History / An Israeli Song that its origin is Polish - Please, help to identify it! [4]

The song is described (in Hebrew) as a Ukrainian tune and the Hebrew words were written by Abba Chushi about the death of Yosef Trumpeldor. He was a decorated veteran of the Russo-Japanese war who came to Palestine and served in the Jewish Batallion of the British army fighting against the Turkish army. He then founded and settled in a small farming village, Tel Chai, in the northern tip of today's Israel, an area that the French had controlled and then abandoned. The settlement was surrounded and attacked by local Arabs , and Trumpeldor led the defense. He and three others were killed. They were actually the first Jews killed in battle since the conflict between Jews and Arabs began. So he became a symbol of Jewish bravery and this song was written about him.

Life / Stereotypes about Polish people being stupid? [281]


I'll let you know if I find it. But if you want another book about Lodz in that period read "The Brothers Ashkenazi" by IJ Singer (IBS's older brother). It goes through 2 generations from the 19th century through the Bolshevik revolution tracing the lives of industrialists, revolutionaries, jews, germans, russians and poles in Lodz. No character comes out all good or all bad. They're all very human.

He wrote the book in Yiddish, but it was translated to a lot of languages, probably including Polish.
Link: pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracia_Aszkenazy

Life / Stereotypes about Polish people being stupid? [281]


Sometimes a work of art not meant to be antisemitic in the original context can still have an antisemitic effect to a different audience in a different time. So I don't know if that businessman was wrong. But I think I'll go look for that book in the library now.

Genealogy / THE MEANING AND RESEARCH OF MY POLISH LAST NAME, SURNAME? [4500]


No. Never heard of it.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


Correct. But he was Polish, and Lvov was then a Polish city. I'm not sure what Vox and Lyzko are arguing about but it was a very strong movie.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


You've convinced me to some extent: Even if in some periods many segments of Polish society were less than friendly to Jews, it is a good thing that Poles today take pride in the acceptance Polish Kings showed to Jews. The things we take pride in reflect our values.

Your points about Jews mistreating Palestinians are a different matter. It's a whole different discussion and I think you're misinformed. I agree that we're not victims anymore. But just because we're not victims doesn't mean that we're perpetrators. In any case, that's a discussion that has nothing to do with Polish-Jewish history. If you brought it up to point out that Jews aren't perfect and now that we have sovereignty we're sometimes nasty - I'll agree to that. We're only human and under a lot of pressure. But the Israel - Arab conflict is a long complex process, and the Israeli-Palestinian aspect of it can't be looked at as a separate issue of majority vs minority. It's much more complex because in the region Israel is by far the minority. If you want a serious discussion of Israel-Arab relations this isn't the right forum.


His thesis is so ridiculous that it can't be taken seriously by anyone with any knowledge of Jewish history. The Jews considered themselves a People in the Biblical period (read the Bible. It's everywhere), in the Greek period (the Hasmonean wars against the Hellenists) Roman period (revolution against Rome), in the Talmudic period (it's full of references to "Israel" as a nation) and throughout the middle ages. It would be ludicrous to think that Jews saw themselves as Germans or Frenchmen when they came to those lands before there was such a thing as German or French nationhood. The Jews never considered themselves anything but a nation in exile until modern times.

If anything is a recent development it's the idea that Jews are not a nation but just a religion followed by random people around the world (as in "Germans of the Mosaic Faith") That was the modern invention that only started in the 19th century. The national identity of Israel (the word referred to the People before it referred to the state) is older and more established than that of any nation except maybe the Chinese and the Greeks. Shlomo Sand is an idiot with an agenda.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]

Poland was obviously a more desirable location for Jews than some other countries otherwise they wouldn't have migrated there. But for Polish people to take credit for that or be proud of that is mistaken. If Poland was hospitable to Jews in certain periods it was thanks to the kings. Peasants had no say in the matter, townspeople were hostile to Jews as a competing element, local noblemen were usually against the Jews (especially when they owed them money) and the Catholic clergy were openly anti-Jewish. Once the Polish People had their independence after WWI we see how hospitable they were to Jews.

But I agree that to talk about a "terrible past for Jews in Poland" is misleading too. Except for the mid 20th century the Jewish past was worse in other countries.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


270 million?! I know quite a lot about Jewish history and I never heard anyone make such a claim. There was plenty of discrimination against Jews in Arab countries and there were certainly pogroms during some periods. But that number of dead has no connection with reality.

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]


No. It would be better to live in Israel. What is it you're looking for?

Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [269]


מכל המדינות בעולם דווקא בפולין אתה רוצה לחיות?


Why ask these people? You should ask Jews who live there how it feels.

Genealogy / I have Jewish DNA, but only know of Polish ancestry . [120]

An event that's not recorded in the bible: Yafeth and Ham were teasing Shem, as brothers often do, and Shem went and complained to their father Noah. After Noah told the other two to behave themselves, Jafeth mumbled angrily, "You can't criticize Shem any more without being called an anti-Shemite."

