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Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2


legend 3 | 664
4 Jul 2013 #211
Today the West has adopted Cultural Marxism. They thought they had "won" against the Communists, but the politics of Europe is different than in Soviet days.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
6 Jul 2013 #212
Today the West has adopted Cultural Marxism.

You mean this?:

In current politics, the term has also been associated by Conservatives with a set of values that, it is claimed, are in simple contradiction with traditional values of Western society and Christian religion.Undermining these is believed to be the true purpose of Political correctness and Multiculturalism, which are then identified with Cultural Marxism. This use is popular among some right-wing English-speaking political pundits, who see themselves in a cultural war with Marxists they believe to have subverted Western institutions like schools, universities, media, entertainment industry and religion.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,725
6 Jul 2013 #213
Legend, could you perhaps explain what cultural marxism is and how it affects Poland?
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
6 Jul 2013 #214
Legend, could you perhaps explain what cultural marxism is

Wiki above suggest it is connected with multiculturalism and PC.
Poland is adopting multi-culti and that`s good.
Unfortunately, it is also slwoly adopting PC.

In early 1980s Eastern block countries like Czechoslovakia and East Germany barred Polish tourists from entering their countries in fear of having Solidarity opposition "infection" spread there.

Probably, that was a senseless move.

The SED regime deeply feared the outbreak of Solidarity-inspired civil disturbances and strikes in East Germany. The state-controlled news media used a variety of methods to demonize the Polish movement. The East German state security organization, the Stasi, used its vast resources to closely monitor the public's reaction and took decisive measures to crush even the most minor evidence of public sympathy for Solidarity. These were wasteful and unnecessary efforts. The Poles never made any serious effort to export their revolution, nor would the East German public likely have been receptive to it. Many East Germans had lingering prejudices and unresolved historical grievances towards Poles. They deeply feared government and Stasi repression, and were anxious to protect their relatively comfortable, but fragile, quality of life. The Polish example had little appeal for East Germans, largely fixated on West Germany. Even East German dissidents demonstrated little support for Solidarity.

books.google.pl/books/about/East_German_Reactions_to_Poland_s_Solida.html?id=Ch9zAodRQZsC&redir_esc=y
Meathead 5 | 470
3 Aug 2013 #215
It was Poles who imprisoned Poles.

True. This thread is an attempt to absolve Poles of any responsibility for their history. The fact is after WWII Poles embraced communism, if not why didn't they accept the Marshall Plan when it was offered? Poles are totally delusional about their history.

Polish people, you're responsible for Poland, not England, not France, not Russia, not Germany, not Austria, etal.
goofy_the_dog
3 Aug 2013 #216
i think that you are dillusional about ur life, bierut did everything that Stalin ordered.
Who is at British an US traitors and cowards, and ofc Stalin.
instead of writing BS read up, else stop writing posts that are a nonsense.

Pre- Martial Law solidarity was something good... but after it became a tool of commies. Shame.
Kowalski 7 | 621
3 Aug 2013 #217
Robert Kennedy Visits Poland 1964



Ronald Reagan joke
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
3 Aug 2013 #218
This thread is an attempt to absolve Poles of any responsibility for their history.

What??? Don`t be silly.:):) Read the posts again and see that Poles took responsibility for their country and history far more often than other eastern block countries.

Yes, a small group embraced communism and terrorised others who didn`t, but to get to know the mechanism you should read more about it as you seem utterly ignorant. For easy starters, I suggest you read "Animal Farm" by Orwell. You won`t find it too demanding.

Enjoy.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
3 Aug 2013 #219
The fact is after WWII Poles embraced communism, if not why didn't they accept the Marshall Plan when it was offered?

You know nothing! Embraced eh? After the war Poland was a devastated country losing millions of people as well as most of its infrastructure. The Soviet army imposed its will on Poland and Stalin made the decision to refuse the Marshall Plan for Poland. Perhaps history is too difficult for you.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
3 Aug 2013 #220
I think he meant the fact that there were some local communists in Poland after all and that`s why Poland didn`t really lead the fight and we shouldn`t be so proud etc etc...... Very idealistic approach, if I guess it correctly. :):):)

Ronald Reagan joke

Well, a bit funny but most importantly, it pertains to reality of 1980s. :):)

However, Reagan seems to laugh at himself too because he was the one who put sanctions on Poland after martial law was introduced. Communists made a big halo about chickens whose production went down due to American ban on grain export to Poland.

However, Reagan seems to laugh at himself too because he was the one who put sanctions on Poland after martial law was introduced.

