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Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2


convex 20 | 3,978
31 Jan 2010  #151
I will answer you in the thread Polish Myths.

Please spare it, were there Poles in tanks? Yes or no? Did the Romanians tell the Russians to go screw themselves, yes or no? Just take some responsibility, Poland invaded in 1968. That's a far cry from leading the way since WW2...
Ironside 48 | 9,748
31 Jan 2010  #152
Poland invaded in 1968.

you are not ex-military are you?
OP pawian 161 | 9,846
31 Jan 2010  #154
You seem carried away by unnecessary emotions.

Please, cool off and read this thread in full.

Then, go to the thread I suggested and read it in full.

What is that Spiegel-cover about?

The would-be invasion of Poland by Warsaw Pact armies in December 1980. Everything was ready and tanks started warming up their engines, when the order came to cease the operation. Allegedly after US President`s warnings.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,767
31 Jan 2010  #155
The would-be invasion of Poland by Warsaw Pact armies in December 1980.

Erm...Poland was also a member of the Warsaw Pact!

Do you have a link to that event?
OP pawian 161 | 9,846
31 Jan 2010  #156
Do you have a link to that event?

Yes.
wilsoncenter.org/topics/pubs/ACFB35.PDF

Also in Polish. It says what I already mentioned. The Soviet Union called off the troops in the last moment.

mail-archive.com/poland-l@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/msg01221.html

Secretary of the Central Committee Stanislaw Kania speaks to Jan Nowak-Jeziorański on the threat of Soviet military intervention in Poland in December 1980. Despite the differ positions of the two gentelmans when it comes to details, they conclusions are similar. Sufficiently many clear facts confirms that in December 1980 Poland stood very close to the real and direct threat of military intervention. Eloquent cover of the weekly "Der Spiegel "of December 8, 1980 - with a big sign" Aufmarsch gegen Polen " and a big tank with red star invading on the white eagle.

Ironside 48 | 9,748
31 Jan 2010  #157
far from it

Why I'm not suprised?
OP pawian 161 | 9,846
7 Feb 2010  #158
He got hanged, burned, blown up (his foot) and it is cursing somewhere in Sweden
I couldn't be more happy LOL ^^

I have found a film wbout communist police guarding Lenin monument



g
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
8 Feb 2010  #160
SU collapsed only because it was governed too badly. Neither poland nor america has something with this event.

The Soviet Union fell but....................Poland gave the push.
z_darius 14 | 3,969
8 Feb 2010  #161
...

Thanks for this link.
It brought some memories. That song too, almost forgotten. Very strong words. Still valid today.
OP pawian 161 | 9,846
8 Feb 2010  #162
It brought some memories. That song too, almost forgotten. Very strong words. Still valid today.

Which song do you mean? There are two... Both have strong words and both are valid today.

Soviet Union fell but....................Poland gave the push.

It is an understatement. Better to say: a kick in the ass. :):):)
pgtx 29 | 3,159
20 Aug 2010  #163
Ryszard Siwiec:
in Prague:
his street

g

now, he's got an obelisk...

A guard stands next to the black obelisk which was unveiled in front of the Institute for the Study of Totalitarian Regimes in Prague Friday, Aug. 20, 2010. The memorial commemorates Polish teacher Ryszard Siwiec who committed suicide by self-immolation on September 8, 1968, in protest against the 1968 Soviet-led invasion of former Czechoslovakia, in which Poland also participated. Siwiec was the first person to protest against the violent suppression of the Prague Spring reform movement in this way.

in Prague Friday, Aug. 20, 2010
daylife.com/photo/086XdW86kE6Yd?q=Prague
convex 20 | 3,978
20 Aug 2010  #164
his street

Ha, that's about 150m from my favorite bar in Prague, used to walk down it just about every night. Siwiec and Zizkov FTW!
OP pawian 161 | 9,846
31 Aug 2010  #166
Today is the 30th anniversary of signing a pact between striking workers and communist authorities who, instead of shooting at people like before, agreed to fulfill workers` social and political demands, with the right to create free independent trade unions topping the list.

See photos from the strike and other events: https://polishforums.com/history/poland-communism-fell-years-ago-led-35430/
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
31 Aug 2010  #167
First of all, thank you for this impressive collection of pictures, you put up a nice piece of work there and it makes sense what you're saying. In 1980/81 as a schoolkid I followed the proceedings around Solidarity (forgive me for writing the English name) and then it kinda sank away into the annals of history. To my personal surprise they re-surfaced in early 1989 and indeed in June won the elections overwhelmingly.

However, I do have a question: you mention that Poland has led the way since WW2, how should I see this within the context of Hungary 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968, perhaps even Berlin 1953?

I think, but I am not sure that this was what Shelley was aiming at last year when she said that the West sees CZ (the mentioned Spring in Prague) and especially Hungary (not only the Imre Nagy revolt, but also the opening of the border with Austria in the summer of 1989 for waiting East Germans) as torch-bearer in the liberation of Eastern Europe. Don't get me wrong, with this I don't mean any disrespect to Polish efforts in that respect and I personally knew that it was the elections of June 1989 which set the dominoes in motion, but to the general public in the West it always has been Hungary and to a lesser extent Czechoslovakia that pulled the trigger. We didn't get that much news coming out of Poland and for some reason CZ and HU have always been looked upon as most "Westernized" countries, that is, through the general Western eye.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
OP pawian 161 | 9,846
21 Apr 2011  #168
However, I do have a question: you mention that Poland has led the way since WW2, how should I see this within the context of Hungary 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968, perhaps even Berlin 1953?

