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What is Poles opinion on Intermarium (Międzymorze)?


Crow 136 | 7,388
30 Dec 2017  #31
I wonder what the concept of Intermarium has to do with him

What you now want to say? Man mentioned Pilsudski here and we all know that Pilsudski contemplated on Intermarium. On the other side, idea of encompassing interests from Baltic-to Balkan starting before even Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. It starting with Sarmatia Europae, in tribal unions of Cezch Boii and Serbian Scordisic. In cooperation between Iaziges and Alans and other Sarmatian tribes. It could be seen in efforts of Great Moravia. Etc.

Of course but, Pilsudski gave its contribution to the idea. Those who mentines Piludski in context of Intermarum aren`t drank.

those countries who doesn't want to be vassals to Germany or slaves to Russia must and should cooperate closely

See, exactly it was Piludski that underlined term `between Germany (ie western Europe) and Russia`. So, not against Russia, not against Germany, but for the sake of our independence, our- us from Baltic to Balkan that have our specific interests. That is Pilsudski`s contribution. Balance in Polish politics. On the contrary to idiots and enemies (such is British intellectuals) who want that Intermarium represent creation against Russia. Malevolent, manipulative and evil English who wants everything to use as their own condom.
Ktos 17 | 456
30 Dec 2017  #32
@Ironside

And what you want? Pilsudski has nothing to do with it? He was pushing for it and for other ideas as well. I wonder what Poland you want, because you are very hazy about it, kind of weird.
Ironside 47 | 9,550
30 Dec 2017  #33
He was pushing for it and for other ideas as well.

Allegedly.
I want to say that is not a concept that can be traced back to some or other individual. Geopolitical reality formulated it before anyone named it.
Crow 136 | 7,388
22 Jan 2018  #34
Interesting article by Sputnik - Russia`s Geo-strategists predicts Poland`s success

Here's Why Poland's Intermarium Plans Might Actually Succeed This Time Around
sputniknews.com/columnists/201708191056609393-poland-intermarium-plans-can-succeed/

All in all, Poland's prospects for the successful recreation of the cherished Intermarium of Pilsudski's dreams are higher than at any time in history,

if it's to stand a realistic chance at achieving its goals, but if it can pull it all off, then the country will once again earn its place in history as one of Europe's Great Powers.

Hungary and Serbia are best example how should function incoming Intermarium. In every aspect. From relationship among two countries, among two peoples, on the level of national minorities in both countries. This also includes better and better economic and military cooperation.

Just that we all have Polish language as main official language and picture of Intermarium here would be complete.
Crow 136 | 7,388
8 Feb 2018  #35
Good news for those who have sincere hope that all this chaos in Europe, for us who live from Baltic to Balkan, may finish in formation of Intermarium, our world, free from humiliation, proud with our subtle differences and even learning and enjoying in them, proud with our common interests and, whats most important celebrating our progress in freedom >>>

In Budapest, Hungarian and Serbian governments have evening party today and joint session of two governments tomorrow! Today party and tomorrow work, said Orban

h-s

h-s

h-s

b92/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2018&mm=02&dd=08&nav_category=78&nav_id=1356741

joint session of Hungarian and Serbian governments

Historic high, crucial state: PMs praise Serbia-Hungary ties
b92/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2018&mm=02&dd=09&nav_id=103462&utm_source=B92&utm_medium=Document&utm_campaign=Related-Chrono&utm_content=Historic%20high,%20crucial%20state:%20PMs%20praise%20Serbia-Hungary%20ties

hs

Prime Minister Ana Brnabic says relations between Serbia and Hungary are at their "historically highest level."

---
There are talks on TV in connection to EU (Germany) blackmail of Serbia, conditioning our EU membership with our Kosovo recognition. Serbian president Vucic confirmed that Serbia must hold referendum on EU membership, that people must decide. So, Serbia would continue to meet conditions, opening chapters on membership and when all conditions are met, we would have plebiscite.

By preliminary examination, as expected, at this moment already 80% (and rising) of Serbian public stands firmly against EU membership if conditioned by recognition of Kosovo.

Moreover, as first out of Serbia consequence of this development and continual German pressure on Serbia, Slavic patriots in Czech Republic organized pro-Serbian protest and initiated petition with intent to annul Czech Kosovo recognition. Czech president Zeman supported petition. Klaus, former president of Czech Republic said how Kosovo recognition, under pressure of NATO and EU, stands as biggest shame ever on the face of Czech people.

