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Communism fell 20 years ago, Poland led the fight since WW2


ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
20 Jun 2009 #121
If Americans were stupid, they wouldn`t have won the Cold War with the Soviets.

Don't try to perform our russian stupid fault as american or, God forbid, polish merit. SU collapsed only because it was governed too badly. Neither poland nor america has something with this event.
mets2redsox0 - | 40
20 Jun 2009 #122
Are you as Stupid as you sound? or just Dumb?
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
21 Jun 2009 #123
Well, good pattern of american way of thinking... What did you want to say my little kid. Your sentence is just a senceless exclamation. Well, let's suppose that I am "just dumb", what is then?
mets2redsox0 - | 40
21 Jun 2009 #124
Well, good pattern of american way of thinking...

See that's the Difference, between American's & Russian's, We (American's) Think!, Russian's play follow the Leader!, Comrade!. :-)
southern 75 | 7,096
21 Jun 2009 #125
We (American's) Think!,

If you think so hard and at the end you elect Bush,sth is wrong with this thinking.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
21 Jun 2009 #126
See that's the Difference, between American's & Russian's, We (American's) Think!,

Come on, don't fool yourself, you just think that you Think. Your thoughts are the same as Homer Simpson has.ó
mets2redsox0 - | 40
21 Jun 2009 #127
I am "just dumb", what is then?

I am very glad you asked that, 1, try Reading a History Book Printed Outside of the old "USSR!", 2, ask anyone from Poland, Lithuanian (I myself are 2nd Generation Lithuanian / Irish American) or anyone else Former behind the Old Iron Curtain Country's how they fell about the "USSR!". :-)
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
21 Jun 2009 #128
I am very glad you asked that, 1, try Reading a History Book Printed Outside of the old "USSR!"

Oh please, try to impress me, give me your point of view. Only, please, leave your vain attempts to persude me the you can read Books! It is so incredable. You choice is comics.
mets2redsox0 - | 40
21 Jun 2009 #129
try to impress me,

why?, on God's Green Earth would I want to Impress someone like you?, for god sake!, LOL!!, as my mom use to say, "You can drag a Horse to Water, but, you can't make him Drink!". and that's not Kool-Aid!!!!.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
21 Jun 2009 #130
why?, on God's Green Earth would I want to Impress someone like you?,

Write me a line in private mail please, because it is 02.24 in moscow, and everything we are arguing about here is 100+% offtopic
mets2redsox0 - | 40
21 Jun 2009 #131
Your thoughts are the same as Homer Simpson has.ó

is that the best you can come-up with?.

I'd Rather be "Homer Simpson" then Comrade Putin!!!. :-)

You are 100% off topic, this is the Polish Forum, this Thread is about 20 years of Polish Freedom (from People like YOU!, Comrade!). :-)
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
21 Jun 2009 #132
You are 100% off topic, this is the Polish Forum, this Thread is about 20 years of Polish Freedom (from People like YOU!, Comrade!). :-)

It's amizing you personality managed to comprise all ridiculous the world has.
First, you are american
Second, you have Lithuanian origin
Third, you are Irish...

Who you are? Malicious troll?
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
21 Jun 2009 #133
1988 spring and summer massive strikes helped the communist regime realise certain truth: to avoid an uncontrolled outburst or even a revolution, they need to seek some agreement with Solidarity. Hence, the Round Table talks originated.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Round_Table_Talks

The Polish Round Table Talks took place in Warsaw, Poland from February 6 to April 4, 1989. The government initiated the discussion with the banned trade union Solidarność and other opposition groups in an attempt to defuse growing social unrest. Following the factory strikes of the early 1980s and the subsequent formation of the (then still underground) Solidarity movement under the leadership of Lech Wałęsa the political situation in Poland started relaxing somewhat. Despite an attempt by the government to crack down on the anti-Communist sentiments, the movement had gained too much momentum and it became impossible to hold off change anymore. In addition there was fear of a social explosion due to economic malaise and runaway inflation that had depressed Polish living standards and deepened public anger and frustration. By 1988 the authorities began serious talks with the opposition.

Walesa meets general Kiszczak, Interior Minister, the one who introduced martial law.

Walesa meets general Jaruzelski

The talks:

Walesa Old Poland

Happy opposition leaders with happy communists.

