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Is it possible to master the Polish language fluently for a non-Polish speaker?


mowiciel prawdy
19 Jan 2024 #31
myślę, że niemiecki jest trochę brzydszy od amerykańskiego, amerykański jest trochę brzydszy od brytyjskiego, a brytyjski jest trochę brzydszy od niemieckiego. to krąg brzydoty.
zwolennik prawdy
19 Jan 2024 #32
możesz mieć tutaj rację, korwa (korwa to po tybetańsku "sansara". w sansarze możliwe są takie nielogiczne, ale brzydkie rzeczy)
Jay Reatard
19 Jan 2024 #33
me, I luv American but sometimes get real mad and behave very British, so the consequences are all but German. that is why I died so early
Novichok 4 | 7,962
19 Jan 2024 #34
a brytyjski jest trochę brzydszy od niemieckiego. to krąg brzydoty.

...and that's why German is so widely used all over the world...
American was invented by the people who listened to the British illegal aliens and said: Hell, no way! These clowns don't even know how to spell color, program, and shop.
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
19 Jan 2024 #35
Amen, Rich! At least as far as your first sentence goes, you and I are in
absolute agreement. That's scary:-)
mowiciel prawdy
19 Jan 2024 #36
I think that you just have to accept the fact that you speak a simplified version of the glorious English language, the master language of the Empire, the pidgin of sorts which was developed long time ago as less grammatically endowed means of communication between the local English szlachta and Norse/French-speaking invaders as they engaged in all sorts of interactions in the counties (just don't adopt the American spelling here!) of Essex, Kant (some claim it was named after the famous English philosopher), Wessex, Middlesex (some claim that its name had inspired some of the leaders of the sexual revolution), and so on.

I know it hurts to realize that in order to understand how your language works and what it used to be before it became a pidgin, you have to learn Middle English, Old English, and maybe even all these ancient Germanic languages, and I know that Americans do not like history precisely because it hurts to look into the mirror sometimes, but I hope that you will find the bravery to do so one day.
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
19 Jan 2024 #37
No so, mowiciel!

American English has long developed into her own proud language, complete with her own
distinct vocabulary, even grammatical structures, idiom, not to mention divergent pronunciation.
Our "standard accent" is based on the "dialect" or erstwhile speech of Southern English pronunciation
from the 17th century, around the time the Puritans landed at Plymouth Rock.

Both British and American have both gone in separate directions and are as different from either
the O.E of Beowulf, the M.E. of Chaucer or the tongue of the Great Bard as day and night.
mowiciel prawdy
19 Jan 2024 #38
I do not doubt the American pride nor a separate tradition of pidgin-development within a historically negligible time frame. What I am trying to point out is that both are pidgins in their origin, as well as in their grammatical constructions/disorder.
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
20 Jan 2024 #39
A pidgin in linguistics refers to a bastardized variant of an established
source tongue which, owing to political influences, has morphed into a separate
entity.

Since "British" (as opposed to "American") is the Ur- or Primordial language
from which the latter derived, I don't entirely see your point here.
Novichok 4 | 7,962
20 Jan 2024 #40
Post #37 proves again that 99% of knowledge is useless.
I didn't know any of what was in it, and didn't lose any sleep because of my blissful ignorance.
jon357 74 | 22,054
20 Jan 2024 #41
bastardized variant of an established

That's pretty well every language that ever existed. No language was farted into existence by the language goblin. Except maybe Esperanto however that's Bialystok for you.

British

There are quite a few different Englishes in Britain. If you met, say, Milo and I at the sand time you'd notice that not only do we sound different but we use subtly different speech patterns.

Worth remembering that the first sentence of English poetry, written in Englisc, sometimes called Old English, is (in modern English): "Listen to this, you Danish warriors".
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
20 Jan 2024 #42
Allow me to qualify. The language of the Dutch West Indies/Antilles aka Papiamento is technically a pidgin,
as is the varieties of English spoken in both Hawaii as well as the Pitcairn Islands in the South Pacific.

However, Australian English for example, is not a pidgin because it remains a recognizable facsimile
of the language which we all recognize as "English", albeit spoken in a different area of the world than
the UK, same with American along with Canadian English.

Typically, pluracentric languages such as English, Spanish or French, will experience dialect variation
throughout the world as a consequence of centuries of colonization, whereby "foreign" varieties, such
as new lexic etc. are gradually added to become part of the base vocabulary.

Polish on the other hand has no known pidgins or varieties of language owing to colonialist expansion
as the language is primarily, indeed almost exclusively, spoken within one country, namely Poland.

@jon, you're quite right. Yet, in my experience, the "Standard" English spoken throughout England
is still RP (Received Pronunciation), although even that pronunciation has changed considerably over
the past decades, perhaps to reflect a more brashly proletarian usage, even on the BBC.
jon357 74 | 22,054
20 Jan 2024 #43
recognizable facsimile
of the language which we all recognize as "English

I'd say it's more than a facsimile. English (like Spanish, German, Mandarin) is pluricentric in that it doesn't have one single standard form; it has several standard forms including Aussie English.
mowiciel prawdy
20 Jan 2024 #44
I was talking about the genesis of the master language, which had been created as a pidgin to be used by the best of Normans and the ancestors of the noble master race language speakers, the future self-proclaimed Aryans and selfless civilizators of the Indias, alike, as these gentlemen optioned to drop the garments of their grammar, as the metaphorical fig leave, in order to be able to communicate with each other.

