that pawian is actually alright. he hasn't tried to bite me and hasn't smeared my suit's sleeve with his saliva, hence not displaying the typical PO voter behaviour. he will probably get over it when he gets educated and understands at least a bit about politics.
jon357 74 | 22,054
22 Jan 2024 #83
practical and superior language out of a lesser language

No such thing as either.
mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #84
no way. why? don't you know that, for instance, your the human rights are much better protected if you speak English? why, I wouldn't earn as much as I do now without the superior language. don't tell me I should try to forget English just because it's ugly - yes it's maybe not the most beautiful of all languages, but it helps me to earn my daily bread.
jon357 74 | 22,054
22 Jan 2024 #85
your the human rights are much better protected if you speak English?

It helps like any skill. Millions speak a kind of bland Euro-English though, without nuance and with a limited vocabulary; it's becoming ordinary now.
mafketis 37 | 10,897
22 Jan 2024 #86
Millions speak a kind of bland Euro-English though, without nuance and with a limited vocabulary

"International English" is the most boring form of human communication yet devised.... dreadful to listen to....
jon357 74 | 22,054
22 Jan 2024 #87
dreadful to listen to....

Some "stayed too long" efl teachers in desert places end up speaking it themselves.

Free of nuance, colour, flexibility, charm and humour.

And it's in PL too of course and has sadly started to spread to London.

I actually saw the non-existent word "trainings" in London. I'd only heard it in Poland. Then again, mistakes eventually getting codified into language is nothing new.
mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #88
or into pidgin, it even not newer. accept it. we improve your language, make better.
by the way, you not like trainings? why? you don't want be slim?

British improved, made better much countries. bring peace and balance for your language least we can do to return the fevour
jon357 74 | 22,054
22 Jan 2024 #89
we improve your language

You don't though.

Although Polish isn't a primitive language, its verbosity doesn't really help it and of course the flexibility's not really there. That makes it easier to speak an a non-native of course.
Novichok 4 | 7,962
22 Jan 2024 #90
"International English" is the most boring form of human communication yet devised.... dreadful to listen to....

Sure beats any other method of communication.
How about Esperanto or Ebonics? Next time I am in Nepal, I will try both...


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