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Is it possible to master the Polish language fluently for a non-Polish speaker?


mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #91
good try, Sherlock, but what did you sniff before writing me, a speaker of three Slavic languages, that this abomination that you call English language is more flexible than an actual language?
pawian 223 | 24,390
22 Jan 2024 #93
that is you

Claims without proofs are considered invalid. HA!
Thank you for your attention. hahahaha

a speaker of three Slavic languages,

No, you can`t speak any. If you could, you would participate freely in Polish threads. So far, I haven`t seen you there. :)_:)_:)

he gets educated

You got the directions wrong. It is me who educates people here, not the other way round. hahahaha
Novichok 4 | 7,962
22 Jan 2024 #94
To "master" Polish you have to be born and live in Poland. Even then there are no guarantees...if you listen to Poles conversing...

Hey, K, you forgot Kalisha.
jon357 74 | 22,054
22 Jan 2024 #95
abomination that you call English language

One of the world's great languages (not a term that fits Polish well) and the language with by far the largest literary corpus.

sniff

You mean snort.

Sherlock

??
mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #96
No, you can`t speak any. If you could, you would participate freely in Polish threads. So far, I haven`t seen you there. :)_:)_:)

proszę pana, nie jestem w stanie pana przekonać, jeśli pan nie chce czytać moich wiadomości po polsku, napisałem ich już mnóstwo.

You got the directions wrong. It is me who educates people here, not the other way round. hahahaha

edukacja to coś, co zdobywasz studiując, a nie czytając fora. jednak polecam panu przeczytanie kilku książek o historii Europy.

To "master" Polish you have to be born and live in Poland. Even then there are no guarantees...if you listen to Poles conversing...

this is very true - I have been studying Polish literature and got to know that there are so many words that neither I nor my Polish friends know. thankfully, there is wikislownik, I don't know what would I do without it.

I do hope that certain people will one day realize that the language they speak leaves a great deal to be desired, to put it mildly, and maybe decide to reintroduce at least some flexibility into it. so many people speak this language which, however, fails to serve as a tool, or rather a vessel, for anything literary. I do like Yeats and Carrol, Tolkien and Hemingway, but literally all of them sound better in a translation into a language which has that flexibility. English is just so imprecise.

curiously, it is the other way round in the case with Dostoyevsky, also a great writer but unfortunately not a real master of his own language. Polish, Hindi, Spanish, French, and even German translations sound better than the original to me.
mafketis 37 | 10,897
22 Jan 2024 #97
Free of nuance, colour, flexibility, charm and humour.

And often sounds very rude, which is understandable since politeness expressions, like expletives, tend to not have much force for the second language learner.

It serves a purpose I guess but I prefer to use it as little as possible....
pawian 223 | 24,390
22 Jan 2024 #98
napisałem ich już mnóstwo.

Really? I missed them. Probably because I don`t pay much attention to unregistered posters - I consider them accidental tourists or in cases like Poloniusz who exploited the unregistered account of ShytonuBrits for a few months - azholes.
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
22 Jan 2024 #99
Polish has an exceptionally elaborate morphology, complete
with a conservative system of productive prefixed verbs which
require a more subtle usage than their English equivalents.The
concept of "imperfective" vs. "perfective" can drive many a learner
to distraction!

For example, "pisac" (to be engaged in the act of writing) vs. "NApisac" (to have completed the act of writing) vs. "pisYWac" (to be continually writing),

and finally "ROZpisYWac" (to write until one's fingers are about to fall off, figurately speaking of course) etc...

English requires explanation more than translation, whereas in Polish, the prefixes themselves do all the work.
mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #100
Really? I missed them. Probably because I don`t pay much attention

wybaczam panu. wiem, że łatwo jest nie zauważyć pewnych rzeczy. tak, szczególnie dzisiejsi młodsi ludzie mają trudności ze zrozumieniem nawet podstawowych rzeczy, na przykład tego, że głosowanie na Niemców jest dla nich na dłuższą metę złe. a może być nawet gorzej, na przykład gdy obce siły, które łamią zasady międzynarodowe jak również podstawowe zasady przyzwoitości, próbując ingerować w wybory w suwerennym państwie, nagle przedstawiają charyzmatycznego przywódcę, takiego jak Hitler, Putin czy Roosevelt, aby zapewnić sobie przetrwanie po niechlubnej aferze za granicą, która zrujnowała ich gospodarkę, kosztem Polaków.
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
22 Jan 2024 #101
Dziekuje za objasienie, Panie Profesorze!
pawian 223 | 24,390
22 Jan 2024 #102
I hate pawian

Like most of us

Welcome to the club!

that is you who is

:):):)

You don`t really hate me. You hate yourself. How? Simple. You are fully aware that being what you are, namely rightist sickos and other azholes, you are despised by decent people and monkeys. You would like to be appreciated like all human beings crave but you can`t change your azholing ways, so you subconsciously start hating yourself for your inability to become decent guys like others. You know you are doomed to be rejected in decent circles and you wrongly presume you hate them for that.