Genealogy / I have Jewish DNA, but only know of Polish ancestry . [120]


OK. I have Jewish DNA too. (hmm...... It's so boring to stay on topic).

Genealogy / I have Jewish DNA, but only know of Polish ancestry . [120]


It's not so complicated. Three thousand years ago, a tribe in the middle east called Hebrews started their own religion. This people became a nation and for more than 2000 years they almost only married among themselves even while scattered around the world. So Jews are not racially different than other middle eastern people, but they maintained a defined gene pool, a language and culture and a connection to a specific territory. So we are a national/ethnic group that's defined in part by its religion.

Life / Help me find this Polish band and song.... [117]


Doesn't sound like Yiddish at all.

Love / My Polish wife's family hate me. Maybe it is because I'm black. Advice needed. [87]


Nonsense.


If you mean "Schvartzer", that is just "Black" in Yiddish and German. It's only nasty if it's said in a nasty context.


You're making this up. I just read the chapter you referred to. All it says is that Miriam and Aharon spoke about the Ethiopian woman that Moses married. But it doesn't even say what they said about her. Then it says that she criticized Moses saying that he wasn't the only one that G-d spoke to. How you can conclude from this unclear event that Jews has always been against blacks is beyond my understanding. And apparently you think that Moses and his family were Ashkenazim? That's a bit of an anachronism since the Ashkenazi community didn't start to form till the middle ages, about 2500 years later. Do you suppose Moses spoke Yiddish too?

Nicki, you have a lot to learn about Judaism and Jews. Learning a few phrases in Hebrew doesn't give you real knowledge of what being Jewish is about. My advice is to learn before you speak.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


No one said "stupid peasants" but you. In my opinion, people were manipulated, whether they were peasants or business owners in towns. And they were manipulated by other Poles. This is not to say that they didn't have grievances, but that the grievances were exploited by the ruling classes to deflect criticism from them and focus it on the Jews.

Peasants were manipulated all over Europe in one way or another for centuries. That's why they were peasants. I'm not saying "Poles are stupid" like you think I am. I am saying that peasants, who were kept uneducated and uninformed were easy to manipulate by people in power. The manipulators were no less Polish than the peasants. This is true for Russia and Ukraine too. You're right that the Polish examples I gave were not about the peasants. I said from the beginning that my "analysis" wasn't specifically about Poland, and applied more to Ukraine. There I think it was more peasant anger that was deflected toward the Jews, but not only.

The point of my comments were not to make fun of Polish peasants at all, but to say that Yerrik's statements (that Jews were given extra privileges over Poles) was anachronistic and malicious.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


I wasn't talking about Poland only - most pogroms were in other parts of the Russian empire, especially Ukraine. So my examples are not just in Poland. Here are some:

Kalisz 1542, 1557
Warsaw, May 1790
Odessa 1821
Warsaw, Christmas 1881
Kiev and 64 other towns in Russia 1881
Kishinev, Easter 1903
Bialystok 1906
You can google them to find out more details about these and other pogroms.
There were pogroms after WWI too, but that gets into the whole issue of nationalism after the breakup of the Russian Empire, so thats for a different discussion.

I also left out the cossack uprisings in 1648 against the Polish landowners, which killed thousands of Jews, because that was part of a wider conflict.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


Without going into your obvious bias, I want to clear up a misconception. In Medieval Europe (till the enlightenment) every individual belonged to a certain segment of society whether they wanted to or not. There were the serfs, burghers, guild members, clergy, aristocrats and so on. Society (or the kingdom) imposed different rights and obligations to each of the groups. For example, Jews could work with money but they couldn't own land or be admitted to guilds. Catholic clergy had advantages over townspeople, and the aristocrats owned huge areas of land including whole towns and villages. When the government taxed Jews they didn't ask each one to file a statement of income; they went to the head of the community and told him how much tax the Jews had to give him, and they paid as a community, not as individuals. No one in medieval society could choose what sector he's belong to – not serfs, not Jews not noblemen and not craftsmen – and no one questioned it. That situation wasn't invented by Jews any more than it was invented by serfs. And none of this really changed much until the 19th century. So to say that Jews had priviliges or advantages over other Poles is an anachronism. There was no concept in those days of any sort of equality, people weren't thought of as individuals but as groups and each group got screwed by some other group.

When your millions of of oppressed peasants got too upset at their predicament, the ruling class (nobility or church) had a good way for them to let off steam – they blamed it on the Jews and encouraged pogroms. Then things quieted down. The problem is that many peasants never saw through this manipulation, and they believed the lies that were told to them. Some, like you, still believe it today.

History / What do Poles owe to Jews? [586]


I think that came to Poland from Turkey. It's everywhere in the middle east.

History / What do Poles owe to Jews? [586]


You are so right. I think that we Jewish people should send all our bagels back to Poland where they belong. What would you like on your bagel?