Partying. Everybody was glad that they were able to have a peaceful dispute and agreement instead of civil war.
mets2redsox0 - | 40
21 Jun 2009 #134
[pawian]

I am so Glad to see "we" (the free People of the world) are back on topic, since, this is the Polish Forum, and this Wonderful (less some un-happy Russin's) Thread is about 20 years of Polish Freedom!!!. :-)
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
16 Jul 2009 #135
Semi free elections, June 4th, 1989. Let`s remember, Poland`s neighbours, Czecholsovakia, East Germany, were still fully communist countries with scanty opposition.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_Sejm

Contract Sejm (Polish: Sejm kontraktowy) is a term commonly applied to the Polish Parliament elected in the Polish parliamentary elections of 1989. The contract refers to an agreement reached by the Communist Party and the Solidarity (Solidarność in Polish) movement during the Polish Round Table Agreement. Solidarność became a legitimate and legal political party.

Elections in Poland

Poland elections

Checking results

Elections results in Poland

Solidarnośc office in a cafe.

Poland Solidarity

All Solidarity candidates had a photo with Lech Walesa taken.

Walesa in Poland

Famous posters

Poland poster

Known celebrities took part in Solidarity campaign

Jane Fonda

Fonda in Poland

Rally in Poland

Poland rally

Sticking posters

Political poster POland

We must win

Winning POland

Victory

Poland victory

On the same day, Chinese communist dictators ordered the army to massacre revolted students in Tiananmen Square.

PS. Naturally, I took part in voting. The week before had been very busy, I helped sticking posters all over the area. Then, on the election day, I had a terrific satisfaction crossing out communist candidates, those red stinking *******. Served them well!!!! ;D ;D

The country-wide list comprising the most hardened communists. They were all turned down except for one.

Today commemoration A giant poster on Warsaw skyscraper

Today in Poland

Memorial stone in a Polish town

Cabinet of Tadeusz Mazowiecki, a Solidarity leader, opposition activist, was sworn to office on 12 September 1989. The government comprised both opposition and communist party members. Communists were still too strong to ignore them.

Wiki
During his first parliamentary speech as Prime Minister, Mazowiecki nearly fainted. However, it was not to be an omen of things to come. Mazowiecki's government managed to carry out many fundamental reforms in a short period. The political system was thoroughly changed; a full range of civil freedoms as well as a multi-party system were introduced and the country's emblem and name were changed (from the People's Republic of Poland to the Republic of Poland). On December 29, 1989, the fundamental changes in the Polish Constitution were made. By virtue of these changes, the preamble was deleted, the chapters concerning political and economic forms of government were changed, the chapters concerning trade unions were rewritten and a uniform notion of possession was introduced. Thanks to these changes, the economic transformation was enabled.


f

Mazowiecki gestures triumphantly after the election of his cabinet on September 12, 1989.

f

There`s government! The other Poland comes to power.

f

Poland and Germany - conciliation.

f

A few days ago the 20th anniversary was celebrated. Parliament paid a tribute to old Mazowiecki.

What are the results of the change of the system? Multiple. But most important is the fact that in 1989 Poland`s GNP equaled 30% of European Union`s. Today it is 55% and still growing. GDP per capita came to about $6,000 in 1989 and now is above $17,000,

Poland is the only country in Europe which is going to enjoy an economic growth this year:
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
23 Oct 2009 #136
But you wrote you are a supporter of absolute monarchy.

One is not a stone, mood may change, one day a Smith another day a brown :=)

But im allmost for what Const said about democracy just that I like "noble Democracy" better.

Or more to say "educated democracy"
I wouldn't have anything against experts controlling the experteese.
Let the samrt guys rule, the other scum mob can just go and speak up something in the media and play opressed for what I care.

If just becaouse some huge mob of idiots makes my country volnurable for attacks I would make revolution and even bring socsialism to them for all I care ;(

But as I said I like "Educated Democracy" best, but if it is necessary I would also accept dictatorship. Hopefully not me I would most likely love to be some form of general or allmost highest commander, not THE chief ;)

But if it IS reqired what can one do...
btw Pawian thanks for info was nice reading :=)
mateinone 5 | 58
7 Dec 2009 #137
This is the best thread that I have read on any forum anywhere. Only ruined by the ridiculousness of Constantine. I am not sure why his posts were not just deleted and the thread left to run its course.

You have done a sensational job Powian. I know a fair amount about this time, but there is a lot of information in there that I did not know and it has left me looking up links, chasing up things to read up on later etc.

two thumbs up on an exceptional thread!!
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
7 Dec 2009 #138
two thumbs up on an exceptional thread!!

me 2
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
7 Dec 2009 #139
Thank you for the words of praise. It is nice to know our work is appreciated.