Be aware of development. Masks rapidly falling down

Hungary blocks OECD membership for Romania, Croatia
bbj.hu/politics/hungary-blocks-oecd-membership-for-romania-croatia_138546

Hungary has joined Slovenia in objecting to Croatia's bid for membership of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

Hungary also questioning Croatian joying to Intermarium, giving priority to Serbia >

Orban: Da rešimo sa Hrvatima... Srbi žele da uđu u "priču"
Orban: To solve with Croats... Serbs wants to enter the ``story``

o

b92/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2017&mm=10&dd=05&nav_category=1262&nav_id=1310910

Poljaci, Česi, Mađari i Slovaci sigurno će postići ozbiljan uspeh zajedno, a mogao bih da dodam i Slovence. Moramo prvo da rešimo određena pitanja sa Hrvatima. Jasno je da Srbi žele da se pridruže uspešnoj priči centralne Evrope.

translation: Poles, Czehs, Hungarians and Slovaks would accomplish serious success together, and I can add Slovenians. We have first to solve some open questions with Croats. Its clear that Serbs wants with us, with successful story of central Europe.

Hungarian video on Croatia`s ustashe collaboration with Ukrainian UPA and joint massacres on Poles in Wolhynia >

Croatia is not Hungary's brother! Reveal the truth of Croatia!

youtu.be/xKOLTl0awsM
Crow 136 | 7,388
28 Jul 2018  #36
News update (I hope that venerable brat Admin won`t merge this post with previous)

Speaking today in Romania, Hungarian PM Orban said that Serbia, same as Montenegro, belongs to Central Europe, not to Balkans. He then also said that Hungary, Hungarians and Serbia, Serbians see each others in same political community, in common future of Central Europe.... What connects Serbians and Hungarians is conflict with imposed forcible multiculturalism, we share Christian values, we value traditional families where every child have right to have father and mother, we share market and have compatible economies.

h

b92/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2018&mm=07&dd=28&nav_category=78&nav_id=1424252
Crow 136 | 7,388
25 Sep 2018  #37
Spot development

Suverenistic political option prevails now in Sweden and Sweden starts to go closer to Central European countries such as Hungary, Serbia and whole Visegrad Group.
Vlad1234 14 | 530
25 Sep 2018  #38
The leaders of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine all expressed desire to enter EU (at least some of them in the past). They aren't going to be accept any time soon and I think that a Slavic Union (which may also include non-Slavic members) could be a good ski jumping rope for them as a preparation before joining EU somewhere in the future.

As a Ukrainian I think that a Polish-Ukrainian Confederacy alone would create a formidable union with 80 million population and 1 million square kilometers territory. Add skillful Polish administration and investment capital to skilled Ukrainian workforce and resources. Russia could be a good possession for a Union as well thanks to its huge resources and technical skills in certain areas. In 2014 Putin expressed desire to create a free trade zone from Portugal to The Pacific. I think that historically Ukraine, Belarus and parts of Russia belong to Europe (or at least originally were), culturally and civilization-wise and all European countries need to rethink their farther integration.
Ironside 47 | 9,550
26 Sep 2018  #39
I think not. No Polish Ukrainian confederacy. Intermarium is out. We have Three Seas Area.
Crow 136 | 7,388
26 Sep 2018  #40
I think not. No Polish Ukrainian confederacy.

Why that now?

Intermarium is out. We have Three Seas Area.

I myself rather talked about New Commonwealth but again, Intermarium (Międzymorze/Medjumurje) also sounds acceptable.

As for Three Seas Area, its solution that actually always can lead to Intermarium. Add Serbia and Ukraine in Three Seas Area and we speak of Intermarium. But if somebody wants to exclude Serbia from Three Seas Area, then Serbia can opt for other solution for itself and suggest formation of Centroslavia or name it as you wish. In that case, in start we can count on Hungary (you heard Orban said he see Hungarians and Serbs in same future integration). Then also Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Czeska and Ukraine. They gravitate to Serbia, while, as I always thought, Poland and Serbia gravitate to each other. Ukraine as it is would gravitate to both- to Poland and to Serbia. So, if Three Seas Area isn`t for Serbia and Ukraine to join then they are territoriality separated, what isn`t acceptable. See, in any case, it means that if somebody excluding Serbia from Three Seas Area, he actually canceling Three Seas Area or simple isn`t realistic. Not to speak that one actually can`t define current Three Seas Area correctly, considering Croatia can`t be considered for a country that has definite borders. In fact, all states that emerged from former Yugoslavia aren`t defined with their real borders. We now have borders that defined communists and then western Europe and US Clinton`s accepted them because it suited them. We yet have to see some future international conference to help in defining real borders.

