Destruction of Ukrainian churches in Poland in 1938

You're sick.

Sad, adjusting my quote and changing it into sth completely different is just plain proof that you're not capable of discussing with me. Now, don't discuss with me anymore. You're not smart enough to do so. Goodbye Iron, sad little boy.

I've been patient with you enough.

>^..^<

M-G (Iron is a sad mofo)

You mean ukrainians saw polish children and women as enemies? Is that why they skinned our women alive and burned polish infants?


They're both intimately connected MG, you cannot discuss about polish policies without mentioning what exactly Poles were opposing and suppressing.

The extent of murder and atrocities commited by ukrainians proves that Poles were absolutely correct in their perception of ukrainians as barbaric monsters, of course there were decent ukrainians but they were a minority.

First ukrainians helped to snuff out the Jews, then they did the same to Poles albeit with incomparable cruelty.

yes, you can but you have failed to show the connection between those two events. Instead, you brought the attention to Volyn, as if there were only two events in Polish - Ukrainian history. I am beginning to think that you just don't know anything else besides Volyn.

You mean between ukrainians murdering Poles and Poles attempting to supress ukrainian terrorism?

Looks like you are losing it. Tsk tsk. Where are your manners and self control?



Anything for you, dear.


And so you can't claim I did not contribute to your lousy thread - there are some other ideas for your consideration, in case you had an urge to start a new one:The US pushed a peace-loving Japan into WWII. Poland started the war with Germany. Finland attacked Mother Russia. There were only a few hundred thousand Jews in Europe to begin with, so there's no way millions could have been killed. France's irrational behavior aggravated Hitler and caused him to abandon his diplomatic initiatives. Winston Churchill was the ultimate agent provacateur. The Katyn massacre in 1940 of Polish officers was a collective suicide.The Chinese provoked Japan by brutally throwing themselves in front of their tanks. And the Dutch put an embargo on German tulips and chocolates so they got what was coming to them. Oh, and the men on Battaan March were just taking a little jaunt through the jungle for exercise.

Revisionist bs'ers under the guise of history give me a pain in my cute derriere.

M-G, because of you, I have to wash my underware. Thanks, though :))


If you don't like history why don't you go and look more on your derriere instead of drawing your comments from it and wasting PF's space.

It is sad that Poland and Ukraine had a time in history of extreme violence. The fact is, it did happen and on both sides. Please see the link below. The word 'Vołyniec' meant something derogatory in my home. Maybe it is because some of my mother's siblings (not her) were born in Eastern Kresy where my maternal grandparents owned a couple of water mills. As far as I remember from some stories they moved back to Poland fearing for their lives. I wish I knew more about my grandparents experience but they died when I was a kid and I lost my parents early too. Based on my mom's total aversion to Ukrainian people tells me that she did not have a happy childhood there.

There many incidents like this one.

bellaonline.com/articles/art67739.asp

Well, don't you agree with my attitude ? I agree that Poles and Ukrainians issues are no so imminent, nobody dies now !
In case of Israel people are killed daily - your moral compass is right !
However thread topic is about historical issues.


Oh no ! See, you were writing about something completely different - if you would put in the place of Israel and Palestinians name that of Poland and Ukrainians it would be a absolute gibberish, double Dutch and so on ..because it simply doesn't no fit, history, circumstances. So I realised that you are writing about something else - and bingo!

Fits like a skin !


Well, I'll grant you your wish if you are so afraid to discus issues but I'll comment nevertheless.


that not nice M-G but I understand the pressure you are undergoing - because of your Jewish origin everyone expect you to be smart, let me help you - shmondac is Jewish expression I believe.


Goodbye MareG, the greatesthypocriteIhaveeverknown, I like you nevertheless, believe it or not I have shed a tear, sad thing thought, enmity over historical issue, well ?!


thank you kindly, patients is a virtue seldom seen.


Well, what mofo means ? is that some kind of sophisticated insult ?

This thread is far too hysterical for my liking, so let us just stick to the facts.

fact 1: Poland did Polonise the Ukrainians, destoyed orthodx churches etc.

Fact 2: If the Ukrainians in Poland's eastern area did not belong to the Polish sate, they would would have belonged to a Russified Ukrainian state going through purges and starvation. And if you had a chance to reflect on this situation from a historical perspective, and were of right and rational mind and had the choice, there would be no way you would choose to stay in the Russian sphere of influence.

Fact 3: The Ukrainian reaction during the war was most defiantly out of proportion and Extremely cruel.

Maybe they wanted to be part of an independent Ukraine? An independent Ukraine including the Ukrainian territories occupied by Poland?


This sounds weird coming from sb who just told me to be humble. By revisionist bs'ers, I take it you aim at Sokidoki and Ironside? And besides, maybe you should try to add sth to this discussion instead of painting the atmosphere or giving evidence of your disliking of some posters? The latter is namely not really relevant to anybody or anything, you see.


Because of the original post or the changes Iron made to it when quoting it?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

M-G, you understand the issue much better than people who study the history about this issue since early childhood. They are not able to draw simple conclusions by the mere way of putting oneself in the mentioned historical circumstances. Only Poles can be willing to be independent from invaders, others have to choose between bad Russians and sweet like sugar Poles. Ukrainians, in Polish highest IQ minds in Europe, were acting irrationally.


Mostly the changes by Iron, but also the way you put it that Polish sarcasm radar failed to pick up the signal. No surprise, but still :)

what are you babbling about ?
Of course I can put myself into Ukrainian place!
I have been studying this issue long and hard.
The conclusion:
Fact is that all the territories (where Ukrainians were living) doesn't means that should belong to Ukrainian state.
Specially as there is no other reason why Lwow should belong to Ukraine and when Ukrainians are such newcomers to nationhood.
As I said - in 1918 they were offered compromise but preferred war, when lost they found war fruits to be not to their testes.
However, Wolyn done it for good - you lost all moral right to said lands!
You claim it to be an Soviet act, maybe there were some NKVD agents but main bulk of criminals were Ukrainian Nazi - UPA!