As the main stream of anti-communist movement has already been more or less described, I will focus now on particular events.

The story of Lenin monument in Kraków.

Bombastic Lenin monument erected in Nowa Huta in 1973 was pulled down in 1989 after violent demonstrations during which people tried to destroy it with steel ropes and finally burned it. The police, sent by Solidarity government, protected the monument in fear of Russian Embassy`s reaction and clashed with demonstrators. To avoid further violence, the monument was removed on 10.12.1989, 3 days before the anniversary of martial law.

Earlier, there were more attempts to assassinate Lenin. In 1979, a worker from the nearby Lenin Steel Plant, Andrzej Szewczuwaniec, tried to blow it up with his friends at night. Amateur assassins blew up the job. Lenin only lost his foot, the police didn`t find the perpetrators though the investigation was massive, including students of chemical classes in Krakow high schools.

In 1980s, during the martial law, there were also demonstrations of angry protesters near Lenin monument.

Unveiling

The best of times

Poland communism

Prevention

Burning Lenin in Poland

Lenin was actually hanged.

Ditched Lenin

Today it is in the museum in Sweden.

Empty space in Nowa Huta

Couldn`t they leave Lenin, painted in bright colours, with a baseball cap, and a f*g in his mouth?? Today it would be an unusual attraction in Nowa Huta.

Poles are too emotional. They can`t get rid of historical prejudice. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
8 Dec 2009 #140
Poles are too emotional. They can`t get rid of historical prejudice.

He got hanged, burned, blown up (his foot) and it is cursing somewhere in Sweden
I couldn't be more happy LOL ^^
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
18 Dec 2009 #141
1970 Gdynia massacre anniversary
17.12.2009 16:18

On 17 December, 1970, in Gdynia, communist militia and army opened fire at protesting workers in Gdynia, northern Poland, killing 18 people.

Following yesterday's 28th anniversary of the massacre at the Wujek coal mine, where communist militia opened fire at striking workers, killing 9 and injuring many more, today Poland marks the 39th anniversary of another massacre orchestrated by Poland's communist regime.

It is estimated that in December of 1970 at least 44 people were killed in Gdansk and Gdynia and thousands wounded by communist militia crushing workers' protests. Some sources suggest as many as several hundred might have lost their lives.

Because information was strictly censored, exact numbers of casualties remains a unknown. Communist authorities forged death certificates and families of victims were forced to bury their dead at night, with communist militia guarding them so that nobody found out what happened.

"My son was killed in Gdansk. We arrived at the cemetery at night, I couldn't even see anything. I wanted to take the body, but they wouldn't allow me. So we buried him at night and in the morning we came back to look at the tomb," one mother recalled. (jn)

Seanus 15 | 19,706
19 Dec 2009 #142
I think some post office staff will be petitioning for reverting to the 'good old days' as they seem to be living them now ;) ;)
convex 20 | 3,978
31 Jan 2010 #143
I'm reminded of the fight that took place in '68 in northern Bohemia, can you tell me about that?
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
31 Jan 2010 #144
You mean Prague Spring in general? Wiki offers fair description: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring
convex 20 | 3,978
31 Jan 2010 #145
Yeah, you know....Poles in tanks...leading the fight since WW2...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,836
31 Jan 2010 #146
...
On the night of 20-21 August 1968, Eastern Bloc armies from four Warsaw Pact countries — the Soviet Union, Bulgaria, Poland and Hungary—invaded the ČSSR.[35][36]

Note, no Germans! ....this time.... ;)

...
That night, 200,000 Warsaw Pact troops and 2,000 tanks entered the country.[37] The troops first occupied the Ruzyně International Airport, where air deployment of more troops was arranged.
The Czechoslovak forces were confined to their own barracks and were surrounded until the threat of a counter-attack was assuaged. By the morning of 21 August Czechoslovakia was occupied.[36]

OP pawian 161 | 9,971
31 Jan 2010 #147
East Germans. armed to their teeth, were ready and willing to invade too. Normal. However, they were grounded by Soviet Union leaders who didn`t want to make the situation worse. Instead, neutral Poles were sent. :):)

OK, I admit, that is a joke. :):):)
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,836
31 Jan 2010 #148
Well, I don't think it's so far off....a plausible scenario. WWII was not that far back then...
OP pawian 161 | 9,971
31 Jan 2010 #149
Yeah, you know....Poles in tanks...leading the fight since WW2...

I will answer you in the thread about Polish Myths.


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