History / What do Poles owe to Jews? [586]

[quote=pawian]I am sorry but I suppose you mistake two products:

I am sorry but you mistake two kinds of Jews.
The bagel you show as "Jewish Bagel" is known in Israel as an American Bagel.
The one you show as "Krakow bagel" is what they sell in Israeli grocery stores and kiosks. But they just call it a "Baigeleh".

It comes with poppy seeds, sesame seeds or sesame+zaatar (a middle east spice). It has a sprinkling of salt too.

History / Khazar migrations to Eastern Poland, Belarus, and Ukraine [106]


It's true. I'm not a Khazar from other sites. And a lot of my friends aren't too.

History / Khazar migrations to Eastern Poland, Belarus, and Ukraine [106]


If anything, the name Segal indicates that you are a Levite and there couldn't have been any Khazari Levites.
What's this fixation on the Khazars? It's like a modern englishman insisting that his family are Druids and that he has an irresistable urge to put big stone slabs in a circular pattern. If you're a Jew that should be enough to make you proud. Why look for an imaginary identity? And what's with the "warrior" thing? Do you wear a hat with horns and run around with a cape too?

History / Khazar migrations to Eastern Poland, Belarus, and Ukraine [106]


You talk like a comic book character. Let me be clear: No one denies that there was once a people called the Khazars - this is historic fact. And it's probably true that their rulers adopted the Jewish religion. But there are no Jews today who have a family tradition that can trace their families back to the khazars. You claim that you know you're a Khazar and I say you're making it up because it makes you feel special. It gives you a way to be both Jewish and redneck. There was another joker on this forum who say he's from the tribe of Benjamin. That's also a ridiculous thing to say. All Jews are descended from the tribe of Benjamin, and the tribes of Judah and Levi, and we all probably have some blood of the other tribes because they all married each other. But no jewish family in the world has an actual documented connection with any specific tribe, except the Levis (including the Kohanim) who keep this tradition because they have certain ceremonial functions.

Nothing wrong with feeling a connection to teh Khazars, but don't make up a tradition that doesn't exist. If you're looking for a way to be a tough jew you don't have to look in the far east of russia, you can come to israel and be as tough as you like. Better yet, you'll cause less trouble in russia. Have a good trip.

History / Khazar migrations to Eastern Poland, Belarus, and Ukraine [106]


You hit the nail on the head. The whole reason you and other crackpot jew haters keep bringing up the Khazar story is to attack the legitimacy of the Jews – not just of Israel but of Jews in general. You're saying that we're not who we say we are. (Now this would clear us of killing you lord, since you would put us in central asia on the date of the crime, but who talks about that anymore).

The whole Khazar bullsht is a figment of the imagination. Sure there were Khazars in history but their only recorded descendent is apparently your pal Genecps. They faded out of history a thousand years ago. On the other hand, the Jews just don't fade away. And our little "Project in palestine" is not fading away either. Get used to it – we'll be here long after your sorry ass is long forgotten.

History / Khazar migrations to Eastern Poland, Belarus, and Ukraine [106]


I wouldn't think of denying your whiteness, but don't attribute that to any Khazar background. The Khazars were a turkic people and so they would have been darker than europeans and with central asian features. Nothing like your Irish features. I think you can assume that you, like plenty of Jews, have some white european ancestors who joined the jewish gene pool. But unless you look like Borat, forget the Khazar nonsense.

Genealogy / I have Jewish DNA, but only know of Polish ancestry . [120]

First they were kicked off the farm in poland by their jewish relatives. Then they went to America and continued to pretend they were catholics, even though this was not the dominant religion in America at any time, and even though they didn't believe in it. They really picked a difficult solution. I wonder why they didn't simply move to a Jewish neighborhood and revert to their Jewishness. No wonder you have identification issues. Good luck. I hope you work it out to your satisfaction.

Genealogy / I have Jewish DNA, but only know of Polish ancestry . [120]


I find myself doing that every morning. Can't stop.

Genealogy / I have Jewish DNA, but only know of Polish ancestry . [120]


When you say "crypto-jewish catholics" do you mean they posed as catholics but were really Jews or that they posed as jews but were really catholics? This was in America? Sounds odd. In America I think it's not dangerous to be either a catholic or a jew.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


This guy sounds fake. I'm a Jew, as you all know, and since I was born I've been almost exclusively among Jews, socially, in Synagogues, in school, in yeshiva, in the army, at work, and I must have come in contact with thousands of Jews over the years, in many countries, and read more books and articles than I can count about Jewish subjects. And in all this time and in all these places, I never heard of a single Jew who claims to be a descendent of the Khazars, let alone the "royal family." I've never heard of any such tradition among any Jews anywhere. Not once.

I have a feeling this post was by one of those people who– (a) think that todays Jews are descended from Khazars, and (b) want to show that Poland was always wonderfully accepting of Jews. Say what ever you want, but don't make believe you're a Khazar. I don't even think you're a Jew.