Just like Norwegian, the second casualty, which remained a local pidgin, the noble superior language hasn't changed much ever since, at least if one does not account for the linguistical obesity in the shape of abundant layers of vocabulary which ornament this body positive linguistic product so valued for its practicality today.
mowiciel prawdy
20 Jan 2024 #45
indeed, I would go as far as saying that by meditating upon the history of the superior language in the valley of Kashmir (next to the grave of some prominent EIC employee, but without urinating upon it, as such action would constitute a deeply regretful act of Hindu revisionism in the eyes of any honest Englishman, who, as we may safely assume, would not be aware of the fact that Kashmir is mainly Muslim), one may acquire an enlightenment of the sorts and deeply understand the superiority of square wheels to round wheels. Why having a language if you can have English? Fat is all that really matters - 'the greatest happiness of the greatest number' (c) His Excellence John Stuart Mill
jon357 74 | 22,054
20 Jan 2024 #46
created as a pidgin

More evolved over a long period.

Even now there are regional, social and educational differences about the quantity of Germanic or Latinate words people use, with the first and main alternative always being Germanic.

Norwegian

So close to danish in one of its forms
Novichok 4 | 7,962
20 Jan 2024 #47
Why having a language if you can have English?

If we all spoke English there would be no wars. See Illinois and Indiana - the two adjacent states that cannot be any more apart...
mowiciel prawdy
20 Jan 2024 #48
I don't know about you, but I have been told by my parents that I should avoid germs, as they could be lethal. Germs are also very competitive - they always try to destroy each other, even as two different kinds of germs infect the same host.
mowiciel prawdy
20 Jan 2024 #49
There is solution. Solution will allow people like me do thing. Thing is welcoming American comeback in Europe. Americans should forbid complex sentences. Maybe developing AI which breaks down bad sentences, avoids bad grammar.
mafketis 37 | 10,898
20 Jan 2024 #50
So close to danish in one of its forms

In writing, not speech..... even in writing it takes me an average of about three seconds to tell if a text is norwegian or danish (enough of the most common words are distinct that it's pretty easy)
jon357 74 | 22,054
20 Jan 2024 #51
In writing

This is true. The pronunciation differs hugely.
mowiciel prawdy
20 Jan 2024 #52
my favorite is Icelandic, it is probably the best-preserved of all Germanic languages, plus the scriptures are partially extant. I cannot help feeling that the Icelanders are also friendly and nice people in general (that is not to say that nordmenn og svensker er så ubehagelige mennesker - tvert imot, i hvert fall for en som hadde en glede å bo i Tyskland for en stund; språket deres er imidlertid tristhetens kvintessens). I like finding all these twisted Slavic words in Icelandic, the language somehow doesn't feel so alien and deprived as other modern Germanic languages.
mowiciel prawdy
20 Jan 2024 #53
I would also kill for a copy of Hringadróttinssaga in Icelandic, as the Englishmen say (now, I wouldn't actually kill anyone for a book, it is just a rather uncouth saying like e.g. 'oszwabić' in Polish)
mowiciel prawdy
20 Jan 2024 #54
by the way, do you think that Englishmen actually killed each other for a book when they were still poor i.e. before they robbed other countries e.g. brought 25235235423423 kg of gold from India in exchange for deforestation, molestation, and other progressive things? books used to be expensive in the Middle Ages...
jon357 74 | 22,054
21 Jan 2024 #55
I cannot help feeling that the Icelanders are also friendly and nice people in general

Generally they are neither.

It's an interesting place for a holiday but has a very dark side to it.

The language is curious though.

Englishmen

British people. The most enthusiastic colonists tended to be Scots.
Alien 20 | 4,979
21 Jan 2024 #56
The most enthusiastic colonists tended to be Scots.

Apparently it was too cold for them in Scotland... and those skirts on top of that.
pawian 223 | 24,390
21 Jan 2024 #57
Is it possible to master the Polish language fluently for a non-Polish speaker?

Yes, but only extremely intelligent and talented people are really successful.
Alien 20 | 4,979
21 Jan 2024 #58
extremely intelligent

This isn't true at all. Learning a language has little to do with intelligence. Look at PF. A fluent English speaker with reduced intelligence would also be available. I will immediately add that my English is not fluent.
pawian 223 | 24,390
21 Jan 2024 #59
A fluent English speaker with reduced intelligence would also be available.

If you mean Ironside, then it is a wrong example. His English isn`t fluent as he constantly takes advantage of various programmes which make his posts intelligible. Without them, he would write like kindergarten kid.
pawian 223 | 24,390
21 Jan 2024 #60
I will immediately add that my English is not fluent.

Do you exploit writing software like Irom???


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