Myth about long occupation by Poland is just that myth!

Good point. If Ukrainians complain today that this short stint at polonization was harsh, it looks like a kid's play in comparison to what was happening in almost the same time in Soviet part of Ukraine.


You can't help yourself, do you. Try for once in your life to win an argument without cheating so someone may take you seriously one day.

Quite right: Poland signed a treaty committing itself to the existence of a Ukrainian state and then when the Ukrainians were no longer needed, Poland sold that state to the USSR.

Well, the Polish army was well equipped back then by the Western Allies and supervised by experienced French generals in order to fight the Bolsheviks, not a make-shift army like that of the Republic of Western Ukraine. Poles can say that they did it all on their own, but I would say it was mainly due to the help of friends that they could win the war against the RWU. I have yet to see them so successful if they hadn't been helped by the West.


Try for once in your life to win an argument without personal attacks and actually contributing to a discussion.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Their army would be smaller by about 10% if they didnt get help from the West, not much of a difference, they'd still win.


Neither is true, French sent only some rifles and the blue army which in the larger scheme of things did not matter that much and french generals proposed strategies that would see Poland fail.

It was only the polish commanders who won the battle.

Try for once in your life to make some sense you piece of a blotting paper.

Exactly. It is nothing of surprise, though. Poland signed an agreement with Czechoslovakia in 1925 too, which it betrayed in 1938 by invading this country.


Again posting your derriere thoughts in here? Stop it, please. Say something intelligent for a change.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War

So, it definitely mattered as you feared to fight yourself and had to send well-equipped French army. Also lying about bolshevism and Ukrainians to get to use the French looks so low and unhonorable. Again, this is nothing new to Poland.

exactly what ??


what are you talking about ?some delusions ?

Nathan Poland was redirecting 120.000 men from Greater Poland anyway, ukrainians were down the creek without a paddle in this war, you lost just like you lost every other war against Poland.

The only time ukrainians win was against women and children, when they were about to face polish armies they, as always failed.

Some of ukrainian victories against unarmed polish civilians: strasznezbrodnie.blox.pl/html

Especially the pit filled with children shows how heroic and noble was the average ukrainian in his struggle for freedom, i mean those polish children were vicious! Especially at 5 years old!

I guess thats why the noble ukrainians killed them using mallets, hammers, sickles, knives and bayonets and piled them into that pit.

But to further show how heroic ukrainians were we cant forget that they formed an SS division fighting for Nazi Germany - heroic and noble SS Galizien who killed only those elderly and children who deserved it!

ukrainian SS.

The remains of polish civilians, proud freedom fighting ukrainian SS must've been proud when it shot people who had no way of defending themselves, question is where was UPA and SS galizien when polish soldiers came back to the eastern provinces? Oh right hiding in the woods.

Say something true for a change.

And you are going off topic; open your new thread if you want to discuss Polish-Ukrainian war of 1919. This way this thread will go forever.

Quite unlike the 100,000+ Poles who joined the German armed forces (89,300 of whom later changed sides to save themselves, but only once the war had been pretty much decided).

Well at least everybody, except you, is trying to add sth to the discussion. You only deem it necessary to add your personal feelings here, injected with of course your usual insults, where they are totally out of place.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Jesus dude you're the last who can make such claims, not only do you run your mouth but quite often fail to back it, stick to the discussion and try not shooting people like you always do.

We're talking ukrainian crimes and polish war of independence, where did that flamewar with bzi came from?

Experience learns me that when I do, you're nowhere to be found afterwards. And about running mouths, I guess we're pretty equal in that respect. Only I don't use as many insults like you do.


Just read back. I didn't start it. It came out of nowhere as bibi's attacks usually do.


We were actually discussing the destruction of Ukrainian churches by Poles, see the title of the thread :)

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

that is the whole idea:)

Dont see any relevant info about ukrainian churches all i've seen in the topic is a lot of pictures of polish churches burned by ukrainians.

Speaking of ukrainian church burning!
stowarzyszenieuozun.wroclaw.pl/sniatyn.htm

Some drawings of polish churches burnt and demolished by ukrainians as well as modern view of a once beatifull polish church left deliberately to rot.

Why are we able to see dozens of pictures of ukrainian atrocities, evidence of destroying polish churches and heritage yet not ONE picture of killed ukrainians or a destroyed ukrainian church?

Why in this entire topic all the evidence seems to point towards ukrainians as the ONLY perpetrators? Could it be that the bulk of the blame and guilt lies on the ukrainian side?


When did i insult anyone? Its a bloody lie mate, if anything im one of the most patient posters here.

Thank you, that just made my night. I haven't laughed like that in quite a while :)

Anyway, I will continue tomorrow as I am turning in right now. Goodnight.

>^..^<

M-G (Buona Notte)

Probably inspired by this fact:



Not in Ukraine, but in Poland (during Interbellum). You failed to understand me.


I wasn't talking about Polish-Lithunian Commonwealth period.



What about forceful conversion to Russian Orthodoxy? That must have had an effect on the number of Uniats.


Source: Polish encounters, Russian identity, David L. Ransel, 2005


Source:A history of Ukraine, Paul Robert Magocsi, 1996
However, Ukrainian Uniate church was able to survive in Austrian Galicia.

Well the majority of ukrainians indeed supported the Soviet regime and took active part in its attrocities and furthering its interests so polish claims that ukrainians were bolscheviks were quite correct.