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Chance of Lwów once again became coming part of Poland


Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Aug 2011 #151
Great post, no 151.

Delph, how would you like it if scores of English flooded our beloved Scottish islands and called themselves, I dunno, Skyers or the Ionese?? They'd still be English, not Skyers or Ionese. Can't you see that?

The commonality with the thread is land grab. I echo the sentiments of the gentleman from Kiev. Do Poles really want Lithuanians, Belarussians and Ukrainians to turn against them when many clearly enjoy spending time with one another? Place too much emphasis on land and you are no better than Russia.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
15 Aug 2011 #152
Do Poles really want Lithuanians, Belarussians and Ukrainians to turn against

Is that a general question?
I will answer in kind; Poles do not care one way or the other, so for Lithuanians are chauvinistic fascists anti-Poles , Belorussian are unknown, and Ukrainians jugging by their history books are not promising.

Lets talk about what is right, I promise you that most Poles would be for Poland regaining here territories, they only object because they think that such a move is impossible.

Typical negativity you mentioned in you new thread.

As for post 151 - written by strung up kid !What friendship ? in declarations ?phew!
den_fcdk - | 28
15 Aug 2011 #153
2 ironside
so emotional.
have you ever been to Ukraine?
who are you? internet is a place to communicate with strange nick-names.
life is real.
i am 29. i live in Kyiv - the capital of Ukraine.
i ve been to your country, Poland.
i ve met the Poles in Ukraine, in Poland & abroad.
i had NO problems! we had GREAT time!
THAT s what i call FRIENDSHIP.
not declarations.
be more open.
think positive.
LIFE is great!
MyMom 6 | 137
15 Aug 2011 #154
be more open.
think positive.
LIFE is great!

That's exactly what our message will be after we regain Wołyń and Galicja Wschodnia. Well, we can give you half of Wołyń as a sign of good will, but Stanisławów and Tarnopol must return to Poland.
den_fcdk - | 28
15 Aug 2011 #155
what to say?
you choose the way you live.
pawian 177 | 14,595
15 Aug 2011 #156
=Ironside]I promise you that most Poles would be for Poland regaining here territories,

Liar, liar!!

:):):)
Ironside 50 | 10,907
15 Aug 2011 #157
not declarations.
be more open.
think positive.
LIFE is great!

If you are 29 you should know that getting along fine with individuals differ from getting along as states.
I'm getting along splendidly with Germans or Russians on individual basis - so what ?
And no I'm not emotional - that the way I post here sometimes :)[
quote=den_fcdk]have you ever been to Ukraine?[/quote]
Not really only to Lwow and the area !

quote=delphiandomine]Was it because - as in Russia - the larger the territory, the more power they had?
[/quote]
no, you are wrong here, that attitude changed in time, first people were important and centers of merchandise, latter XVII/XVIII it all become a quest for land.

The present ukrainian land was populated from Poland by Poles. During 100 years from 1569 to 1648 !

Start by reading about the Targowica Confederation - you'll understand why they sold out to Russia.

nope, you are wrong again - that was a normal practice of powerful aristocratic houses - but this time it went wrong due to inteernaL power shift on the Katherine II court and Prussia's intrigue and pressure.

POLAND become a dependent country in 1701 (dependent on Russia).
MyMom 6 | 137
15 Aug 2011 #158
"have you ever been to Ukraine?"
Not really only to Lwow and the area !

:)

MediaWatch : regarding your statement about Polish population not being large enough - there are still Poles living in Kazachstan, Ukraine, Russia. We could also get those from Brazil and Argentina, who are often impoverished and would gladly come here. Some of the economic emigrants from USA, Germany and UK would probably want to settle in the regained territories as well. Those regained areas would quickly become the cultural center of Poland.
den_fcdk - | 28
15 Aug 2011 #159
2 ironside
I was talking about PEOPLE (individuals), not states! That s FAR more important.
By the way, with our former President you (Poland & the Poles) got very good press here.
And the attitude to the Poles is not bad in Ukraine.
But "Lviv question" is not even a question in Ukraine!
Lviv is Ukraine. No discussion.
pawian 177 | 14,595
15 Aug 2011 #160
You, the Poles, have mostly good attitude here in Ukraine.

Yes, we know about it. :):):)

Crazy nationalists are everywhere, not only in Poland, also in Ukraine, but we live with it.
den_fcdk - | 28
15 Aug 2011 #161
Have to go now.
Have a nice day!
До побачення! )
pawian 177 | 14,595
15 Aug 2011 #162
It was a pleasure talking to you. :):):)
MyMom 6 | 137
15 Aug 2011 #163
By the way, with our former President you (Poland & the Poles) got very good press here.

That's why he gave Stepan Bandera the title of the hero of Ukraine?
As I recall it was the present Ukrainian president who objected to call that fascist and chief UPA ideologist a hero.
pawian 177 | 14,595
15 Aug 2011 #164
These history issues can be so fregging twisted here and there.
hubabuba - | 113
15 Aug 2011 #165
what is so twisted about it?
Palivec - | 380
15 Aug 2011 #166
Cool, a second "Generalplan Ost".
Ironside 50 | 10,907
15 Aug 2011 #167
And the attitude to the Poles is not bad in Ukraine.
But "Lviv question" is not even a question in Ukraine!
Lviv is Ukraine. No discussion.

I think that you are misinformed about attitude to Poles, in Lwow attitude is not that positive. Well, maybe you are talking about individuals, not government or local government.

I think that getting along on individual basis should be reflected somehow in official interplay between states - otherwise what is the point?.
I know that in Ukraine possession of Lwow is not questioned but it should.
No discussion - you mean - there is nothing to discuss?
I understand - but so far nobody is saying anything or discussed that with Ukraine representatives. This is only exchange of opinions on internet forum.