Ukraine itself also yet to define her real borders. Then, have in mind that all countries that recognized separation of Kosovo from Serbia, actually violated their own sovereignty. Poland for example recognized Kosovo and now, by same principle, Poland can expect Germany to unilaterally recognize separation of Silesia from Poland (same as previously that same Germany unilaterally recognized internal administrative (!) borders within Yugoslavia and that way deliberately fueled Civil War here).
Miloslaw 6 | 1,574
26 Sep 2018  #41
Ridiculous idea.
No benefit to Poland at all.
Crow 136 | 7,388
26 Sep 2018  #42
What then? Nothing?
TheWizard - | 238
26 Sep 2018  #43
I dont like the ukis, would rather team up with africans and Islamists.
Crow 136 | 7,388
26 Sep 2018  #44
Don`t say that. Its not the same. Problem with those who feel ethnic Ukrainians is that Germany have initiative and not Poland. This situation only increases my fear in how Duda directing Poland. And not only Duda but, frankly, previous Polish administration, too. Its like that Germany decided to use NATO and EU on European soil as it suits to Germany while official Poland accepted it.

Before this madness in Europe and world finishes, you would all, together with Serbians sing this song about white breasts of your mothers and about dawn of Sarmatia >

youtube.com/watch?v=g14nVNf0zOI

You don`t know the song but you shall learn
Vlad1234 14 | 530
27 Sep 2018  #45
So, if Three Seas Area isn`t for Serbia and Ukraine to join then they are territoriality separated, what isn`t acceptable.

The distance will not separate a friendly hearts. I write it to you from Canada (smile).
Crow 136 | 7,388
8 Oct 2018  #46
video where are even Iran, Israel, Azerbaijan,.... set in Intermarium >>>>

New Intermarium - Future of Europa - Message to Patriots middle the Seas
youtube.com/watch?v=JxNqpGpru9s

Think about it.... its globalization..... humanity needs massive civilizations for massive production..... Only partially we would be asked. If even partially. Better to say, only something will be as we wish.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,574
8 Oct 2018  #47
I don't like The Russians and The Serbs.....would rather team up with Ukrainians,Slowaks and Croats.....
Vlad1234 14 | 530
9 Oct 2018  #48
With Ukrainians? Really??
Crow 136 | 7,388
9 Oct 2018  #49
I take that Miroslaw as Polish. He is maybe provoker but he present himself as Polish. And I believe him.

But its abominable to me when he says that he don`t like Serbs, don`t like Racowie. And we all know what were Racowie for Poland and Poles. Not to tell that we Serbians take Poles as our own people. Connection is deep as time.

And what is defeating to me is when I sense that some Poles here (people that present themselves as Polish but one on the net never knows) react defensively when I give some critic to Vatican or members of Catholic clergy. As if its my fault if Vatican have blood of my people on its hands and committed crimes equally on Orthodox and Catholic Serbs. Just different kind of crime. But even now I would never say how is Orthodox Church better then Catholic or some similar idiotism. No I would never tell that. That isn`t reason why I giving critics to Vatican here. I don`t promote Orthodoxy (not to tell that we Serbians within Orthodoxy actually celebrate old pre-Christian Slavic faith). As I said, I simple must mention some evil done exactly in order to prevent evil in future. As for comparison of Orthodox and Catholic Church i don`t see real difference. One can`t hardly tell who have more moronic priests or who have worse higher clergy. In both Churches many priests and bishops are sinners, pedophiles, thiefs and liars. Recently, in Serbia, we got many Orthodox priests involved with narcotics what is real scandal these days.

But simple, it happened that during WWII and even now here in region some members of Catholic clergy crossed the red line to tell that way, serving to pure evil of Nazism and hate.
Miloslaw 6 | 1,574
9 Oct 2018  #50
Yes Vlad the Impaler and Crow the jester.....despite the history of animosity between Poles and Ukes,times have moved on.....
We Poles never had any love for Russians and Serbs have no importance....even less so when they show love for Russians....so yes,Ukes

have more in common with Poles than Russians and their Serb little dogs.....I hate those yapping little dogs....
Vlad1234 14 | 530
9 Oct 2018  #51
1) And what kind of cooperation between Poles and Ukrainians or Poland and Ukraine do you suggest?