BTW, a memo to all azholes - I am proud of being hated by you as you claim. If I wasn`t, it would mean there is sth wrong. Fortunately, everything goes according the the great monkeyish plan: you hate me while I have a laugh. hahahaha buhahaha
mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #103
You mean snort.

exactly. it was my guess that you were snorting cocaine since your words made so much sense to me. I will leave you to your civilized dreams. by the way, please consider trainings - maybe they will make you less fat.

pawian, as said, I do not hate you. I only said that because I thought that you hated me, but as soon as I realized that you do not, I at once stopped pretending that I do, and even informed you about that. I cannot really hate a Pole, not even a Pole who betrayed his country. one day you will understand.
pawian 223 | 24,390
22 Jan 2024 #104
even informed you about that.

I missed that again. Please, register, coz now I can`t make myself treat you seriously. I either skip your posts or read them with a bit superficial attitude. :):):)
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
22 Jan 2024 #105
@Mowiciel prawdy,
I find it interesting if nothing else, that one of the master stylists
in the English language, Joseph Conrad, was a Pole who didn't
learn English until his was a young merchant seaman.

They say he spoke with a heavy Polish accent, yet his writing
seems to reveal no such interference.
Never once did I suspect he was anything but a native English
speaker until I was in my last year in high school and learned
he was a Pole from a well-born family.
Lenka 5 | 3,475
22 Jan 2024 #106
pisYWac" (to be continually writing),

To write casually, from time to time
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
22 Jan 2024 #107
Ah, I see. My mistake. Thank you, Lenka.
Guess I was easily mislead by the "-ywac" suffix:-)
Lenka 5 | 3,475
22 Jan 2024 #108
Guess I was easily mislead by the "-ywac" suffix:-)

That will quite often give the same result e.g. czytywać, bywać, grywać
mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #109
@Lyzko, I wonder how the accents work sometimes. at some point of time in my life, I was repeatedly mistaken for either an American (by Britons) or a Briton (by Americans), or for someone rich (by Turks, I lived in Istanbul for a short while), but by now I have got that horrible German 'l' and 'v' instead of 'w' and can hear it myself but seem to be unable to fix - my conclusion is that if you speak a language A too often, then all other languages that you can theoretically speak (but do not do that too often) will also sound a bit more like the language A. I hope that one day I will also have a heavy Polish accent when I speak English!
mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #110
@pawian, will you vote for PiS and prosperity if I register?
pawian 223 | 24,390
22 Jan 2024 #111
will you vote for PiS

Are you crazy? Even if you use rats on me like in 1984, I will never vote for the Big Brother.

PS. You need to use sharks on me. Then I might reconsider. hahahahaha
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
22 Jan 2024 #112
Much appreciated!
mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #113
@pawian, how many sharks and of what species? and how influential are you among the defectors, I mean, in the PO hierarchy?
mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #114
we also have crocodiles, some of which look quite similar to Tusk, and little teapots, short and stout, in which one can drown rabbits while frustrated, but we prefer to call Big Brother with another name today. his name is Nobody. Nobody really cares, and Nobody keeps election promises. would you not consider working for us for free?
pawian 223 | 24,390
22 Jan 2024 #115
Sorry, we are going off topic. I have to put a stop to it.
mowiciel prawdy
22 Jan 2024 #116
@pawian, you are absolutely right. I will also register (probably in a week or so), as a gesture of goodwill, and hope that you will also one day stop being ashamed of supporting your country.
jon357 74 | 22,054
22 Jan 2024 #117
yet his writing
seems to reveal no such interference.

You can feel it (some of his charm comes from his heterodox style) and of course novels were proofread and edited as much then as now.
Lyzko 45 | 9,420
23 Jan 2024 #118
Yes, you're doubtless correct. Imagine the editing required for a foreign
author, much less for a native English speaking one:-)
mafketis 37 | 10,897
24 Jan 2024 #119
novels were proofread and edited as much then as now.

yes... I read somewhere his published work (as brilliant as it often is) was very heavily edited from the original manuscript, first by his wife (who had no special education but in that context that could be an advantage).
jon357 74 | 22,054
24 Jan 2024 #120
@mafketis
Exactly that, and that's part of the strength of Conrad.

The quality is in the plot devices (just think of Nostromo) rather than the prose. He was a male writer writing for male readers, sort of the opposite of Virginia Woolf with her subtle thoughts conveyed in complex prose and very little action.

his wife (who had no special education

A very underrated person. He can't have been easy to live with however they seem to have been a devoted couple.


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