Sanctions were lifted in 1987: articles.latimes.com/1987-02-19/news/mn-4550_1_polish-leader. See communist anti Reagan propaganda posters:

Crusade against Poland (communist media loved to present Reagan as a possessed cowboy)

jezuicka13.pl/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/pershing.jpg
50%Polish
30 Aug 2013 #221
Great thread, point me to more of these. Great work Pawian and Co.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
4 Jun 2019 #222
Two days ago, Poles celebrated 20th anniversary of collapse of communism in Poland: concerts, events, festivals. Also, golden plane flew to Brussels with unusual crew.

This old post is from 2009.

10 years have passed. Not wow, but OMG.

Today is the 30th anniversary and the celebrations are more modest and divided into a few seperate ones. Polish society is politically and ideologically divided, PiS government is accused of authoritarian inclinations and their manipulative and lying propaganda reminds of communist times so it is no wonder that decent people don`t want to celebrate together with them.

An interview with Chrish Niedenthal

wiadomosci.onet.pl/politico/wybory-4-czerwca-1989-roku-chris-niedenthal-wspomina-polska-rewolucje/hnt0369

He claims that the world prefers not to remember about the defeat of communism in Poland because it wasn`t as spectacular as in other countries, e.g., the bloody revolution in Romania or tearing the Berlin wall down. The Polish revolution was peaceful as it happened at the ballot box and it was the least exciting object for a photographer.

This is the way that Poland and Chris Niedenthal went through in 1980s


  • Martial law of 1981 - Apocalypse Now

  • First partially free elections on 1989
Ironside 48 | 9,826
4 Jun 2019 #223
PiS government is accused of authoritarian inclinations

By inept politicians who lost an election. You can call them sore losers. The same people who for the last four years have been unable to offer voters some attractive alternative. All they do are slinging mug and accusation. Half wits and cretins. As I say they have no class, no brains and no standards. All they have are big shameless mugs.

the defeat of communism in Poland because it wasn`t as spectacular as in other countries,

Maybe because communism fell but commies slayed pretty much in charge.

decent people don`t want to celebrate together with them.

They are not that decent if they are willing to celebrate with the members of KC PZPR.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,575
4 Jun 2019 #224
PiS government [...] and their manipulative and lying propaganda reminds of communist times

The main celebrations of the 4th of June event will take place in Gdańsk today. On that occasion one of the oppositionists in the PRL Zbigniew Janas talked in Radio ZET this morning about Lech Kaczyński telling him of the talks in Magdalenka and during the so-called Round Table.

- Lech Kaczyński was proud of having taken part in those events, said Zbigniew Janas. If today we talk about Magdalenka in terms of treason, we insult the memory of Lech Kaczyński, he added.

Mr. Janas went on to describe the recent exhibition in the famous BHP room of the former Lenin shipyard in Gdańsk. - Everything on that exhibition led to that "infamous" "Magdalenka treason" - he said. How do you think - whose picture was missing there on the exhibition? - asked Mr. Janas. The picture of Mr. Lech Kaczyński who was taking part in the talks of Magdalenka. That's how history can be falsified and re-written anew - concluded Zbigniew Janas.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that this "manipulative and lying propaganda of the PiS government" you had in mind, Pawian?
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
4 Jun 2019 #225
That's how history can be falsified and re-written anew - concluded Zbigniew Janas.

Yes, it never ceases to amaze me that PiS guys are doing such things. Do they really believe they will rule eternally and nobody will ever know the truth after it is falsified by them today? True neobolsheviks who don`t want to learn from the mistakes of their spiritual guides - communists.
gumishu 11 | 5,017
5 Jun 2019 #226
communists.

maybe according to you Wałęsa was not agent Bolek and Kiszczak archives are a fake - maybe he doesn't lie now about his past - maybe he kept his promise of 100 000 PLZ for every Pole - maybe he was not attempting to gather support among the military to make a virtual putsch and gain all the power - yeah the history was ever so simple for Poland
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
5 Jun 2019 #227
maybe according to you Wałęsa was not agent Bolek

Would an agent dismantle communism like Wałęsa did? It is a fact and nobody can deny it. That why it is so funny when PiS propaganda tries to blacken Wałęsa and replace him with Kaczyński twins as the main contributors to the fall of communism. That`s pathetic.

his promise of 100 000 PLZ, attempting to make a virtual putsch and gain all the power

Those were times when Kaczyńskis were still his important assistants.
Spike31 2 | 884
6 Jun 2019 #228
Would an agent dismantle communism like Wałęsa did?

You're naive Pawian. And being naive is cute when you're a young girl but not an old man living in a countryside.