2) And what are the difference between Russians and Ukrainians do you think?
Spike31 2 | 877
15 Nov 2018  #52
Intermarium [Miedzymorze] and the new project called Three Seas Initiative is the only way for Poland and Central Europe to release itself form grips of German politico-economic project of Mitteleuropa.

For 3SI to truly work it needs to be more than just a political project. All Central European countries should be interconnected with strong economical connections.

So a construction of Via Carpathia highway [which has already started] from Poland to Greece and LNG pipeline from Poland to Croatia are both more important than any political meetings.

My only concern is that I think we shouldn't include Austria in this project cause they may become a trojan horse in the future.


Crow 136 | 7,388
15 Nov 2018  #53
Three Seas Initiative is the only way for Poland and Central Europe............ Croatia are both more important than any political meetings

As you wish. But, you know, its not the only way. Don`t say that Serbian on Polishforums didn`t told it to you. Much better way for official Poland was to have good relations with Serbia and Serbs. We are owners, you know. We are also strongest here in the region. Not to tell that official Poland greatly mistaken for failing to support unity of Serbian ethnic being, unity of Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim Serbs. Imagine that Serbs start to separate Orthodox Poles from Catholic. Imagine if Serbia start to call Kashubs, Lusatians, Silesians, Polabian Poles to show disloyalty to Warsaw?? Imagine that. I assure you after 20 years of Serbian ``propaganda`` what is now Poland would be much much smaller. Plus, not to tell that by betrayal of Serbs (Racowie), official Poland betrayed its historically most loyal partners and oldest allies.

So, any Poland`s deal with `Three Seas Initiative` will anyway finish in future negotiations with Serbs and will depend on Serbs. Slavic part (Dalmatia) of Adriatic coast is stolen from Serbs. Except Slovenian part. But even that little part was for Slavic world won by Serbs.

My only concern is that I think we shouldn't include Austria in this project cause they may become a trojan horse in the future.

Don`t you worry for Austria. Austria is sh** that you obviously recognized. Fear of sh** you don`t expect to come and that is Croatia. Its state created solely by wish of Vatican and Germanics. Its project old 200 years, initiated exactly from Austrian Catholics in order to stab the knife in Serbian ethnic being and form unique nation from Catholic Serbs, at a time when Serb in general were weakened from Ottomans. Croatian nation. Nation that have to be not pro-Germanic but to feel Germanic and that is what children in now Nazi Greater Croatia learning in primary schools - that don`t origin from Slavs but from Germanic Ghots. /aside from fact that even that is delusion because Ghots were branch of Sarmatians partly Romanized/

What I want to tell you, you don`t need to worry of Austria. Fear the knife of those who are convinced Croats. Not that this farce of their will continue for long but, obviously long enough that Poland experience agony.

Then, at the end, you Poles would again come to Serbs which will consolidate in the meantime. Don`t be surprise if official Serbia then say: ``We love Poles, but we can`t trust to Poland (similar to what Polish PM Tusk told to Serbs when stabbed the knife in our back). Why not give chance to bigger Lusatia, Sliesia, Kashubia, bigger Czech Republic,....?

You fear Russians? Germans? No, don`t fear them. They don`t have historical authority. Their historical situation is even worse then Polish, if Slavs start to segment on smaller states. Especially Germany, where we Serbs will initiate re-Slavicization and then initiate formation of new Slavic states.

No, don`t fear them. Fear Serbs. For we shall re-unite. Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim Serbs and we will the re-claim what is ours. Old core of Sarmatia will then re-claim top of Slavic world and Europe. That is how must be.

Its not too late for official Poland.

Intermarium [Miedzymorze] and the new project called Three Seas Initiative is the only way for Poland and Central Europe

Just follow events and you will be surprised how is deeply official Poland involved in pan-Germanic projects against Serbs.

Few hours ago I heard new crazy news on TV. Representative in parliament of false muja-mafia Kosovo state, Enver Hoxhaj started regional journey in order to mobilize, as he said, anti-Serbian pact with Croatia, Montenergo and Macedonia. In all those states local Serbs are majority of populace, no matter are they Orthodox or Catholic. So, Shquiptar (Albanian) terrorists works with rogue regimes in those states and seek to destabilize security in entire region in order to achieve its political aims.

What I want to tell you, what `Three Seas Initiative` project Poland seek to start with Croatia? Its only way Poland`s ruling elite to have closer ties with Germany, while profit on catastrophe of Serbian people. Even if we ignore all other things, Croatia is ready to enter in pact against Serbia. When conflict escalate, its clear Serbs will reclaim what is theirs and once and for all create conditions for real peace in the region.

