so would prefer if Premier Tusk would act a bit more responsibly, given the critical time.
He's being very responsible IMO. Other politicians have the brief to deal with r*SSia. His brief is promoting democracy in Poland and advocating against authoritarian rule by the current failing regime.
Actually, they can help people realise how many of them disagree to political gangsterism and thievery of PiS rulers.
A good analogy could be 1978 when a Polish cardinal became Pope JPII. In 1979 he visited communist ruled Poland. Millions came to greet him (including me :):):) and became aware of their amazing potential. A year later Solidarity revolt commenced which eventually toppled communism in Poland.
4th June March of Freedom might play a similar role in toppling those loyal heirs of communism, namely PiS.
That's one of the silliest statements I've read here. If anything, the reverse is closer to the truth. The reality is that one is an economic system predicated in fairness and which has never been implemented, and the B other is simple human nature.
And what's wrong with secular humanism? Poland has a centuries old tradition of it.
breaking
Unfortunately or fortunately, eggs never really get broken in Poland by Poles.
Poles are marching through the streets completely oblivious.
You're either very young or yet another tiresome troll.
Not everything revolves around the war in Ukraine. The internal politics of a country need to be addressed. Witch-hunting by PIS in various forms has been going on for too long. They use it partly to distract attention from their incompetence and corruption and partly to work through personal vendettas against those whom they dislike or see as a threat. That kind of politics has no place in a nation working at establishing a fair and democratic system.
That's a good point @jon357 about secular humanism being simple human nature I tend to agree. The comparison I was making with communism, is that secular humanism is atheist and that is also the defining feature of communism, hence the fundamentals are the same and so I think it will develop on a similar path.
So I'm a troll or a very young idiot for suggesting that Premier Tusk (and his supporters) are perhaps focusing too much on undermining the Polish government and are underestimating the severity of things happening in Ukraine and maybe taking Western support for granted too much? This is my view, it differs from yours, if offering an alternative view to yours makes me a troll then so be it.
The language you use is so strong, witch-hunting, incompetence, corruption, personal vendettas, you are just spewing judgement and hate. Nobody is perfect ffs. PiS are doing an ok job considering the scale of the opposition.
Generally no. A secular society doesn't hold any collective position about whether gods exist or don't. Individuals can and do practise religions should they wish. Imposing the beliefs of one or more religions on members of society who don't hold them is quite another matter.
Fortunately Poland is very much a secular and humanistic society (you can even buy trash books by the aggressive atheist Ayn Rand in most Polish cities) despite attempts by various politicians to change that.
atheist and that is also the defining feature of communism
The defining feature of Communism is the abolition of bourgeois property and prevent exploitation of people's labour. It is an economic system and economic systems (with the notable exception of Islamic economics and Christian Socialism) do not have religious aspects whether atheist, theist or deist.
Poland is a mostly free society. It is also a complex developed country and is a society very capable of multitasking. If thousands of people choose to attend a rally to promote democracy, there is room for that and it is very hard to know why you think that has any bearing on Poland's response to r*SSia's invasion of Ukraine.
The defining feature of Communism is the abolition of bourgeois property and prevent exploitation of people's labour
In theory... the reality has never come close to that and mass immiseration and/or mass killings have been the norm in societies that call themselves 'communist'.
We "promote" what exists. Like books. Poland is not a democracy so there is nothing to promote. There are no shades of gray in a true democracy. Either you have it or you don't.
"Democracy" is when the people, through legally binding referenda, directly control what the government does. Voting for a party or party apparatchiks or electing presidents is not "democracy".
the people, through legally binding referenda, directly control what the government does.
You got that idea from me :) You didn't know anything about referendums before I mentioned having them in Ireland and off you went to your research and you discovered Switzerland. You see, you're still learning, despite your determination to atrophy in a sea of misery over impending decline and death. Go on ya good thing!
I was actually going to post that since of course Communism has never been achieved.
mass immiseration and/or mass killings
I suspect far more misery and untimely deaths have been caused in that same period by capitalism and feudalism.
A country, political party, etc., can call itself whatever it likes. Look at PiS who include both law and justice in their party's name yesthave consistently shown scant regard for either.
I wanted to know how effective their referenda are in muzzling their government. The guy (with a nice French accent) gave me that example. If a government aka money-spending addicts can be stopped from stealing money from its citizens...wow... I was impressed.
It looks like Ireland is similar as far as referenda go. I would be proud if I were Irish. I would be even more proud if you didn't let Muslim scum into Ireland but now it's too late to undo the damage.
And is fundamentally not achievable given human nature...
I once said that to a Communist political scientist who disagreed but never really said why. One issue is that its adherents see Marx's (eminently sensible for their time and place) economic theories as unchangeable.
The harm caused by bourgeois property can be mitigated in the short term (and surprisingly easily) however for societies across the world to be more socioeconomically equitable, the forms that can take need careful revisiting as do(in the light of technological progress) the means to achieve it.
And is fundamentally not achievable given human nature.....
I agree....
Any kind of 'ism might work in small, closed groups with members who did consciously chose to live that way!
Every- and anywhere else it becomes a self destructive opression, with the second generation at latest, with people who did not chose to live that way but were born into it, with rebellion/growing antagonism following...like a law of nature, human nature.
its adherents see Marx's (eminently sensible for their time and place) economic theories as unchangeable
He had some socio-historical insights but he was lousy at predicting (unless you change the time scale to thousands rather than tens of years and then only 'maybe').
for many adherents his writings are holy doctrine that one dassn't tamper with rather than insights limited by bias (his own and the place and time he came up with them).
He had some socio-historical insights but he was lousy at predicting
For his time and place, he was spot on. Nevertheless there was so much (like technological leaps) that he couldn't predict and as far as I know he didn't factor in any variables to his analysis of future history.
for many adherents his writings are holy doctrine
They're absolute scripture for some of them. Just as biblical fundamentalists leap through hoops trying to pretend their holy books are inerrant, some of the hardcore non-revisionists are now claiming that Marx was a transhumanist enforce his time (and ours) and that our contemporary understanding is too limited for us to grasp his insight.
There's 10000s of people without drinking water in Ukraine, but don't worry Donald Tusk is organising another march for freedom as we speak! The real enemy is actually PiS you know. Does he even realise there is a war on? Or is his obsession with PiS so deep that he hasn't actually noticed.
But Poles never gave up hope and many times they tried to throw off the communist yoke.
I started this thread exactly 14 years ago.
Today I can admit I created it as a sort of promotion for the Polish nation. Poles in my thread were brave, resolute anti-communists. Decent people. I consciously whitened the image.
Now, when millions of Poles vote for PiS which loves resorting to methods and styles exploited by communists, it is time to tarnish that positive image of Poles.
If communists were able to provide a good standard of life, Poles would never revolt against the system and establish Solidarity in 1980. They would still live happily in a communist country, enjoying their Polish sausages and baby Fiat cars. Communists lost only because there was a painful economic crisis and most people weren`t able to buy good sausage, let alone afford a baby Fiat. Finally they had enough. Solidarity came into being not because Poles rejected communism as a corrupt system. No, many loved it coz they received various benefits and lived off corruption which permeated all spheres of life.
Today PiS is also offering benefits which greatly contribute to high inflation. They break democratic standards, ignore the Constitution and destroy. the rule of law. However, 30% of their voters don`t mind. They think and act like homo sovieticus azholes who would vote for soviet-like communists if they still existed in Poland.
They break democratic standards, ignore the Constitution and destroy. the rule of law.
Explain how, in deital and explain well. IF you are not able to it it means your mind operates like hamster wheel and you are happily chasing your own tail.
Home / History / Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2