Communism was trembling. And it was collapsing because of the 10 million strong Solidarity movement. Communists knew that it's not going to hold so they made, so called a "leap forward". The've placed countless agents in the movement and activated "sleepers" like Walesa who was recruited by SB in early 70's.

Those people we're crucial to add legitimacy to the new political order when commies started planning political transformation in Poland. Basically communist wanted two things: to be safe from the revenge of the people and to keep a dominant political and economical position in new Poland.

So to be clear: I bow to the great Solidarity movement but I dispise commie collabolators such as "Bolek" Walesa who sold out the great idea.
Crow 137 | 7,714
6 Jun 2019 #229
Its rather sad that much later brat Walesa was raped at London airport. He turned to be receiver
Miloslaw 6 | 2,364
6 Jun 2019 #230
You're naive Pawian.

That's the second time he has been called that today, so there must be some truth in it :-)
mafketis 21 | 7,388
6 Jun 2019 #231
Wałęsa and replace him with Kaczyński twins as the main contributors to the fall of communism. That`s pathetic.

yes, it's blatant PRL style rewriting of history... despicable!!!!

JK wasn't even detained during martial law... he wasn't a player in the resistance, he was part of what they were resisting against! No wonder he's fine with a PRL prosecutor of dissidents in his government.
Ironside 48 | 9,826
6 Jun 2019 #232
rewriting of history..

... Nah, everybody is doing it.
gumishu 11 | 5,017
6 Jun 2019 #233
Would an agent dismantle communism like Wałęsa did?

so you believe Kiszczak's archive is a fake yes - and guess what Wałęsa never dismantled anything? sam tymy rencamy obalyłem komunę? - maybe he prevented a civil war but that's about it
mafketis 21 | 7,388
6 Jun 2019 #234
maybe he prevented a civil war

said the person who wanted a civil war....
gumishu 11 | 5,017
6 Jun 2019 #235
civil wars are bad for your health

btw I considered voting for Kukiz as a protest vote because of new social policies of PiS (but ended up not going to vote for reasons I would like not to mention here)

I still don't know if I will vote for PiS in the autumn election but I certainly will not vote for PO, SLD, PSL or Wiosna, Korwin is out of question as well for various reasons - I don't have much to choose from
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
6 Jun 2019 #236
Communists knew that it's not going to hold so they made, so called a "leap forward".

Sorry, it is obvious you didn`t live in those times or were still a kid, you only repeat what sb told you but it is grossly falsified. The truth is that communists tried to fight till the end, they counted on a good result on 4th June, when they realised their failure, they still tried to use various tricks to hold power but Wałęsa and his Kaczyńskis aids outsmarted Jaruzelski and Kiszczak and created the Solidarity government.

And being naive is cute when you're a young girl but not an old man living in a countryside.

No, you are naive but I attribute it to your probable young age. I hope with time you will get proper knowledge, but you need to read a lot, and not Konfederacja nationalist bulletins, but serious history publications.

That's the second time he has been called that today, so there must be some truth in it :-)

Sorry, to have your contribution counted as the first time, you need to reach the IQ of 100 at least. Currently it is a bit lower so you don`t qualify. :):)

so you believe Kiszczak's archive is a fake yes

How many documents on Wałesa were "prepared" by secret police? I know of a few. Besides, Wałęsa had contacts with SB only until 1976. Later on he was a fully independent anticommunist activist who led to the collapse of communism - that`s what really counts.
Spike31 2 | 884
6 Jun 2019 #237
@pawian, No wonder you're so aggressive since you may not intelectually fully comprehend it but you've instinctly sensed the danger of such a statement that I've made.

Removing few crucial bricks, like Bolek, from this wall of lies on which IIIrd Republic was build upon will cause its collapse. That's why so many "moral authority figues" are so invlved into defending the old system of beliefs based on "legends" such as Bolek Walesa.

Unfortuanately for them, the process has already started and there's no stopping it.
Miloslaw 6 | 2,364
6 Jun 2019 #238
you need to reach the IQ of 100 at least. Currently it is a bit lower so you don`t qualify. :)

And yet more abuse!
I love it mate!
You are just showing yourself up more and more.
I can take the abuse because firstly, I know it's not true and secondly because it is coming from someone like you.
A leftie libtard.

Keep to the subject of the thread please
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
6 Jun 2019 #239
this wall of lies on which IIIrd Republic was build upon will cause its collapse.

Actually, it is one of wonderful priviliges of youth - abolish the old system. The problem is that youth are too inexperienced to know how to build a new and better system and it is the old who have to do it for them. :):)

Unfortuanately for them, the process has already started and there's no stopping it.

You are too young to remember it laready started in 1990s when Wałesa decided to break up with his old Solidarity mates.


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