Cool, a second "Generalplan Ost".

pawian 177 | 14,595
15 Aug 2011 #168
MediaWatch : there are still Poles living in Kazachstan, Ukraine, Russia.

Yes:

We could also get those from Brazil and Argentina, who are often impoverished and would gladly come here.

Exactly.

Pic

Some of the economic emigrants from USA, Germany and UK would probably want to settle in the regained territories as well.

Sure.

Season in Poland

Those regained areas would quickly become the cultural center of Poland.

Definitely. Especially artistic tapestries:
Ironside 50 | 10,907
15 Aug 2011 #169
At lest I'm on topic baboon, you should know by now that on PF it is fundamental. You and that mate of yours P are off-topic :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Aug 2011 #170
Slavic nations have a history of elevating hardline individuals to prominence. Look at Mladić, Piłsudski and Bandera. Let's not even speak of The Soviet Union in its day. Look to their good sides and not to their nationalism.

We live in different times. Tusk will not rock the boat on this one.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
15 Aug 2011 #171
America also had a time zone in Germany (West Germany) as did Russia (East Germany) but can you guess who the Germans preferred having in their country? The Americans or the Russians?

You do realise that nowadays, there's quite a lot of sympathy towards DDR days in the East? Quite a lot of people are not too happy at how reunification turned out - especially given that most East Germans were kicked out of their jobs and replaced with reliable Westerners.

Yes why isn’t Kosovo returned to Serbia?

Because the Serbs chose to turn their back on the arrangement where Kosovo was a self governing province and decided to try and force them into submission instead?

Pretty simple, that one.

Part of the reason why Kosovo was seized from Serbia was because it was flooded with non-Serbs.

You do realise that they were there all along? Nothing "flooded" about it.

Russia is unique when you just look at the raw size of the country in proportion to the amount of Russians living in it. How can a nation be that greedy for territory? No other nation comes close to having that greed for territory in proportion to its population.

Wrong. Just plain wrong - do you actually check your facts before posting this stuff?

Let's see - let's go by population density. That's a fair measure of how big a country in proportion to how many people are living there. It can be measured in terms of the amount of square metres per person. We'll also choose only independent countries.

In first place - Mongolia with a population density of 1.7 square metres per person.
In second place - Namibia - 2.6.
In third place - Australia - 3.0

In fact, you have to go as far as 14th place to find Russia. Seems to me that your statistics are, just like your argument, utterly flawed.

Seems to me that you're willing to believe anything just to satisfy your need for EVIL RUSSIA - are you addicted to this kind of thing?

now Russian “peacekeepers” in parts of Georgia which Russia is now seizing for itself.

You do realise that Georgia never had control of the territory of which they claim?
den_fcdk - | 28
15 Aug 2011 #172
I don t want to touch the tragic moments of our history now.
The Poles & the Ukrainians were very far from being close nations.
I understand.
About Yuschenko: he really did much to make our nations closer!
Trust me, i live here & i can assure you that he used Poland & the Poles as an example for us in many aspects!

But let s talk not about governments, but about real people.
As i said, we DON T know each other well enough.
Not many Ukrainians visit Poland and vica versa.
I love visiting Lviv (the last time - this March). People there have very good attitute to tourists from any country.
If you come with peace you shouldn t have any problems.
If not - you should be ready for unpleasant things. That s also true.

P.S. That s really just i-net opinions exchange. But that s also a way to learn what the other side thinks.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Aug 2011 #173
Yushenko, yes he did. He came together with Lech Kaczyński RIP as a gesture of solidarity to forgive past massacres. I have a lot of respect for your ex-President in this respect, den
den_fcdk - | 28
15 Aug 2011 #174
i agree.
He was far from being perfect Pres., but he did a lot of good things for Ukraine.
And we started looking at Poland as a friendly nation. Learning sthg from you.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Aug 2011 #175
I'm Scottish, btw. While I have many positive connections here in Poland, I like to be as objective as I can (raises an invisible shot glass with Nemiroff) :)

Lviv is a city I'd like to visit one day.
den_fcdk - | 28
15 Aug 2011 #176
))))))) About Nemiroff ))))))
That s really pleasant!
I knew some Celtic-supporter)
Are you from Rangers-side?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Aug 2011 #177
Neither Celtic nor Rangers :) I am from Aberdeen.

What famous things have come from Lviv, den? I know the group Nokturnal Mortum are from Kharkiv but what's from the west of Ukraine?
den_fcdk - | 28
15 Aug 2011 #178
)) Oh! You played vs Dnipro!
Western Ukraine is famous with the Carpathian mountains (i just love it!), old castles, kind and very patriotic people.
There you can feel real Ukrainian spirit.
Lviv is really "the must-see" in Ukraine! Old town with lots of unique buildings, cafes with amazing cofee and extra-tasty desserts.
+ Lviv beer is nice)))
Btw the prices are low there;)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Aug 2011 #179
Uwełbiam Lwowskie piwo :) I love beer from Lviv :) 1715 is from there, right? :) What about Obolon and Magnat? I love them too. I can see why the Poles would like Lviv back but don't worry, I'll tell them that there is a pub here with many Ukrainian beers ;) ;)

Yeah, I think that's my next trip.
den_fcdk - | 28
15 Aug 2011 #180
Oh! Lvivske is tasty! I prefer "Galicka korona" - also from Lviv.
Obolon is Kyiv-brewery (also nice). Magnat is their TM.
I like it also because it s Ukrainian brewery, not trans-national like many others here.
Hey! If you want to visit Kyiv on your way to Lviv - let s drink couple of glasses! )


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