To give you comparison with Russia-Germany situation. Russia seeks to cooperate with Germany but, Russia, at least not publicly and for all we see, don`t works with Germany on directly anti-Serbian projects. Official Poland doing exactly this.
Crow 136 | 7,388
15 Jan 2019  #54
Great money has been invested in covering real reasons behind dissolution of Yugoslavia. But fortunately we have internet. Still

Speaking in short, I will only tell you that when Vatican and Austria, altogether with Germany and then with our allies that betrayed us- Britain and France, decided to destroy Yugoslavia and to punish Serbs for making appearance of Yugoslavia possible, it was over.

Now, imagine we get Intermarium and Vatican says- ``put it down`` and make more space for expansion of Germanics. Do we go down like it was with Yugoslavia? Or what if Vatican says- ``now go spread the word of real God onto Russians``. Do we all exterminate each others?

I think that Poles have to give many answers to themselves before they ever start to dream of Intermarium.

And answers are necessary. Because, if there is no Intermarium, there won`t be Poland.

Think about that.

I will pray that Poles decide to have their own national Church, Polish Catholic Church, that only symbolically listen to the Vatican. Evil sith in Rome and his evil apprentice in Constantinople are eager to rule and live in luxury. That doesn`t mean that we need to follow them blindly.
Spike31 2 | 877
2 Feb 2019  #55
"Warsaw boosts LNG options and Baltic pipe project in drive to become regional hub"

ft.com/content/d1b9d764-febd-11e8-aebf-99e208d3e521

That's a very important step which will not only boost economic independence of Poland but also make Central Europe less not dependant on Russian gas from both sources: russian pipelines and German "Opal" pipeline pumping gas from NorthStream.

This will basically change the entire game for Central Europe, V4 and Intermarium and make those regional political and economical alliances possible.
delphiandomine 84 | 17,591
2 Feb 2019  #56
This will basically change the entire game for Central Europe.

Not really. It's a Warsaw fantasy, but the reality is that expensive Norwegian gas and expensive US LNG will not replace Russian gas, especially for countries such as Hungary which have just signed lovely long term deals with Gazprom.

hungarytoday.hu/szijjarto-hungary-enter-long-term-gas-delivery-agreement-russia-2021/

Slovakia also has little interest in it, as they're in the middle of a long term gas deal with Russia.

Consider that the cost at delivery will be higher than Russian gas (whether it's direct or via Germany), and that Poland will also want large fees for storage/transit, it's simply going to be completely uncompetitive against the price of Russian gas.

So, it's actually not a game changer at all, but rather a way to lock Poland into hugely expensive gas supplies and to increase dependence on Poland on the US, neither of which is a desirable outcome.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,708
2 Feb 2019  #57
especially for countries such as Hungary which have just signed lovely long term deals with Gazprom.

Agreed!

Orban is by far not as hostile to Putin/Russia as PiS-Warsaw wishes, quite the contrary. They are not that steadfast allies in Brussels either (Tusk election)...

Vladimir Putin and Viktor Orban hail ties and discuss energy and finance

irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-and-viktor-orban-hail-ties-and-discuss-energy-and-finance-1.3633439

I wonder if there ever will be a functional, close V4 without Hungary and the Czechs....

The V4 will never agree on Russia

euractiv.com/section/central-europe/news/the-v4-will-never-agree-on-russia/

...The Hungarian government disguises its pro-Russian stance behind a mask of pragmatism.In the Czech Republic, conversely, President Miloš Zeman openly espouses pro-Russian views....

What makes it so difficult for Warsaw seems to be the little fact that most if not all possible anti-Brussel allies are also deeply in Putin's pocket. Wich makes any anti-Brussel + anti-Putin stance by PiS to a quite isolated and hardly viable one, longterm....
Ironside 47 | 9,550
2 Feb 2019  #58
Not really. I

Sure, Dealphian hath spoken. What do you know chicken?

They are not that steadfast allies in Brussels either (Tusk election)...

What that even mean? What Brussels ever done for Poland? Rather Russia is hostile to Warsaw. It has nothing to do with PiS.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,708
2 Feb 2019  #59
So...do you think it's one sided from Moscow only? What would they get out of it?
Ironside 47 | 9,550
2 Feb 2019  #60
do you think it's one sided from Moscow only?

Is that not obvious?


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