The events you mentioned were revolutions against communism that caused a lot of ferment in the block and outside, indeed, but lasted too short and got suppressed by communists so successfully that they were never repeated.

Poland, on the contrary, was in constant revolution. The events described in this thread can be grouped in the following way:

Partisan war 1945-1948
Poznan rebellion and end of stalinism 1956
Students and intelligentsia`s protests 1968
Massacre of workers 1970
Workers` protests 1976
Pope`s election and first visit to Poland 1979
Workers` strikes and Solidarity 1980
Martial law and resistance 1981-1988
Strikes and protests 1988
Communism toppled in Poland ahead of all other countries 1989

I think, but I am not sure that this was what Shelley was aiming at last year when she said that the West sees CZ (the mentioned Spring in Prague) and especially Hungary

These events are seen as torch - bearers because both provoked a Soviet intervention on a mass scale. Of course, sth like that couldn`t go unnoticed. :):):)

Ryszard Kowalczyk (born 20 February 1937) and his younger brother Jerzy Kowalczyk (born 1942) - Polish brothers who planted a bomb as a protest against the communist rule in Poland.

The Kowalczyk brothers were scientists at Opole University. They planted a bomb there on 6 October 1971 as a protest specifically against the violence perpetrated by the communist authorities against the workers' protest. A big celebration for the Służba Bezpieczeństwa and Milicja Obywatelska was to take place at the University in the morning of the following day. The big explosion literally destroyed the big university hall where the celebrations were to take place.


f

g

Splinter info on 1980s

An interview with a demonstrator who was intentionally run over by a riot militia truck in 1982:



Photos and videos from martial law 1981
..

1983, the communist police attack people in front of the cathedral, BBC coverage:



Those swines who beat and tear gased people, old women preferably, are probably normal Poles today. In 1981, for perks and priviliges, like flats, cars, higher salaries, they became the defenders of the falling system. Do they feel any remorse today?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 May 2011  #169
I'd doubt it, pawian. If there is a clear justification in their eyes, they'll stick with it. Poland spearheaded many campaigns, as they needed to do because America's fight with communism was primarily focussed elsewhere.
OP pawian 161 | 9,846
25 May 2011  #170
I'd doubt it, pawian. If there is a clear justification in their eyes, they'll stick with it.

Yes, people are able to justify everything, every iniquity they commit, even murder. The secret police guys who murdered priest Popiełuszko still believe deeply it was the right thing to do.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 May 2011  #171
Most Poles I meet tend to have solid moral scruples so we can see how a system demonises them. Hiding behind the cloak of 'the right thing' doesn't cut the mustard/doesn't wash here as murder is virtually indefensible.
OP pawian 161 | 9,846
25 May 2011  #172
Hiding behind the cloak of 'the right thing' doesn't cut the mustard/doesn't wash here as murder is virtually indefensible.

I was too cruel. Some of Popiełuszko`s murderers did feel remorse.

articles.latimes.com/1985-01-06/news/mn-6855_1_chmielewski
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 May 2011  #173
Ah, it was all for the media ;)
OP pawian 161 | 9,846
25 May 2011  #174
I don`t think so. :):) I still remember the communist TV footage of the trial. The guy was really stricken.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
25 May 2011  #175
Well, that neatly ties in with what I said. At heart, the guy had a conscience but regimes make people do God-awful things. Forgiveness is divine but he should have thought more about the consequences of his actions.
OP pawian 161 | 9,846
25 May 2011  #176
At heart, the guy had a conscience but regimes make people do God-awful things.

Exactly. The system rules over people. F..k!

Waldemar Chmielewski, the repentant murderer: Poland murderer

Grzegorz Piotrowski, the hardened murderer:

Piotrowski

Leszek Pękala

The accused:

They are all free today, under new names. God will judge them.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
26 May 2011  #177
Yeah, a regime is just that but murder is murder. The courts had to stamp it out in order to issue a message to those would-be murderers. Fine, jostle for power and position but live and let live.
OP pawian 161 | 9,846
27 Sep 2011  #178
Another wonderful example of Polish objection to communism. I didn`t talk about it too much before.

Friday marks the 35th anniversary of the founding of Poland's Workers' Defence Committee (KOR), a precursor of Solidarity and a beacon for civil rights in 1970s

KOR was founded after a crackdown by the communist government in the summer of 1976. The announcement of a drastic increase in food prices prompted widespread unrest, leading to strikes and open rioting, above all in the south eastern city of Radom, but also in Plock and the Warsaw suburb of Ursus. Several thousand people were arrested, including many bystanders, with fines and prison sentences meted out in large numbers. Many were dismissed from work. A group of intellectuals set about trying to help the repressed and their families - focusing first on legal and financial imperatives.

On 23 September the Workers' Defence Committee was formally established.


1976

d

KOR meetings

d

Hunger strike 1979

s

One more fact not mentioned before:
Today marks the 30th anniversary of an appeal to the workers of Eastern Europe adopted by the 1st Congress of the Solidarity Union in Gdańsk.

The appeal was addressed to the workers in the whole Soviet bloc and expressed support for "all those who decided to embark on the difficult road of struggle for a free labour movement".

Poland party
vato loco - | 15
1 Oct 2011  #179
Excellent chronology of Polish resistance. A big thank you from a non-Polish American from California...
letsbehonest
1 Oct 2011  #180
It was Poles who imprisoned Poles. The fact is, is that the majority of Poles embraced communism after WWII. Led the fight for freedom? What a joke. Whenever Russia wanted to put down a satellite they sent in the Poles (East Germany,1953, Hugary,1956 Czechoslovakia, 1968). The Poles were last to throw off communism, not first.


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